TTY: New Morrissey T-shirt

- OLink from an anonymous person:

New Morrissey T-shirt - true-to-you.net
15 March 2017



Available at forthcoming Morrissey shows in North America.
Also available on Mporium.


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Comments

A

Anonymous

Guest
Don't forget the statement about how Obama is white on the inside. That seems significant if we are going to decode this.
I don't think it's racist in an obvious way but it does trivialize what it means to be black as opposed to "feeling black." Johnny Cash "the Man in Black" would have been a better choice but his estate no doubt has better lawyers and someone would have had to be paid for use of the image. Also it would have avoided this "is he or isn't he" question that Morrissey seems to thrive on.
We read a lot about cultural appropriation, white people taking aspects of other cultures that they can market and capitalizing on them, profiting from other peoples' pain and suffering. Sometimes it's a tribute or a raising of awareness but it's often just an example of privilege. This is the vulgar commercial aspect.
On the other hand there is a artistic aspect. The same word "appropriation" is used in art. One famous artist whose work most of us know who used appropriation was Marcel Duchamp. It means to take an object and place it in a new context, generally to see it in a different way. Using an already existing urinal as a sculpture was one of his famous concepts.
I'm going to say that this t-shirt has aspects of both the commercial and the artistic, and that it does function as art in a sense just based on the fact that it will cause discussion and consideration of the subject. I happen to feel that it is "tone-deaf" and I wouldn't wear it. I think that the trivializing of the black experience outweighs the artistic merits. The fact that this image is being used on a commercial product figures in to that. Also, I like the song "Unlovable" but I'm not sure that line qualifies as "art" and I don't think it's one of his better lines. This almost seems like something "Lil Sammy" would come up with for one of his horrible abuses of photoshop.

But that's my opinion and the fact that other opinions can exist and be argued makes it as least somewhat legit. It's kind of ridiculous to call it "racist" but I do think that if you're going to defend it you should consider the different aspects of it. I wouldn't wear it to the Compton Swap Meet but you're probably safe at the Malibu Farmers Market.
Personally I think people make to much of cultural appropriation. If I see a style I like I'll copy it. If I can make money on selling tattoos in Chinese lettering I would. I can see your point about trivializing the black experience, which it seems like a lot of white people can only view as some hellish existence with no positives at all, but I don't think a lot of black people would really care or even see it that way. I don't think the black community is so absolutely precious about the black experience that the majority would get upset at a trivial joke. I live in Baltimore city, not Compton but still a city with a large black population, and I would bet money that if I wore this shirt for a day or week or whatever no black person would object. I would guess most would ask what it means and would not be bothered by the explanation that he's a singer and this is one of his favorite authors so he made a joke out of one of his lines and put it next to his image. I would also guess that those who would object would be the majority of the art students attending mica the majority of whom are white and privileged objecting out of a need to reinforce there own identity. It would be worth trying out I think
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
I am sick and tired of the many, many people trying to tag Moz as racist.
If any person expresses his admiration and love for many black artists, just recentlly also for the other James (Brown) and in such pointedly, emotional words as for James Baldwin, I can't believe he is racist. And as much as I would try, it is impossible for me.

With the T-shirt he is merely drawing attention to James Baldwin.
Of course his name is on that shirt too. If it wasn't the attention would probably be less.
I don't see any wrong in that.
It actually says, I approve, admire and love James Baldwin.
I didn't and don't know enough about the writer and his books.
But I'm interested and will read them.

