Time to Hire a Songwriter?!

[Orson Swells]

... the judgmentally clouded fans that love any trash he releases do!

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known.

As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we.

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[mikael]

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known.

As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we.

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

Well put.

 

[billybu69]

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known.

As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we.

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

great post.

 

[Liam Temple]

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known.

As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we.

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

I agree with everything there, some of Moz's greatest songs are one most people class as 'average' anyway. I really enjoyed Years Of Refusal and I think the new songs translate well live on the tour, after all he's gave no word that they will ever appear on an album anyway, they might just be live treats for the fans to spice the set up a bit!

 

[mikael]

I like Dagenham Dave;-)

 

[billybu69]

I like Dagenham Dave;-)

Now you're just trying to cause trouble.

 

[mikael]

Trouble is my middle name!

 

[SparkleBoy]

Release an acoustic album. He still possess one of the most marvelous voices in music. Release an acoustic album of old material, re-envisioned.

A great post, and I agreed with most of your points. Perhaps instead of hiring a songwriter, he can find more inspiring musicians to work with. Not "better," but new. I think of what Robert Quine did for Lou Reed w/ the Blue Mask - a career reinvention. Lou had gotten stale with the group of musicians he had been working with for the better part of 10 years.

I have always wondered why Moz never did an acoustic album. If Johnny Thunders could do it and come off wonderfully, surely Moz could. Hell, Iggy's done it.

 

[mozzerdimpaler]

I think he needs a better songwriter and produce better material himself and while i`m on my high horse increase his gig time over 70 minutes to a standard 90m.

Acoustic versions of poor/mediocre songs will still be poor/mediocre songs. Its like a bad footballer going from 11 a side to 5 a side.

 

[MozIsGod]

I think he needs a better songwriter and produce better material himself and while i`m on my high horse increase his gig time over 70 minutes to a standard 90m.

Acoustic versions of poor/mediocre songs will still be poor/mediocre songs. Its like a bad footballer going from 11 a side to 5 a side.

Check out the acoustic version of Reader Meet Author from the Southpaw sessions. I still prefer the studio version just for the guitar riff, but the acoustic one provides a different perspective. An acoustic album of new material would be a fresh alternative to what he's doing now. Sure he can release another rock album similar to Refusal, but how boring would that be?

 

[Vauxhall95]

A few things to mention - to wit:
- Morrissey has effectively hired songwriters before. after relationships broke down with Street, he went to established songwriters rather than people he knew or had met naturally. these included Nevin, Armstrong and Langer. with the exception of the early Morrissey/Nevin songs, I'd say this was a success. remember, it wasn't just Street who wrote the Bona Drag stuff. Langer wrote November, Armstrong wrote Piccadilly and He Knows. one of them, in an interview, said they felt they needed to provide Morrissey with a complete piece of music that would stand up on its own, even without any singing, like Marr used to do with the Smiths. it's this approach/discipline that has been sorely lacking since the early 90's.
- get Jarvis Cocker in? no thanks! whilst Cocker is a great pop person and a talented lyricist, his musical abilities are mediocre. the solo songs were pretty awful, and the stuff he wrote for other people (e.g. Sinatra) was extremely weak. he's the last person Morrissey needs.
- an acoustic album? there's this misconception that the way the songs on an album are produced/arranged makes a huge difference to how good they are. simply not true! if someone writes a batch of mediocre, electric-guitar based indie-pop songs, they will sound just as mediocre with an acoustic arrangement. the quality of the compositions themselves is all that really matters.
- it seems our best hope for a decent new album is that the Street rumour is true. an album's worth of Tobias and Boorer songs in 2011 could end up being his worst ever (unless Boorer rediscovers his early 90's form and Tobias ups his game).
- there's also the question of the lyrics. some disagree but the consensus among the fans is that they're getting worse and worse. not entirely sure how this could be adddressed. perhaps if Morrissey was given wonderful pieces of music to work with, he would subconsciously make more of an effort lyrically.

With regards to the idea of an acoustic album, I don't disagree with your points. However, he has an enormous pool of songs to draw upon, and I still maintain he has one of the best voices of all time.

I threw Jarvis out there because he's a clever swine and has written material for others.

