The Smiths A-Z: "I Misses You"
- Thread starter BookishBoy
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Amy
from the Ice Age to the dole age
"It was a magical chemistry. I always heard great sadness in his rolling chords and great beauty.”
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
Surface
Chilling in Cheshire.
Of course she will, she's the site snide.
M
Musician
Guest
Actually, as a silent observer here, it’s all your fault (you as in plural). I’m sure KS (along with the thank-God-gone Karen) is someone like a character from one of Ricky Gervais’ sitcom. You know….a sad, no-life, small-town middle-aged woman with no family you supposed to laugh at but feel sad for her. And you guys just feed these people with replies, while in real life you’d just pass by at local Tesco’s while she is sobbing over the vegetable stall or something.
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
I am curious to see what comes out now. Marr's chords were never rolling and without Morrissey no one would have wanted to hear them or anything. Maybe no one would have wanted to hear Morrissey's voice if he had stayed with rocker Duffy in the Nosebleeds. But that's another story.
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
I tried harder, KS. Did you never listen to The The or Electronic. Didn't you take a closer look at his work with Bryan Ferry and Talking Heads in the beginning of his life without Morrissey? Why did those acts want his trademark guitar sound in the first place? Because it's not famous? It's unique just like Morrissey's voice. Both together were larger than life. Stop trying to destroy something that is beyond your belief, just because Marr feels free to say what he likes about Morrissey after 35 years.
D
Deleted member 30524
Guest
Frank... I think there are a lot of people on here who unfortunately have never heard of The Smiths ....
It’s very odd
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
and I replied ....
...
That’s not what P&O wrote.
If P&O wrote... Marr was famous
for a jingle jangle Byrds guitar sound, a sound that he’s known for (famous for) when his contribution to The Smiths is discussed, written about.
Then I wouldn’t have posted my opinion, in hopes that he would tell us how he came to that conclusion.
Or if P&O replied back to me...
well maybe Johnny wasn’t famous for his rolling and warm chords, but the way he is playing on this unreleased Smiths instrumental, at least to me, can be described that way.
A reply, I’m sure, most would have agreed with.
And just because one person (Morrissey) once said "It was a magical chemistry. I always heard great sadness in his rolling chords and great beauty.”
doesn’t make what Marr is famous for in regards to the description usually given to his guitar sound in The Smiths.
Below are just a few examples of what Marr is known for/famous for.
And it’s also the usual description of his sound that would come up when reading about The Smiths during my years of being a fan.
Strangely enough, I didn’t come across the words ‘ rolling and warm
chords’ to describe what Marr was famous for in regards to Marr’s Smiths trademark sound.
‘Rickenbacker 330 – This guitar is most often associated with Marr due to its 'jangly' sound for which he is known’
‘before forming the Smiths with Morrissey in 1982. The Smiths attained commercial success and were critically acclaimed, with Marr's jangle pop guitar style becoming distinctive of the band's sound, but separated in 1987 due to..’
‘Marr's jangly guitar-playing was influenced by Neil Young's work with Crazy Horse, George Harrison (with the Beatles) and James Honeyman-Scott of the Pretenders. During his time in the Smiths, Marr often tuned his guitar up a full step to F♯ to accommodate Morrissey's vocal range, and also used open tunings and is known for creating arpeggio melodies and (sometimes) unusual chord progressions and makes wide use of open strings while chording to create chiming.’
Johnny Marr - Wikipedia
‘These soon paved the way for one of the most influential bands of all time: The Smiths. In “Jingle Jangle Johnny”, writer and guitarist Holly Flynn writes about how Johnny Marr the guitarist of the Smiths, for once had to live with the childish nickname “Jingle-Jangle Johnny” (99). Marr was “a self-confessed melody freak, constantly searching for new soundscapes and intricacies in his Rickenbackers” (Flynn 100). He was known for his right-hand picking technique—perfect for the jangle tone of the Rickenbacker...’
‘Marr’s ethos was pointedly at odds with the bombastic flash of many of rock’s big players, instead opting for an authentic, Rickenbacker-flavoured jangle. Marr’s work rippled with a maturity that belied his young age, at a time when many chart-operators were fancifully trying to bring forward a synth-pop soundtracked future.