Could it be that is what Moz would like more people to do?
Am I just naive and how much would he earn anyway from it?
Can't be that substantial.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It would've been better with Moz and a black male postcoital cuddling, with black man's arms around Mozzer.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
Don't forget the statement about how Obama is white on the inside. That seems significant if we are going to decode this.
I don't think it's racist in an obvious way but it does trivialize what it means to be black as opposed to "feeling black." Johnny Cash "the Man in Black" would have been a better choice but his estate no doubt has better lawyers and someone would have had to be paid for use of the image. Also it would have avoided this "is he or isn't he" question that Morrissey seems to thrive on.
We read a lot about cultural appropriation, white people taking aspects of other cultures that they can market and capitalizing on them, profiting from other peoples' pain and suffering. Sometimes it's a tribute or a raising of awareness but it's often just an example of privilege. This is the vulgar commercial aspect.
On the other hand there is a artistic aspect. The same word "appropriation" is used in art. One famous artist whose work most of us know who used appropriation was Marcel Duchamp. It means to take an object and place it in a new context, generally to see it in a different way. Using an already existing urinal as a sculpture was one of his famous concepts.
I'm going to say that this t-shirt has aspects of both the commercial and the artistic, and that it does function as art in a sense just based on the fact that it will cause discussion and consideration of the subject. I happen to feel that it is "tone-deaf" and I wouldn't wear it. I think that the trivializing of the black experience outweighs the artistic merits. The fact that this image is being used on a commercial product figures in to that. Also, I like the song "Unlovable" but I'm not sure that line qualifies as "art" and I don't think it's one of his better lines. This almost seems like something "Lil Sammy" would come up with for one of his horrible abuses of photoshop.

But that's my opinion and the fact that other opinions can exist and be argued makes it as least somewhat legit. It's kind of ridiculous to call it "racist" but I do think that if you're going to defend it you should consider the different aspects of it. I wouldn't wear it to the Compton Swap Meet but you're probably safe at the Malibu Farmers Market.
Very good, thank you

I concur, "I think that the trivializing of the black experience outweighs the artistic merits".
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Very good, thank you

I concur, "I think that the trivializing of the black experience outweighs the artistic merits".
But No1uno, as I know you can see very good through the trivializing of the black experience, I'd say the artistic merits outweighs that trivializing.
Can you think of anything that isn't trivialized, in the world of now?
At least it draws some attention to a writer he loves and admires.
I think it is important to him in that way.
Cheers
 
G

Gerhard Richter

Guest
I am sick and tired of the many, many people trying to tag Moz as racist.
If any person expresses his admiration and love for many black artists, just recentlly also for the other James (Brown) and in such pointedly, emotional words as for James Baldwin, I can't believe he is racist. And as much as I would try, it is impossible for me.

With the T-shirt he is merely drawing attention to James Baldwin.
Of course his name is on that shirt too.
If it wasn't the attention would probably be less.
I don't see any wrong in that.
It actually says, I approve, admire and love James Baldwin.
I didn't and don't know enough about the writer and his books.
But I'm interested and will read them.

Could it be that is what Moz would like more people to do?
Am I just naive and how much would he earn anyway from it?
Can't be that substantial.
No he isn't really drawing attention to James Baldwin. You say Morrissey's name is on the shirt, too, which implies the name "James Baldwin" is on the shirt, but it's not.
Maybe a better way to do this would have been to have the photo of James Baldwin without the lyric. In the same way the photos of Elvis, Joe Dallesandro, and others have been used by Morrissey in the past, he could have simply added James Baldwin to the gallery of icons, and that would have been completely respectful. Putting the lyric with it is the problem, not putting "Morrissey" on the photo.

I don't think he's going to earn much from this shirt, although probably more now that this will make it a collectible. Maybe he is donating the money anyway. His portion of the profits, once the rights to use the photo are secured, is his to do what he wants with.

The publicity is worth more than the sales from the shirt. Reminding people that Morrissey exists so that when they're on iTunes they might download "Everyday Is Like Sunday" is probably more the point. Remember that first and foremost Morrissey is not a singer but a public figure. Many more people know his name and have an opinion on him than can name three songs or sing one. And he maintains this status as a known public figure not by enticing the public but by trolling them. So don't be mad. It's all part of the troll plan.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
No he isn't really drawing attention to James Baldwin. You say Morrissey's name is on the shirt, too, which implies the name "James Baldwin" is on the shirt, but it's not.
Maybe a better way to do this would have been to have the photo of James Baldwin without the lyric. In the same way the photos of Elvis, Joe Dallesandro, and others have been used by Morrissey in the past, he could have simply added James Baldwin to the gallery of icons, and that would have been completely respectful. Putting the lyric with it is the problem, not putting "Morrissey" on the photo.

