Tim Jonze wanted to be harsher on Morrissey!

[Augustus]

I think this very clearly illustrates the way the Islingtonista media in the UK operates. To many of us Morrissey's comments are his and he is free to make them and we are free to either embrace or reject them. If Morrissey believes the identity of England in particular is being eroded he is by no means alone.

To "Jonze" (how old is this guy? Zzzzz, indeed...), like many in the media, he alone is the arbiter of what is true and what can and cannot be said in public discourse and those unwilling or unable to fit into his worldview are silenced or destroyed. Tim knows best and Tim will wear his elitist credentials proudly for all to see, or more to the point, for his like minded friends to see.

There is indeed a fascist involved in this story. He's the one telling the rest of the world how they should think and act, and that person is Tim "Jonze".

 

[Augustus]

This whole steaming pile of media bollocks is nothing more than a weak, cheap substitute for a rigorous and self-examining debate about xenophobia.

It reads like a nation freaking out, which let me tell you, it's strange to see from the outside.

It's pretty strange from the inside too. The UK is absolutely hamstrung by white comfortably off middle classes obsessed with the evils of colonialism and trying desperately to outdo each other in the holier than thou stakes. White liberal guilt is the plat du jour of the granita eating classes, as they buy their children £120 a pair Nike trainers and fair trade chocolate, with barely a hint of self awareness.

Seems Morrissey, who frankly should know better, walked straight into it and can't really be too surprised that the NME, who stitched him up before, have been only too happy to do it again. It's hard to win an argument against hypocrites as they don't really believe in anything except what they think you want to hear.

Anyway, this is all moot, or soon will be. The NME is dead in the water and won't be around very much longer. Judging by the forum posts over on NME.com most of their readership can't even string a sentence together anyway, which is presumably why it looks like a child's comic nowadays.

As for Morrissey, I have a little advice. "Never wrestle with a chimney sweep."

 

[Theo]

What's clear, though, is this: the "I've been stitched up" card is the last bastion of someone who's said something offensive but is too scared to back this up, yet too stubborn to apologise. How can Morrissey possibly claim a stitch up when the interview is printed in Q&A form, his quotes are recorded on tape and he wasn't even asked about immigration in the first place? It's truly cowardly. If Morrissey holds these opinions he should either be sticking to his guns and standing by them or - more honorably - educating himself on race issues, realising why his comments were both offensive and inflamatory, and apologising for them as quickly as is humanly possible.

If the quotes are accurate, I don't see why Morrissey is (once again) having his lawyers issue all kinds of threats. I guess Morrissey wants to use this to get in the papers, though.

That said, I fully understand how frustrating it is when you speak your mind and if your feelings take one step off the PC left-wing dogma you are called all sorts of names. Magazines like the NME try and insist that all artists in popular culture who do not conform 100% to leftist, socialist ideology must be made to apologize or else they should be demonized. This is very suffocating. Artists should not worry about things like whether an ultra-PC writer at a music rag approves of his/her thoughts. Art will be seriously harmed if we insist that artists are required to hold a certain political ideology before they can comment on the world through their work.

The crime is not that Morrissey said provocative or controversial things. He says all kinds of provocative, controversial things. This is okay so long as magazines like the NME can see that they come from a left-wing socialist's heart. A pop artist could hold court all day with the music press about how much he loves Fidel Castro, how America had it coming on 9/11, etc etc. That would be a-okay. So long as the NME can say to themselves, "Well, he said something crazy there, but it comes from a leftist's heart so he means well," they will not criticize a thing you say, no matter how extreme, ignorant, or offensive. But if you make even a mild comment on a complex issue where maybe even a majority of people in England agree with you but the comment reveals you've stepped off the leftist/socialist plantation, you will be told you need to apologize, that your career should be in jeopardy, that no one should pay attention to your artwork, and that you need to be sent somewhere for re-education classes before you're allowed to leave your house again.

 

[Currer Bell]

yes I do wonder, so you think that Morrissey does have a decent case then? I know its been discussed all over about ten threads but this "blog/statement" made me go uh oh... this might not be good for Morrissey.

You know something? Tim Jonze (who is probably drinking his way through Thailand as we speak) is relevant but not the end-all.

