Tony Visconti says he wouldn't mind working with Morrissey again; not in touch - Irish Times

Tony Visconti: ‘The thing with Phil Lynott was that he was visibly dying’ - The Irish Times
The veteran record producer on Bowie, Morrissey and his problem with Steve Albini

Excerpt:

Morrissey’s great knack
Speaking of Morrissey, Visconti worked on his 2005 album, Ringleader of the Tormentors. Does he intend to work with the prickly Mancunian-Irish singer again? “I wouldn’t mind working with him again, and I’m very proud of the album we did, but we are not in touch,” he says. “I don’t know. He’s off on something else. That’s all I can really say. He has a knack of pushing people away from him. It’s the way he lives his life."

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Visconti is a great producer, but terrible at actual production. I think his mastering skills over the past 15 years or so are atrocious. Ringleader sounds terrible because of the excessive compression used on the album. There are no dynamics or separation, everything is just "loud." Take a look at the waveform of the first track, it's almost a solid brick with no peaks or valleys. The entire album is like that. If there's ever a need for a remaster, Ringleader needs one desperately, hopefully without Tony in the room. He did the same thing with Bowie's Heathen and Reality, both are overly compressed and sound awful as a result.

to me Reality and Heathen doesn't sound squished by modern standards, I agree ROTT was slammed you can hear the distortion in the low end especially.

I believe mastering was done by Emily Lazar not Visconti.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Lazar

I don't know who agreed that the mastering was good enough Morrissey or Visconti? Maybe Visconti thought that if Morrissey likes it that way 'loud' than the record is finished. Since Morrissey is the boss.


I don't believe that Visconti mastered any record, he is a producer,mixer,engineer,musician,arranger. Correct me if I'm wrong, it would be news to me.

 

[SuedeMoz]

nondisclosure agreements.

An NDA saying that someone can't share any personal experiences, stories or opinion of working with Morrissey? If such an NDA existed, I can't see how it could ever be enforced.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Never mind all the bitching from various people on Facebook, Twitter etcetera. I know Tony Visconti took part in it. Defending his fiancée.

But the fact remains they worked together very well for Ringleader and despite some flaws in the sound quality or the mix there were at least four or five great songs on it and both inspired each other and were inspired by the co-operation. I mean musically and no shortage on ideas.

I think Tony Visconti is a great producer and a very professional one.

You never know what is going to happen and if for whatever reason Moz has a fallout with his producer and gets into serious scheduling problems with a release date of a new album and he hasn’t a quick solution, I wouldn’t be surprised if he called Tony Visconti.

Remember how he stated himself in the side notes of the the re-issued Southpaw Grammar he went sheepishly back to Steve Lillywhite after Brian Eno and Chris Thomas declined?

This is the possible option Tony Visconti keeps open.
He knows these things happen.

By the way, did Moz himself say anything denigrating about Visconti after the so-called fallout?

Only people from camp Moz did, and Kristeen Young and TV defending her more or less, if I am correct so in a way Moz has not ruled out a possible co-operation in the future as he knows just as Visconti they both could need each other.

Did we actually see the words coming from his mouth he would never work again with Tony Visconti?

Moz gets away with everything.

'This is the possible option Tony Visconti keeps open.
He knows these things happen.'

agree, Visconti knows the game, folks must remember that even Bowie and Visconti had one or two fall outs with each other, but eventually got back together to work.


Steve Albini is a bit over rated. Some bands seem to want to work with him for the 'cool factor' without actually knowing what they're asking for. Do love some of his work, and he has quite the individual vision as far as what he wants concerning sound. Can't see him working with M, would be mutual.

 

[TheYoungest]

Yes, but if the mix that was handed over to the mastering engineer already had limited dynamic range, there's not much they can do about it. From what Tony Visconti has said about his production approach (eg. in this book) it's highly likely this is what happened.

 

[Oh my]

'
Steve Albini is a bit over rated. Some bands seem to want to work with him for the 'cool factor' without actually knowing what they're asking for. Do love some of his work, and he has quite the individual vision as far as what he wants concerning sound. Can't see him working with M, would be mutual.

Exactly!!! I don't know if he is overrated or not, but his skill is making things sound like a hellish noise... and his priority is the raw sound of the band and the singer's voice covered by layers and layers of mayhem. It works very well for some bands... but with Morrissey? It would be a terrible idea. I can only imagine the result as something that sounds like Whitehouse.

 

[Morrissey-so-old.com]

There was some idiot on here awhile back and they quoted Morrissey when he said he was a human sexual one of the topic posts not to long ago, well the truth is he’s not, he’s just a plain asshole, this is a man who came on the Jonathan Ross show and said he doesn’t like people, so you can take that human sexual quote and toss it out the window. Visconti is a good music producer Ring leaders of the tormentors was probably Morrissey’s last good album everything after that has been utter shit. To the people who will put me as a troll and defend Morrissey and his bullshit let me get ahead of you tell you to go f*** yourself. Now have a great day f***ing yourself.

 

[Morrissey-so-old.com]

Ringleader does hold up very well. I remember not being too thrilled about it when it first arrived but in retrospect I think its a better album than Quarry and Refusal.