Though he took influence from iconic 60s groups like The Byrds..’
The Smiths’ 20 greatest guitar moments, ranked
Johnny Marr’s unparalleled ability for weaving some of the most emotionally-charged, melodically sumptuous guitar parts in the history of pop continues to captivate.
www.google.com
‘But The Smiths lead vocalist isn't the one we're calling Jangle Pop Shakespeare. That title would have to go to The Smith's guitarist, Johnny Marr. All jangle pop artists who came after him were inspired by him in some way, directly or indirectly, and all pioneers who came before him wouldn't be regarded as "jangle pop" if it weren't for him revolutionizing the sound.’
The History of Jangle Pop
Jangle Pop There are a lot of subgenres of rock music. If you grew up with the evolution of rock music, you probably remember their names just as easily as you remember the names of your favorite bands. But if you're a younger fan, some of the names can get a little confusing. One of those...
playalonerecords.com
‘...an excellent example of the ‘jingle-jangle’ sound often associated with Johnny Marr’s guitar style.’
‘Johnny Marr: jingle-jangle genius’
Johnny Marr: jingle-jangle genius
Ever since The Smiths broke up in 1987, some of us have looked despondent, like old cowboys who've just returned from burying one of their gang out by the old corral. A part of us was gone, forever.
m.independent.ie
‘Although critics were quick to label Marr's style as 'Jingle Jangle' ...’
Johnny Marr - Johnny and the Jaguar | Guitar Interactive Magazine
Johnny Marr's multi-layered guitar parts on his '80s recordings with the Smith's influenced and ...
www.guitarinteractivemagazine.com
‘Jingle and jangle are the words most often used to describe Johnny Marr's guitar sound..’
Johnny Marr On Fender Signature Guitar: 'It Was Such A Privilege'
Marr talked at length about the new instrument, life with the Smiths, and how limitations can be a good thing musically speaking.
The threads topic was The Smiths.
Why do you keep on insisting that Marr’s trademark sound was his ‘rolling and warm chords’.
For that IS the description you gave to Marr’s sound (post#15) it is that description that you said he was ‘famous for’. And that is what we are discussing.
If they wanted Marr for his trademark sound, then it is most likely the sound he was known for, which was that ‘jingle-jangle Byrds’ sound that he’s been described as having. Though, yes, he is capable of a lot more.
@SuedeMoz
just because one person (Morrissey) once said "It was a magical chemistry. I always heard great sadness in his rolling chords and great beauty.”
doesn’t make what Marr is famous for in regards to his guitar sound in The Smiths.
nothing to dig. We are discussing
what is and what is not the usual description given to Marr’s Smiths sound or what can be called Marr’s trademark, famous for, known for, guitar sound in The Smiths. And it
is not ‘those rolling and warm chords, that Johnny was famous for’
That’s not to say he’s not capable of displaying that also.
Nope. No need to say that. Because we are only discussing what Smiths sound Marr was famous for, known for, his trademark sound.
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
You don't have a real life, do you? How obsessed and misguided do you have to be, to spend the last 24 hours with this obsessive display? And for what? For what? That Johnny Marr wasn't known for his rolling and warm chords? This is so sad, you really should listen to The Smiths only without music. Alone in the closet. A jingle jangle sound is warm and rolling. I think you still don't get it.
But I'm so happy that Morrissey himself said it, you wouldn't believe it. And I think he knows better than you.
But I'm so happy that Morrissey himself said it, you wouldn't believe it. And I think he knows better than you.
Last edited:
Amy
from the Ice Age to the dole age
"Rolling", "chiming" and "jingle-jangle" are all words describing the same sound - you're acting as though they mean different things, as though Johnny could be famous for one and not for the other.and I replied ....
...
That’s not what P&O wrote.
If P&O wrote... Marr was famous
for a jingle jangle Byrds guitar sound, a sound that he’s known for (famous for) when his contribution to The Smiths is discussed, written about.
Then I wouldn’t have posted my opinion, in hopes that he would tell us how he came to that conclusion.
