The two greatest lyricists Morrissey and Bob Dylan, discuss

rifke

bodhisattva
Though the lyrics to that one are from a Lorca poem, I believe.
oh i didnt know that! thanks for telling me!! the more i hear about this lorca guy the more i think he's my kinda writer
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
oh i didnt know that! thanks for telling me!! the more i hear about this lorca guy the more i think he's my kinda writer

get a copy of Poet in New York, my favorite of his works.


“…en Nueva York (published 1940; Poet in New York), a series of poems whose dense, at times hallucinatory images, free-verse lines, and thematic preoccupation with urban decay and social injustice mark an audacious departure from Lorca’s previous work. The collection is redolent of Charles Baudelaire, Edgar Allan Poe, T.S. Eliot,…”




The New York dawn has
four columns of mud
and a hurricane of black doves
that paddle in putrescent waters.

The New York dawn grieves
along the immense stairways,
seeking amidst the groins
spikenards of fine-drawn anguish.

The dawn comes and no one receives it in his mouth,
for there no morn or hope is possible.
Occasionally, coins in furious swarms
perforate and devour abandoned children.

The first to come out understand in their bones
that there will be no paradise nor amours stripped of leaves:
they know they are going to the mud of figures and laws,
to artless games, to fruitless sweat.

The light is buried under chains and noises
in impudent challenge of rootless science.
Throught the suburbs sleepless people stagger,
as though just delivered from a shipwreck of blood.
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Wow, tough question.

Are we judging words on paper (that we might simply read through), or the manner in which they're delivered by the artist?

Personally, in either regard, I don't see anyone surpassing Moz tbh. His words, in the main, are simply stunning, but his delivery is quite impeccable.

Lennon has written some beautiful stuff, but Moz is probably the only one (of a small few) where I've even wanted to study the words.

Dylan on the other hand has never featured, musically or lyrically, as far as I'm concerned.

Moz all day for me.


No.


I’m saying to different degrees Morrissey and Dylan have had the greatest impact on lyric writers.

1. For the first time in popular music they brought something new to the table that was uniquely theirs.

2. Besides their distinct delivery and maybe also because of their distinct
deliveries and unique presence, their lyric has influenced other lyric writers.


As I’ve already said, there are many many good lyric writers, great ones too !


But the greatest lyric writers as far as influence goes, are Morrissey and Bob Dylan.

That’s not to say other lyricists can’t be enjoyed and loved or influence other writers also, but these other lyric writers were most likely directly or indirectly influenced by Dylan or Morrissey.


So, what do you folks think ?
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
for me it's leonard cohen! reference 'Take This Waltz" for proof.

Though the lyrics to that one are from a Lorca poem, I believe.

:thumb:


 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Another vote for Lennie Cohen from me! ❤️

I love love love Cohen! and definitely prefer him over Dylan any day.

But I still say that Dylan and Morrissey are the greatest lyricists because they have made a larger impact on lyric writers (directly or indirectly) that’s not to say that these or any lyric writers to come don’t also have other influences.


What’s your favorite Cohen song or songs?
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
I love love love Cohen! and definitely prefer him over Dylan any day.

But I still say that Dylan and Morrissey are the greatest lyricists because they have made a larger impact on lyric writers (directly or indirectly) that’s not to say that these or any lyric writers to come don’t also have other influences.


What’s your favorite Cohen song or songs?

Can you name any lyricists that Morrissey has had an impact on as I genuinely can't think of many who mention him as an influence?
 
T

Trans

Guest
Colin meloy has for sure been influenced by morrissey. Not many modern musicians really talk very specifically about there lyrics which is I think a shame
 

bun bun

baklava
I love love love Cohen! and definitely prefer him over Dylan any day.

But I still say that Dylan and Morrissey are the greatest lyricists because they have made a larger impact on lyric writers (directly or indirectly) that’s not to say that these or any lyric writers to come don’t also have other influences.


What’s your favorite Cohen song or songs?

It has got to be Famous Blue Raincoat. Or maybe The Stranger Song. Impossible to decide.

Anyway, Brett Anderson was definitely influenced by Morrissey.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
get a copy of Poet in New York, my favorite of his works.


“…en Nueva York (published 1940; Poet in New York), a series of poems whose dense, at times hallucinatory images, free-verse lines, and thematic preoccupation with urban decay and social injustice mark an audacious departure from Lorca’s previous work. The collection is redolent of Charles Baudelaire, Edgar Allan Poe, T.S. Eliot,…”




The New York dawn has
four columns of mud
and a hurricane of black doves
that paddle in putrescent waters.

The New York dawn grieves
along the immense stairways,
seeking amidst the groins
spikenards of fine-drawn anguish.

The dawn comes and no one receives it in his mouth,
for there no morn or hope is possible.
Occasionally, coins in furious swarms
perforate and devour abandoned children.

The first to come out understand in their bones
that there will be no paradise nor amours stripped of leaves:
they know they are going to the mud of figures and laws,
to artless games, to fruitless sweat.

The light is buried under chains and noises
in impudent challenge of rootless science.
Throught the suburbs sleepless people stagger,
as though just delivered from a shipwreck of blood.
sounds great! i love baudelaire ("be beautiful and be sad") and ts eliot! and also discovering new poets! i will put that one on my list, for sure!!
 

rifke

bodhisattva
It has got to be Famous Blue Raincoat. Or maybe The Stranger Song. Impossible to decide.

Anyway, Brett Anderson was definitely influenced by Morrissey.
famous blue raincoat is defo in my top five!!!!!

I hear that you're building your little house deep in the desert
You're living for nothing now, I hope you're keeping some kind of record

<3
 

Mayfly

Well-Known Member
Colin meloy has for sure been influenced by morrissey. Not many modern musicians really talk very specifically about there lyrics which is I think a shame
That’s right, and also Matt Berninger from the National, I think (at least in the good old days).
And can we add Kirsty MacColl to the list?
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I’m assuming the sundays should be in there as well

Yes all these folks were influenced by Morrissey.

Directly and indirectly. I mean, some artists may even proudly claim to not even own a record of his, but most likely they were or are being influenced by an artist that is directly influenced by Morrissey.


And this is one of the reasons Morrissey is one of the greatest lyricists, as is Dylan.
 

crotty32

Active Member
Bob dylan is unquestionably a better lyricist,over the years his range is incredible taking in folk,county,rock n roll and gospel.Bob Dylan is one of those people I immediately buy their music as I believe every thing they do has merit.Of course Morrissey is another favourite of mine as well as Paul Weller, Neil Young,Tom Waits and many more.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yes all these folks were influenced by Morrissey.

Directly and indirectly. I mean, some artists may even proudly claim to not even own a record of his, but most likely they were or are being influenced by an artist that is directly influenced by Morrissey.


And this is one of the reasons Morrissey is one of the greatest lyricists, as is Dylan.

I don't think art works that way, Ketamine.

Putting Morrissey up there with Dylan is like putting Damien Hirst up there with Picasso.
 
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