At the end of the day, whatever Tim Jonze's "reasons" were for writing Merck don't mean a hill of beans except on the public opinion front. All that matters is that they caused Merck to write to the NME to ask for confirmation that the tone of the article had not changed, but they hid from their email until after it went to the printers.

That's like a little kid spilling kool-aid on the rug but putting a chair over it so that nobody can see.

Tim has a picture of himself in front of the Salford Lad's club. Whatever strange and bizarre beliefs Morrissey had about the order of the world apparently didn't bother him...until now. After years of Finsbury Park, skinhead imagery, and the death threats towards vivisectionists, he chooses to rise up and kill over Morrissey noticing that people in London talk funny. As we say in East Texas, "run your face into my hand."

 

[Have-A-Go Merchant]

Don't get me started about Texans!

 

[suparni]

Don't get me started about Texans!

 

[Currer Bell]

Don't get me started about Texans!

Morrissey wants to be one, but doesn't move here because he'll never be able to pull it off.

 

[Theo]

Morrissey wants to be one, but doesn't move here because he'll never be able to pull it off.

You say you're not from Texas
Man as if I couldn't tell
You think you pull your boots on right
And wear your hat so well

So pardon me my laughter
'Cause I sure do understand
Even Moses got excited
When he saw the promised land

That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

See I was born and raised in Texas
And it means so much to me
Though my girl comes from down in Georgia
We were up in Tennessee

And as we were driving down the highway
She asked me baby what's so great
How come you're always going on
About your Lone Star State

I said that's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

Oh the road it looked so lovely
As she stood there on the side
And she grew smaller in my mirror
As I watched her wave goodbye

Those boys from Carolina
They sure enough could sing
But when they came on down to Texas
We all showed them how to swing

Now David's on the radio
And old Champ's still on the guitar
And Uncle Walt he's home with Heidi
Hiding in her loving arms

That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

They're OK in Oklahoma
Up in Arkansas they're fair
But those old folks in Missouri
They don't even know you're there

But at a dance hall down in Texas
That's the finest place to be
The women they all look beautiful
And their men will buy your beer for free

And they'll say that's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

So won't you let me help you Mister
Just pull your hat down the way I do
And buy your pants just a little longer
And next time somebody laughs at you

You just tell 'em you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
That's right you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

 

[vivabob]

Tim Jonze is talking rubbish and should actually stand by his principles and be honest rather than rolling over for the NME , im pretty sure companys also look for someone with integrity, he has just shown himself to be a lap dog of the NME , whats going to happen when he needs work when the NME moves on to someone younger to review some band at the tap and tin in camden ... who would actually want to employ someone like that

 

[WinkWink]

If the quotes are accurate, I don't see why Morrissey is (once again) having his lawyers issue all kinds of threats. I guess Morrissey wants to use this to get in the papers, though.

That said, I fully understand how frustrating it is when you speak your mind and if your feelings take one step off the PC left-wing dogma you are called all sorts of names. Magazines like the NME try and insist that all artists in popular culture who do not conform 100% to leftist, socialist ideology must be made to apologize or else they should be demonized. This is very suffocating. Artists should not worry about things like whether an ultra-PC writer at a music rag approves of his/her thoughts. Art will be seriously harmed if we insist that artists are required to hold a certain political ideology before they can comment on the world through their work.

The crime is not that Morrissey said provocative or controversial things. He says all kinds of provocative, controversial things. This is okay so long as magazines like the NME can see that they come from a left-wing socialist's heart. A pop artist could hold court all day with the music press about how much he loves Fidel Castro, how America had it coming on 9/11, etc etc. That would be a-okay. So long as the NME can say to themselves, "Well, he said something crazy there, but it comes from a leftist's heart so he means well," they will not criticize a thing you say, no matter how extreme, ignorant, or offensive. But if you make even a mild comment on a complex issue where maybe even a majority of people in England agree with you but the comment reveals you've stepped off the leftist/socialist plantation, you will be told you need to apologize, that your career should be in jeopardy, that no one should pay attention to your artwork, and that you need to be sent somewhere for re-education classes before you're allowed to leave your house again.

I agree.

i think these guys running and writing for the NME are simply too immature and close-minded to understand that morrissey didn't say anything racist, he just said something that is considered to be a conservative viewpoint. in this way, NME is being close-minded and intolerant of other viewpoints. isn't that supposed to be not cool? But they don't realize that. if you look at their myspace pages, they are a coulpe of immature hipsters. these boys should lose their jobs.