I've also read a few rumors over the years that Alain Whyte, who played guitars at the sessions, was reportedly upset at the finished mix of the album. Was the original plan for Alain to be a bit more upfront in the mix? His guitars are barely audible on Ringleader since the mixing is very heavily biased towards Jesse. Don't know the whole story about that one.

f*** Jesse I’ll take Alain over his dumbass any day.

 

[Morrissey-so-old.com]

Ringleader gets a bad rep but I loved it when it comes out. So more cohesive and subtle than Quarry. I am instantly taken back to 2006 when I listen to it. Gunning down to Cornwall while ‘in the future’ played on the radio is a great memory

Ringleaders was a good album I liked it better then Quarry. Quarry was an album of songs written over a few years time period the songs were written and played live way before they were put on album that’s why when you listen to Quarry you don’t get a certain style of how the songs sound where you do with ringleaders with the Italian theme to it. You can tell with certain albums with Morrissey and even the Smiths were they’re songs that were written over a period of time and then put together for an album compared to when they stayed in studio and hammered out the album all at once.

 

[Pokey]

Hopefully not, ROTT is about the worst produced album of Moz's career

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

They might have mastered it, but Victonti has final approval over the mix. It leaves his hands last. I doubt very much Shearer and Lazar were responsible for the over compression of the album, as that's consistent with Visconti's work on other albums. It's pretty much his trademark at this point. Take a look at the opening track from Bowie's Reality, also produced by Visconti, very similar to the compression on Ringleader. It's a pattern on everything he's produced in the past 15 years, even the recent Bowie re-issues, sadly.

I'd love to hear an uncompressed, or lightly compressed version of Ringleader. I have a feeling the original mix would sound light years better.

The mix comes before the master though so no, it doesn't leave his hands last. Records almost always have a different mastering engineer to the producer because they will listen to the record with a fresh prospective and so pick up on anything that needs to be picked up on. The mastering engineer should be embelishing what has been produced rather than over turning it though. The overall sound is no doubt the choice of Visconti but the mastering has nothing to do with him, the purpose of that is to make the record sit properly on all systems to a general audience and possibly like the last album, stand out on good audio systems. Either way the waveforms that you talk about are the work of the mastering rather than production and the compression that you're talking about isn't done individually to each track but to the whole - hence mastering.

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly!!! I don't know if he is overrated or not, but his skill is making things sound like a hellish noise... and his priority is the raw sound of the band and the singer's voice covered by layers and layers of mayhem. It works very well for some bands... but with Morrissey? It would be a terrible idea. I can only imagine the result as something that sounds like Whitehouse.

He is concerned with the raw sound of the band but if there’s mayhem involved it’s because of the band he’s recording. Jarvis didn’t bring it but the album sounds fine



From Albini

“Ive recorded 1,500 to 2,000 records, and I know they are all quite different," protests Albini. "I've recorded acoustic albums hundreds of times, with acoustic guitars or strings, and so on. I can name hundreds of bands that I've recorded that have a completely different aesthetic than grunge. And I don't impose my taste on the bands I record. To me. it's ridiculous to say that my records have a 'sound'. I can understand why someone who has only heard three or four records I have worked on that are stylistically similar can make such a statement, but I think it is wrong."

A neat article. I also think he takes a flat fee and doesn’t want his name attached to the record which an artist might appreciate

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/steve-albini

 

[ninetimesfined]

The production is subtle. It’s the little touches that make Ringleader - the choir, the little touches of brass. The glam undertones, the sinister tone in places. I even love the b-side that’s the most-maligned ‘I Knew I was Next’ it’s a great track. Seem to remember a lot of people disliking it quite a lot...

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Exactly!!! I don't know if he is overrated or not, but his skill is making things sound like a hellish noise... and his priority is the raw sound of the band and the singer's voice covered by layers and layers of mayhem. It works very well for some bands... but with Morrissey? It would be a terrible idea. I can only imagine the result as something that sounds like Whitehouse.

it depends on who he is recording, some bands are harder and noisier than others. To me all the Albini hullabaloo started with Nirvana wanting to work with him because he recorded the Pixies 'Surfer Rosa ' album, so ever since, bands thought.. well if the successful Nirvana wants to work with Albini then he must be good, he isn't bad, has his own sound, 'raw' depending on the band, is a good description of his 'sound', his goal seems to be keeping the integrity of the sound the band has, though I believe Visconti says Albini does control in that inevitably Albini will leave his finger prints on any band he touches. Also should mention that PJ Harvey and Nirvana owe a big debt to the Pixies, and working with Albini is not gonna make them as great as the mighty Pixies not in this world or the next.

Don't think Albini could make a band sound like Whitehouse unless that band is Whitehouse, an amazing band/William Bennett project , love the Cut Hands stuff very much.

 

[Anonymous]

if you want to sell NO albums at all, then Albini should be your choice. FFS the guy is as subtle as meat cleaver.

Mastering is now done by your next door neighbor on the Computer software. All that mixing and mastering is practically a thing of the past.