Or if P&O replied back to me...
well maybe Johnny wasn’t famous for his rolling and warm chords, but the way he is playing on this unreleased Smiths instrumental, at least to me, can be described that way.
A reply, I’m sure, most would have agreed with.
And just because one person (Morrissey) once said "It was a magical chemistry. I always heard great sadness in his rolling chords and great beauty.”
doesn’t make what Marr is famous for in regards to the description usually given to his guitar sound in The Smiths.
Below are just a few examples of what Marr is known for/famous for.
And it’s also the usual description of his sound that would come up when reading about The Smiths during my years of being a fan.
Strangely enough, I didn’t come across the words ‘ rolling and warm
chords’ to describe what Marr was famous for in regards to Marr’s Smiths trademark sound.
‘Rickenbacker 330 – This guitar is most often associated with Marr due to its 'jangly' sound for which he is known’
‘before forming the Smiths with Morrissey in 1982. The Smiths attained commercial success and were critically acclaimed, with Marr's jangle pop guitar style becoming distinctive of the band's sound, but separated in 1987 due to..’
‘Marr's jangly guitar-playing was influenced by Neil Young's work with Crazy Horse, George Harrison (with the Beatles) and James Honeyman-Scott of the Pretenders. During his time in the Smiths, Marr often tuned his guitar up a full step to F♯ to accommodate Morrissey's vocal range, and also used open tunings and is known for creating arpeggio melodies and (sometimes) unusual chord progressions and makes wide use of open strings while chording to create chiming.’
Johnny Marr - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
‘These soon paved the way for one of the most influential bands of all time: The Smiths. In “Jingle Jangle Johnny”, writer and guitarist Holly Flynn writes about how Johnny Marr the guitarist of the Smiths, for once had to live with the childish nickname “Jingle-Jangle Johnny” (99). Marr was “a self-confessed melody freak, constantly searching for new soundscapes and intricacies in his Rickenbackers” (Flynn 100). He was known for his right-hand picking technique—perfect for the jangle tone of the Rickenbacker...’
‘Marr’s ethos was pointedly at odds with the bombastic flash of many of rock’s big players, instead opting for an authentic, Rickenbacker-flavoured jangle. Marr’s work rippled with a maturity that belied his young age, at a time when many chart-operators were fancifully trying to bring forward a synth-pop soundtracked future.
Though he took influence from iconic 60s groups like The Byrds..’
The Smiths’ 20 greatest guitar moments, ranked
Johnny Marr’s unparalleled ability for weaving some of the most emotionally-charged, melodically sumptuous guitar parts in the history of pop continues to captivate.
‘But The Smiths lead vocalist isn't the one we're calling Jangle Pop Shakespeare. That title would have to go to The Smith's guitarist, Johnny Marr. All jangle pop artists who came after him were inspired by him in some way, directly or indirectly, and all pioneers who came before him wouldn't be regarded as "jangle pop" if it weren't for him revolutionizing the sound.’
The History of Jangle Pop
Jangle Pop There are a lot of subgenres of rock music. If you grew up with the evolution of rock music, you probably remember their names just as easily as you remember the names of your favorite bands. But if you're a younger fan, some of the names can get a little confusing. One of those...
‘...an excellent example of the ‘jingle-jangle’ sound often associated with Johnny Marr’s guitar style.’
‘Johnny Marr: jingle-jangle genius’
Johnny Marr: jingle-jangle genius
Ever since The Smiths broke up in 1987, some of us have looked despondent, like old cowboys who've just returned from burying one of their gang out by the old corral. A part of us was gone, forever.
‘Although critics were quick to label Marr's style as 'Jingle Jangle' ...’
Johnny Marr - Johnny and the Jaguar | Guitar Interactive Magazine
Johnny Marr's multi-layered guitar parts on his '80s recordings with the Smith's influenced and ...
‘Jingle and jangle are the words most often used to describe Johnny Marr's guitar sound..’
Johnny Marr On Fender Signature Guitar: 'It Was Such A Privilege'
Marr talked at length about the new instrument, life with the Smiths, and how limitations can be a good thing musically speaking.www.ultimate-guitar.com
The threads topic was The Smiths.