 

[This charming man.]

Good for you. I'm glad you are well traveled. I like what you wrote, it came from the heart. As an American, I lived in Saudi Arabia for ten years when I was very young. Americans, Brits, Western Europeans brought in to run the country were placed in fenced camps or compounds. Within them, the Filipinos and/or Bangladeshis were placed in a camp within a camp surrounded by electric fences and armed guards. Their living conditions were deplorable and their wages pathetic. They would often have to work for 3-5 year contracts before they could return home to their families. The female house servants from these third world countries who were unfortunate enough to work in a private Saudi family were often raped and beaten (they have no legal recourse).

Not sure where I'm going with all this, but I agree: these NME idiots need to get their collective heads out of the clouds. Real racism exists and it's not in the form of a 48 year old pop/star nostalgic Englishman who just wishes England was the same place he grew up in. Don't we all wish for a simpler time? It's a preference. He's not advocating concentration camps for Christ's sake!

Excellently put, and I think he's just echoing what most Brits think anyway!
And NO I'm not racsist. On the contrary!

 

[lilikoi]

wow - well that's interesting indeed.

 

[This charming man.]

wow - well that's interesting indeed.

Please elaborate. What is? The whole thread or one particular post?

 

[lightupvirginmary]

I thought the majority of the blog comments were extremely intelligent and well reasoned and all jonze could reply was 'I'm a little bit upset you don't agree with me'. Bless.

 

[meat_is_murder19]

All this fuss just cause morrissey said he wants to cut the flow of immigration into england.is it really racist to love england

 

[Augustus]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Morrissey did say those things and the records show those words coming from his mouth. The issue then becomes the manner in which the author and/or editorial staff came at it rather than the sheer (dare I say...) black and white of what was said. Surely then you are just dealing with the personal standpoints of the two sides, not the fact of what was actually said?

Where does that leave Morrissey? Up a gum tree I would think. What irritates me about this is that ironically the very ten years away that informs him in his comments has left Morrissey vulnerable to the relatively recent phenomena in this country (and in particular the media) that you can no longer speak your mind if that does not fit in with the perceived norms. Ten years of New Labour have left free speech in a parlous state in this country. That smiling, grinning young man that charmed his way up Downing Street in May 1997 may have looked cute and cuddly but was a revolutionary in sheep's clothing and one with a direct line to God to boot. Ten years on the UK is more divided than ever and free speech on "controversial" issues is jumped on by the foot soldiers of that new dawn, the liberal media.

I'm afraid this may have been a problem Morrissey and Merck could have and should have seen coming. Of all people you would imagine Morrissey would know that talking to the NME about immigration is probably not a very good idea, and if he did not what on earth is he paying Merck for?

 

[sore_lips]

You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jonze?

I don't think I'd want my throat back after it had been used like that.

 

[Augustus]

All this fuss just cause morrissey said he wants to cut the flow of immigration into england.is it really racist to love england

Well ironically in the eyes of people like Jonzzzzzze and the NME it is if you are white, but not if you are of another hue. If you are white you are labelled a BNP supporter, if not you are a symbol of the multicultural idyll. The Dagenham Dave's that Morrissey eloquently lampooned are anathema to the liberal elite. Far too common, far too working class, far too white. Yuck. The fact that it was people like them that left their blood and innards on the fields of Europe fighting totalitarianism twice in the last century is neither here nor there.

Here's a song for the NME editorial staff and Jonzzzze which sums them up quite nicely I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDoN8Iq6sQ

Hopefully next time Morrissey won't be so bloody stupid nd think you can fight fair with the loathesome hypocrites who populate the UK media these days.

 

[Danny_]

All this fuss just cause morrissey said he wants to cut the flow of immigration into england.is it really racist to love england

Actually he didn't say that. He very explicitly said there was no way he could call for people not to be able to move about when that's what he did himself.

What he did say was due to these changes the England he liked has disappeared.

For me, what was important was the words he used to describe why he liked that world: "funny and quaint", no mention of pride or greatness which is the sort of language the BNP use. Just a small little world that he could find ridiculous and poke fun at in his songs. As far from traditional racist language as it's possible to be.