 

[Tom]

The mix comes before the master though so no, it doesn't leave his hands last. Records almost always have a different mastering engineer to the producer because they will listen to the record with a fresh prospective and so pick up on anything that needs to be picked up on.

Indeed it does leave his hands last, he's a very hands-on producer, trust me on that one. He has final approve. I stand by the fact that it was his decision to overly compress Ringleader for the benefit of loudness. At the very least, he approved it. Anyone who says Visconti doesn't have a hand in mastering is incorrect. He recently remastered all the Bowie albums for the latest Bowie box set (poorly).

 

[Anonymous]

it depends on who he is recording, some bands are harder and noisier than others. To me all the Albini hullabaloo started with Nirvana wanting to work with him because he recorded the Pixies 'Surfer Rosa ' album, so ever since, bands thought.. well if the successful Nirvana wants to work with Albini then he must be good, he isn't bad, has his own sound, 'raw' depending on the band, is a good description of his 'sound', his goal seems to be keeping the integrity of the sound the band has, though I believe Visconti says Albini does control in that inevitably Albini will leave his finger prints on any band he touches. Also should mention that PJ Harvey and Nirvana owe a big debt to the Pixies, and working with Albini is not gonna make them as great as the mighty Pixies not in this world or the next.

Don't think Albini could make a band sound like Whitehouse unless that band is Whitehouse, an amazing band/William Bennett project , love the Cut Hands stuff very much.

Amusingly while he does try to keep the raw sound of the band the pixies first album is probably the biggest exception to this principal and I believe he has apologized for in his words warping there record. The use of the metal picks they used for example was an albini insistence. It's why the demos sound so different and cleaner than what came after. A staple of his production was also his use of mic placement

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Indeed it does leave his hands last, he's a very hands-on producer, trust me on that one. He has final approve. I stand by the fact that it was his decision to overly compress Ringleader for the benefit of loudness. At the very least, he approved it. Anyone who says Visconti doesn't have a hand in mastering is incorrect. He recently remastered all the Bowie albums for the latest Bowie box set (poorly).

He may have remastered the Bowie albums but he didn't master this, check the credits. Unless Tony all of a sudden works for free, which he doesn't.

 

[Stanley the 2nd]

Interesting comments on Ringleader, agree with most of them. It's a weird album for me as Pigsty and Dear God are my favourite Moz songs since the Vauxhall & I era..... but the rest of the album I don't care for. Tinny production and weak songs on the rest of the album. In a way it was the start of the rot creeping in.

 

[evennow]

Exactly.

I always thought ringleader had a too loud and static sound, but without being able to explain or articulate it better. I think Tom above just explained it to me!

By the way; weren't Oasis first albums loud in the same way?


On another note: I always found that my favourite, Vauxhall and I, has a dull sound, like a wet blanket was thrown over the whole sound picture, the instruments are kind muddled together;

It doesn't sound as crisp or clear as for example You're the quarry, - any reflections on that?

I agree completely here and thank you Tom for explaining my frustration with both records. How disappointing it was to hear an incredible song like Now My Heart is full only to feel like I had foam ear plugs in my ear! YATQ production has been referred to as being "tinny" here, but I prefer a clean, crisp sound where the vocals and instrumentation is separated and well defined. Maybe this is why it is one of my favorite solo records. Songs like IBEH, and First of the Gang are so clear and powerful that they took my breath away. Your Arsenal has a similar affect on me.

 

[Oh my]

it depends on who he is recording, some bands are harder and noisier than others. To me all the Albini hullabaloo started with Nirvana wanting to work with him because he recorded the Pixies 'Surfer Rosa ' album, so ever since, bands thought.. well if the successful Nirvana wants to work with Albini then he must be good, he isn't bad, has his own sound, 'raw' depending on the band, is a good description of his 'sound', his goal seems to be keeping the integrity of the sound the band has, though I believe Visconti says Albini does control in that inevitably Albini will leave his finger prints on any band he touches. Also should mention that PJ Harvey and Nirvana owe a big debt to the Pixies, and working with Albini is not gonna make them as great as the mighty Pixies not in this world or the next.

Don't think Albini could make a band sound like Whitehouse unless that band is Whitehouse, an amazing band/William Bennett project , love the Cut Hands stuff very much.

I certainly adore The Pixies and I like Steve Albini. I think I only know one song by Nirvana though (I've never been into listening to Grunge bands... thankfully).
He did a nice work with some bands as a producer... and I actually like a lot several Touch and Go bands (and there is certainly a "Touch and Go sound").
But sometimes it's not a matter of talent, but a matter of things that match and things that don't. I do not think that hiring David Lynch to make a film about the history of The Smiths would be reasonable. I can't imagine an album cover of a Morrissey album designed by Anselm Kiefer (Holy Kiefer! That man is a genius!).

Anyway, the most important thing is that my jaw fell to the floor when I read that you like Cut Hands!
So I am too amazed as to write something that can barely pretend to make some sort of sense right now.
I am simply astonished and I won't even try to write something that makes sense since my head spins like a dream machine... but thanks a lot.