By the way, everyone does realize I fully appreciate just how ludicrous a thread name this is? That one of the most talented and accomplished lyricists of all time could be reduced to "cover albums" and duets is not lost on me. Again, this is all getting more than a little painful watching greatness fade. Am I alone in wanting to protect his legacy? Between the interviews, the now sing-by-the-numbers approach to song crafting, it's all just getting painful to watch. Perhaps it is time to stop with the new material?

 

[Maurice E]

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known. As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we. I think that was the point I was trying to make.

Wise words, Orson. I can enjoy the songs which are musically so-so like the ones you mentioned. It's just the recent trend for clumsy, blunt and dim-witted lyrics which makes it impossible to even half-like some of the songs.
In the past, ok-ish music was compensated for by a poetic observation, an imaginative couplet etc - the shortage of those is, to my mind, at the root of the problem these days.
However, like you (and most music journalists in fact) I agree that Refusal was easily the best of the last three albums. Also, if Street was to reappear as a songwriter, I think we could still be in for some fantastic new Morrissey songs.
But if he doesn't (and judging by the 3 new songs in the live set ) I fear we could be in for a new career low-point.

 

[Vauxhall95]

Or... just people who happen to like listening to Morrissey songs i.e. Morrissey fans, as they are known.

As a Morrissey fan, I enjoy average Morrissey songs e.g. Now I Am A Was, Have-A-Go-Merchant, Lucky Lisp et al. Average songs yet enjoyable to me on many levels. Action Is My Middle Name is a better song than these, of course. The other two new ones are at about the same level, but... I still enjoy listening to them. This does not make me "judgmentally clouded": Kill Uncle is a poor Morrissey record; Years of Refusal is a very good Morrissey record, the best of the three "comeback" releases. That is my opinion. And I am old enough to remember standing in line in the queue for the Wolvehampton gig listening to people complain how Viva Hate wasn't "as good as The Smiths." In fact, I remember people saying the same about Strangeways and every single and album release post-The Queen Is Dead. (Which is itself an over-rated record; The Smiths' Sgt. Pepper.) The point being... Morrissey fans like Morrissey songs. If you don't, there's not much point listening. Enjoy him while you can. He won't be here forever. And come to think of it, neither will we.

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

The songs you mentioned as being "average Morrissey songs" are to me songs that I could not find another artist singing, creating, or envisioning. The very fact that they were average by Morrissey standards speak to the incredibly high bar that he had set.

Where we diverge is the idea that the last album, for me basically everything post "That's How People Grow Up," has been widely forgettable/career killing. The unveiling of the last three songs reconfirm something has been lost. They seem rote by comparison.

To speak to Maurice's post that the musical press heralded YOR as the best of the comeback albums, to me you're not helping your argument. YOR was accessible because it lacked the lyrical depth of past albums.

 

[Maurice E]

The songs you mentioned as being "average Morrissey songs" are to me songs that I could not find another artist singing, creating, or envisioning. The very fact that they were average by Morrissey standards speak to the incredibly high bar that he had set. Where we diverge is the idea that the last album, for me basically everything post "That's How People Grow Up," has been widely forgettable/career killing. The unveiling of the last three songs reconfirm something has been lost. They seem rote by comparison.
To speak to Maurice's post that the musical press heralded YOR as the best of the comeback albums, to me you're not helping your argument. YOR was accessible because it lacked the lyrical depth of past albums.

I'm a bit baffled by how you can think Ringleader is a top quality record and YOR is well below par. They're both pretty patchy but the critics are right this time - YOR is easily the better. Paris has a lovely melody and really simple but affecting lyrics. Carol is a wonderful and unusual (for Morrissey) piece of music with a brilliantly expressed lyric. Birthday is possibly his most anthemic song ever written. ROTT is full of gormless, mediocre bluster (Father must be killed, On the Streets I ran etc are just horrible), and dire cliches (being entered by a key is the kind of half-witted innuendo you would expect to hear on a Tina Turner record). Yes, there are some decent songs on there too but it's patchy as hell.
Relative to the high watermark of the Smiths and early Morrissey stuff, each of the last 3 albums is pretty disappointing. The idea that standards were high up to, and including, ROTT but then plummetted for YOR is just baffling (although I would agree that THPGU is one of his worst ever singles).