Why do you keep on insisting that Marr’s trademark sound was his ‘rolling and warm chords’.
For that IS the description you gave to Marr’s sound (post#15) it is that description that you said he was ‘famous for’. And that is what we are discussing.
If they wanted Marr for his trademark sound, then it is most likely the sound he was known for, which was that ‘jingle-jangle Byrds’ sound that he’s been described as having. Though, yes, he is capable of a lot more.
@SuedeMoz
just because one person (Morrissey) once said "It was a magical chemistry. I always heard great sadness in his rolling chords and great beauty.”
doesn’t make what Marr is famous for in regards to his guitar sound in The Smiths.
nothing to dig. We are discussing
what is and what is not the usual description given to Marr’s Smiths sound or what can be called Marr’s trademark, famous for, known for, guitar sound in The Smiths. And it
is not ‘those rolling and warm chords, that Johnny was famous for’
That’s not to say he’s not capable of displaying that also.
Nope. No need to say that. Because we are only discussing what Smiths sound Marr was famous for, known for, his trademark sound.
When someone says, "Johnny's rolling chords", they shouldn't have to spell out "that jangly Byrds sound" as though we've never heard it before. You've made an argument out of nothing.
Last edited:
Amy
from the Ice Age to the dole age
This is what I think KS has missed. I don't think it was intentional.
ErsatzHawkChad
New Member
I think what you'd find out from asking random people on the street, is that Johnny Marr isn't actually famous at all.
Though I'd hazard a guess I'd find more fans of his were I to leave Australia.
Though I'd hazard a guess I'd find more fans of his were I to leave Australia.
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
I could see how an arpeggiated guitar playing style/technique can be described as ‘rolling’.
But I never read or heard of a chiming or jingle-jangle guitar sound being described as rolling. Can they be? I guess so, sure.
And I’ve never heard a jingle-jangle
guitar sound being described as ‘warm’.
I would describe chiming or jingle-jangle as bright (treble, but not uncomfortable to the ear) at the same time thick or full because of the resonating strings and maybe something a bit shimmering about it (though maybe that’s not the right word to describe what’s happening in the mid to higher frequencies).
So I wouldn’t necessarily use the word ‘warm’ to describe it. Though a thick guitar tone, can be described as warm to some.
It’s in someways subjective.
‘According to academic/musician Matthew Bannister, the term "implies a more pop, mainstream approach" that is heavily connoted with "indie pure pop". He writes:
Jangle can be understood as a subspecies of drone: trebly, relatively clean (undistorted) guitar sound played in (often) a chordal style: either strummed or arpeggiated (sounding each string in a chord separately) but generally repeating notes (pedal) over the top of a chord sequence. Pedals are normally open strings that also resonate overtones ... This style was strongly identified with 1960s guitar bands, especially the Byrds [and has since] characterised the sound of acts like R.E.M. and The Smiths ..’
Jangle - Wikipedia
But the exchange of posts and the point of my comment has to do with what term is being famously used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
Not different ways to describe his trademark sound.
I’m just going by what term comes up when people have described Marr’s Smiths trademark sound.
And besides Morrissey using the word ‘rolling’.
I’ve never heard it anywhere else.
Nor have I heard the words ‘those rolling and warm chords, that Johnny was famous for’ used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
I personally don’t equate ‘rolling chords’ with ‘"that jangly Byrds sound”. Can they be? I guess so.
But when someone says ‘those rolling and warm chords that Johnny was famous for’
The fact is, that that is not the choice of words or phrase that are famously used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
Which is what my post is about.
It wasn’t up to me that others have decided to turn my post into an argument.
if P&O replied back to me, something like .....
‘well maybe Johnny wasn’t famous for his rolling and warm chords, Ket. But the way he is playing on this unreleased Smiths instrumental, at least to me, can be described that way’.
Then I would have replied back ‘fair enough’ and that would have been the end of that.
Unlike the others posting at me or cowardly about me, thank you for being civil.
D
Deleted member 30524
Guest
No change then ....
Still thinking your better
Than most ......
The.Truth.
Every.Single.Time.
