to cili

either way

as i was watching Ellen and her lover Anne Hache describe to Larry King what their journey into lesbianism was like, it comes off as a very personal experience.

Ellen tried sleeping with a guy and knew it wasn't right. She said in high school she never slept with anyone and she thought it was because she was a "good girl". Nothing there really drove her to do the deed, and when she finally did, she understood. Anne on the other hand actually had romances where she was deeply in love with men, but has taken up with Ellen.

Some people say that they have known all their lives that something wasn't right with them. Other people have been married for years and it suddenly hit them that they were in love with Martina Navratilova...oh, I can't think of her lover's name, but you know who I'm talking about.

Patti Smith claimed she tried to sleep with a woman, but found their bodies too soft and she preferred the muscle of a man. It didn't turn her on. Lou Reed, on the other hand, despite having serious girl friends and actually being married, had many male lovers. Some men he took up with was out of nothing more than to have a sexual release. There was no emotional love, and he didn't consider himself part of a couple with many of these guys, but he did it anyway.

Despite Morrissey saying there is no difference, "I can have both" definitely sounds like someone who is having inner turmoil. From the way it's worded, the impression comes out that he had only accepted one way and has to re-train his thinking. "He doesn't know he can have both" is pretty damning. A guy who pretty much had cut out the other half of the equation for a long period of time. A guy who began embracing boxing as an art of manliness. A person enthralled and taken by something that until the last year or two, was only a male sport. He equated this violent display as the top form of what a man could be. Whenever you read what he says about boxing, you get a sense he loves the male nature of the sport. It's not the violence. If he saw the genders as no different than one another, then this shouldn't really matter what is male. In fact, nothing should be "male" to him as a sport, article of clothing, or even life style, but it is.

Despite the fact that he did have many relationships with girls earlier in his life, things changed. Jake was the first he probably felt comfortable with. The object he publicly displayed and held up as his new life. From what we can see, no one person had been able to tap into him in such a way as to radically alter what he was.

Despite what his last songs have been about, I don't think he's really grasped the situation to a point where he is comfortable enough with it. With "Swallow" he states that he knew from the moment it happened. With "I can have both" he doesn't really know. He can have it, as he says, but does he feel comfortable with having both? No. That's why he can't make up his mind between hanging around and watching or going in and participating.


ode to silliness
 
Re: Let's call the whole thing off

> Arguing about who Morrissey sleeps with IS old and poinless;
> trying to figure out how people can be blind to the fact that he
> MIGHT prefer the company of men, isn't - at least not yet!

I never said that he might not prefer men; I don't believe Cili did either.

Anyway....

Speaking of discussion and debate as you mentioned in your reply to Cili, am I the only one who has noticed that the number of posts here increases when Greasetea is absent and decreases when he's here?
 
You're all smiles!

> Not at all!
> :D

That's what I like about you. You've got to be the sanest person on this discussion board. I never even suspected that you were a girl though!

> Actually, I'm quite pleased that the plethora of silly
> postings has subsided and that discussion and debate (even if it
> IS the "gay" chestnut) have somewhat returned.

Me too. But like you said in your other message, we're running along the border between Morrissey's sexuality and people's openness to interpretations of him; we've got a dual thing going on. So it's not really an old topic. It actually feels somewhat fresh.

;-p


funny_05.jpg
 
Re: You're all smiles!

> That's what I like about you. You've got to be the sanest person
> on this discussion board. I never even suspected that you were a
> girl though!

Girl? Yes, 'tis true...but please don't confine me to such labels! ;)

> Me too. But like you said in your other message, we're running
> along the border between Morrissey's sexuality and people's
> openness to interpretations of him; we've got a dual thing going
> on. So it's not really an old topic. It actually feels somewhat
> fresh.

Oh, I agree - so let's take the gloves off, shall we? OK, now whose turn is it...hmm...Benny? I believe it's yours.
 
I was only joking, my dear...

> it isn't very becoming. any you may have noticed that i did
> manage to find a way to respond to the post above.

Yes...you always seem to find the words...

> i do not believe i am holier or gayer than thou, sweetie. why be
> so nasty? i've never been this nasty to you. you were also very
> nasty to greastea. what an unpleasant person. i try my best not
> to attack people on a personal basis. calling you a meany-bucket
> is hardly what i would call harsh.

I cried for nearly three hours! And I'm so ashamed about the manner in which I spoke to the Greasetea...I just couldn't sleep at all last night!

> i will defend my right 'til the end to post my opinions. after
> all, this *is* a discussion board, right? you'll notice i debate
> people's ideas and expressed opinions;

I DO agree wiyh you on that one!! You have the right and privilege to post here...just like everybody else does...

> i do not make attacks on
> them personally. i do not know any of you.

I guess it's not that you attack others PERSONALLY--- you just talk down to those who have a different opinion than your own. I don't want to hurt your feelings either--- I'm just trying to have a little fun and make you think.
 
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