 

[CharlieFairhead]

Wise words, Orson. I can enjoy the songs which are musically so-so like the ones you mentioned. It's just the recent trend for clumsy, blunt and dim-witted lyrics which makes it impossible to even half-like some of the songs.

A few clangers granted but you're going overboard, dim-witted isn't a term I'd use regarding Morrissey however it's very much at play in these forums.

 

[Vauxhall95]

I'm a bit baffled by how you can think Ringleader is a top quality record and YOR is well below par. They're both pretty patchy but the critics are right this time - YOR is easily the better. Paris has a lovely melody and really simple but affecting lyrics. Carol is a wonderful and unusual (for Morrissey) piece of music with a brilliantly expressed lyric. Birthday is possibly his most anthemic song ever written. ROTT is full of gormless, mediocre bluster (Father must be killed, On the Streets I ran etc are just horrible), and dire cliches (being entered by a key is the kind of half-witted innuendo you would expect to hear on a Tina Turner record). Yes, there are some decent songs on there too but it's patchy as hell.
Relative to the high watermark of the Smiths and early Morrissey stuff, each of the last 3 albums is pretty disappointing. The idea that standards were high up to, and including, ROTT but then plummetted for YOR is just baffling (although I would agree that THPGU is one of his worst ever singles).

I agree there are 3 songs on the backend of ROTT that are so-so, and The Father Who Must Be Killed is one of the few songs when I burn a copy of ROTT for the car I simply leave off.

However, there are also a lot of really good songs whose lyrics are interesting. I understand you don't like "You Have Killed Me," I just think you're being overly hard on what was the lead off single radio friendly track.
"I Will See You in Far-Off Places"
"Dear God Please Help Me" *
"You Have Killed Me"
"The Youngest Was the Most Loved"
"In the Future When All's Well" *
"Life Is a Pigsty" *
"At Last I Am Born"

 

[mikael]

I agree there are 3 songs on the backend of ROTT that are so-so, and The Father Who Must Be Killed is one of the few songs when I burn a copy of ROTT for the car I simply leave off.

However, there are also a lot of really good songs whose lyrics are interesting. I understand you don't like "You Have Killed Me," I just think you're being overly hard on what was the lead off single radio friendly track.
"I Will See You in Far-Off Places"
"Dear God Please Help Me" *
"You Have Killed Me"
"The Youngest Was the Most Loved"
"In the Future When All's Well" *
"Life Is a Pigsty" *
"At Last I Am Born"

You're not going to any of the shows are you?

 

[thekremlin]

i'd like to hear morrissey do something backed by the arctic monkeys, which is strange 'cos while i like the arctic monkeys, i'm not in love with them. i just think they'd make some great music for morrissey and he'd sound great singing the stuff they'd written for him. go on, kill me...

 

[Maurice E]

I agree there are 3 songs on the backend of ROTT that are so-so, and The Father Who Must Be Killed is one of the few songs when I burn a copy of ROTT for the car I simply leave off.
However, there are also a lot of really good songs whose lyrics are interesting. I understand you don't like "You Have Killed Me," I just think you're being overly hard on what was the lead off single radio friendly track.
"I Will See You in Far-Off Places"
"Dear God Please Help Me" *
"You Have Killed Me"
"The Youngest Was the Most Loved"
"In the Future When All's Well" *
"Life Is a Pigsty" *
"At Last I Am Born"

I quite like You Have Killed Me. It's ok (despite Tina Turner-esque lyrics). I Will See You is muddled and full of bluster. Dear God is ruined by kegs between legs.
The Youngest is just flimsy, with a platitude for a chorus.
In the Future, I really like. Pigsty is good too (and I also really like I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero). At last I am born is an interesting idea but just falls flat.

All in all, ROTT and YOR are not hugely different in terms of quality. I find the lyrics are generally a bit less cringey on YOR, and there's more diversity to the music (love the oboe in birthday, the clarinet in Paris, the brass in Carol etc).
As mentioned, I just can't understand why anyone would love ROTT and think YOR was a disaster - ultimately they're both fairly disappointing latter-day solo albums. Anyway, we've probably done this analysis to death. Perhaps we can both agree that, with Street on board, (please let it be true!), the next one will be a huge improvement on both.

 

[mikael]

Tina turn-off