The only word I'm seeing that I wouldn't think of applying to Johnny's guitar sound/style is "warm." There are lots of examples where it does come across as warm and rounded as opposed to bright and angular, but it's just not a word that comes to mind. To contrast if you think of early Talking Heads who also used mostly Fender guitars the guitar sounds are much brighter and no one would call it warm, so it's not that the word is wrong but just an odd choice.
Surface
Chilling in Cheshire.
Shes the site snide Baz
No change then ....
Still thinking your better
Than most ......
Phranc & Open
Dreaming from the past
I mean, what are you going to do when someone obviously feels personally attacked when you use the words "warm" and "rolling" in the context of chords played on a guitar? And when you then have the impudence to say that he is "famous" for it, then of course all dams break. People who harbour such hatred for Johny Marr should definitely sell their The Smiths collection and reorder several copies of IANADOAC. There should still be some left.
I return to my core statement in this thread: the instrumental has potential, the chords roll nicely and the Morrissey Impersonator does a more than decent job. It now sounds like an unfinished idea with vocals that wasn't developed further. A nice little ditty.
I misses The Smiths
Amy
from the Ice Age to the dole age
You've spent a lot of time and energy arguing about something completely trivial, which adds nothing at all to the thread topic.I could see how an arpeggiated guitar playing style/technique can be described as ‘rolling’.
But I never read or heard of a chiming or jingle-jangle guitar sound being described as rolling. Can they be? I guess so, sure.
And I’ve never heard a jingle-jangle
guitar sound being described as ‘warm’.
I would describe chiming or jingle-jangle as bright (treble, but not uncomfortable to the ear) at the same time thick or full because of the resonating strings and maybe something a bit shimmering about it (though maybe that’s not the right word to describe what’s happening in the mid to higher frequencies).
So I wouldn’t necessarily use the word ‘warm’ to describe it. Though a thick guitar tone, can be described as warm to some.
It’s in someways subjective. ‘According to academic/musician Matthew Bannister, the term "implies a more pop, mainstream approach" that is heavily connoted with "indie pure pop". He writes:
Jangle can be understood as a subspecies of drone: trebly, relatively clean (undistorted) guitar sound played in (often) a chordal style: either strummed or arpeggiated (sounding each string in a chord separately) but generally repeating notes (pedal) over the top of a chord sequence. Pedals are normally open strings that also resonate overtones ... This style was strongly identified with 1960s guitar bands, especially the Byrds [and has since] characterised the sound of acts like R.E.M. and The Smiths ..’
Jangle - Wikipedia
But the exchange of posts and the point of my comment has to do with what term is being famously used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
Not different ways to describe his trademark sound.
I’m just going by what term comes up when people have described Marr’s Smiths trademark sound.
And besides Morrissey using the word ‘rolling’.
I’ve never heard it anywhere else.
Nor have I heard the words ‘those rolling and warm chords, that Johnny was famous for’ used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
I personally don’t equate ‘rolling chords’ with ‘"that jangly Byrds sound”. Can they be? I guess so.
But when someone says ‘those rolling and warm chords that Johnny was famous for’
The fact is, that that is not the choice of words or phrase that are famously used to describe Marr’s trademark sound.
Which is what my post is about.
It wasn’t up to me that others have decided to turn my post into an argument.
if P&O replied back to me, something like .....
‘well maybe Johnny wasn’t famous for his rolling and warm chords, Ket. But the way he is playing on this unreleased Smiths instrumental, at least to me, can be described that way’.
Then I would have replied back ‘fair enough’ and that would have been the end of that.
Unlike the others posting at me or cowardly about me, thank you for being civil.
What difference does it make if one fan calls Johnny's style 'jangly' and another calls it 'rolling' or thinks that it's warm - why would you even challenge that? What are you trying to prove? You've honed in on a couple of words and missed Phranc's point by a mile - which was (as far as I can see) just that this piece of music is very Johnny.
"Famous for..." is a common turn of phrase, it's not a fact that implies a person/thing can't be famous for anything else. I could say Somerset was famous for cider or cheese and someone else might say "It's famous for Glastonbury Festival", nobody is wrong. Unbelievably trivial.
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