I don't think he's going to earn much from this shirt, although probably more now that this will make it a collectible. Maybe he is donating the money anyway. His portion of the profits, once the rights to use the photo are secured, is his to do what he wants with.

The publicity is worth more than the sales from the shirt. Reminding people that Morrissey exists so that when they're on iTunes they might download "Everyday Is Like Sunday" is probably more the point. Remember that first and foremost Morrissey is not a singer but a public figure. Many more people know his name and have an opinion on him than can name three songs or sing one. And he maintains this status as a known public figure not by enticing the public but by trolling them. So don't be mad. It's all part of the troll plan.
Thank you for your interesting insight. :thumb:
I agree with you, his name should be at the shirt.
And after " inside" it could read (Moz) in brackets.

I see your points about the public figure and the way it can be seen as a goal to keep his name in the public.
I'm not very keen on that.
But, to me it all keeps being secondary, not unimportant but secondary to his music, his lyrics and his concerts.
And when he comes up with a great album, as WPINOYB was I don't care.
I still can't see any racist motives here, on the contrary.
Cheers!
 

King Leer

Leering since '97
Shirt is fine, not racist. Christ...
A Sam design? Riffs on Dagenham Dave single typography.

Would've been better if it were:
"I wear Baldwin on the outside 'cause Baldwin is how I feel on the inside."

Smiths fans would have fun spotting the lyric change. Others might wonder who this "Baldwin" character Moz admires is and look him up. Avoid bs calls of racism etc.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Shirt is fine, not racist. Christ...
A Sam design? Riffs on Dagenham Dave single typography.

Would've been better if it were:
"I wear Baldwin on the outside 'cause Baldwin is how I feel on the inside."

Smiths fans would have fun spotting the lyric change. Others might wonder who this "Baldwin" character Moz admires is and look him up. Avoid bs calls of racism etc.
Very good King Leer!
Cheers
 

kissmyshadestoo

Cheeky Defendant
I wish someone would take the reins on his and The Smiths, marketing, publicity, etc.

The Smiths "official" Twitter feed is live yet sits dormant with ZERO posts. I think the band could make a ton of $ selling t-shirts, merchandise, etc., but the don't seem interested. My. 02, that shirt is horrible.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
"Artists are here to disturb the peace." James Baldwin

Maybe it's time for some Moz 'experts' to study Baldwin's work a bit closer to find his influence on Moz instead of moan about a stupid t-shirt.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's not racist I don't think but then I'm not black .
The worst thing in the world is white cunts telling blacks what's racist and what's not or white cunts saying " he's not a real black " about Obama It's white privilege gone insane .
This t-shirt sucks balls big time,if people can't see why someone maybe offended then they are stupid.
This using of Baldwin , Public Enemy and Bruce Lee is rather new, last few years, as far as i can tell . I used to see all this stuff on a certajn Brighton moz lookalikes page back in the day , suddenly moz starts name checking , using back drops etc ( are they mates ?).
I expect Sam designed this , he isnt too clever that one, it reeks of him actually. He's such a dumb ass .
I agree with King Lear he should have used the " I wear James Baldwin on the outside.." or " i cant help quoting you because everything you say rings true " .
 

celibate

Forever Ill
if Morrissey waves with the brittish flag, the papers called him racist

Now a t shirt of afro american whose a writer, and again they blame him for a rascist

I think people who judge him for that, are rascist themselves

:rock:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I wish someone would take the reins on his and The Smiths, marketing, publicity, etc.
I think the band could make a ton of $ selling t-shirts, merchandise, etc., but the don't seem interested.
I presumed that the band were mired in so many legal disagreements, that up to now official Smiths T-shirts have been simply impossible. Morrissey is happy taking Smiths era lyrics and song titles (which fair enough, he came up with) and plastering them over solo merch so he rakes in 100% of the profits. I find it hard to believe he would want to let the others get a slice of that lucrative pie.
 

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