The shame of beloved Mexico - Morrissey statement at true-to-you.net

 

[bhops]

You replied to my point about a Strawman argument with one of your very own. Have a look here... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

And let me ask you too - on this very specific point, and yes or no - do you share Morrissey's delight at the suffering of a creature, a human?

P.

I'll answer this, yes, yes I do. This woman got everything she deserved. EVERYTHING. Humans are (allegedly) we have the ability to show remorse, compassion we have the ability to live by an ethical code, we have the choice of morality which other members of the animal kingdom do not. we have these characteristics and she chooses to do something barbaric for a living and apparently with little remorse. I think that is the part that gets me the most. People can change, people can see the light and most of the time I'd be prepared to give them a second chance, except in extreme cases. However this woman's only regret appears to be that she didn't have the opportunity to slice its ear off.I have no compassion for someone that has no compassion.

Hey maybe you're a more highly evolved being than me, maybe this makes me a bad person, maybe this makes me contradictory and maybe even hypocritical but it is the way I feel about this particular situation and always have about bullfighting, Morrissey statement or no Morrissey statement. I've always loved it when the bull wins and always will. My only disappointment is that the bull doesn't win more often.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Why should I take part in your silly games?

Delight is too strong a word, I feel absolutely no sympathy.

And there we have it. You can't do it.

 

[Anonymous]

yeah im with charlie, part of me does feel a bit that way. people are conflicted creatures by nature

 

[2-J]

I hope Morrissey will be returning the Pestana money and issuing a swift condemnation of them on TTY.

 

[BrummieBoy]

I think it is a bit idealistic to assert no humans should suffer and subsequently sit in judgement of some else's view of said.
The nice (religious or non religious) Buddhist-esque view that all sentient beings should be free from harm is wonderful.
Unfortunately, in the real world, we sit in our comfortable social constructs deciding what things we really should be concerned about from our armchairs.
To talk about absolutes in morality arguments is a bit daft.
The logical extent of the all human life is sacred argument is that everyone who has helps everyone who has not. That might actually involve people getting off their complacent asses/arses and going to help sick and starving people/animals in other countries. We all know this form of idealism does not exist in any kind of pure form. If you accept that, you can accept a singer might prefer a human to suffer rather than the animal being executed in front of an audience. What ever his shortcomings, he is allowed his view and probably only people living a perfect, ideal life can cast judgement.
My tuppence,
FWD

"To talk about absolutes in morality arguments is a bit daft."

Meat Is Murder....

"That might actually involve people getting off their complacent asses/arses and going to help sick and starving people/animals in other countries. "

Is there any evidence that Morrissey has any interest in bullfighting beyond using it as a song-writing prop? Is he actually part of any campaign to end it? I've never seen his name mentioned. Or maybe he could do a Bob Geldof and do a "Bull Aid" version of 'The Bullfighter Dies' with other celebrities.


best
BB

[h=1]"Celebrities Against Bullfighting
[/h]Featured below are some of the celebrities who support the League's anti-Bullfighting campaign."

http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/bullfighting/celebrities-against-bullfighting

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

And there we have it. You can't do it.

Ok, to play the Uncleskinny game of the purely black and white world where everything must be yes or no. If I had to choose between your shameful or Morrissey's delight then I'm going with delight. But I'm somewhere in between, but how could that be so, it's just so strawman.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Mexico has bullfighting and Brazil has rodeio.
It's as disgusting as bullfighting. It's also not a sport it's murder.

 

[Surface]

So you care about nothing apart from people taking up space on a forum posting their views, that's so annoying!
Would it suite you better if it was full of agreeing yes people ?
That attack on Miss Reality exposes you as well, what has she done to you that you respond like that about her ?

Miss Reality I apologise for his comments, I see him as a work in progress there is good in everybody with the exception of our Crank of course.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Look Benny/Brummie take sometime to read some of your responses to posts and you will realise that you are nothing more than a school yard bully. I don't think the site should be made up of agreeing yes people but you and a couple of others do not let reasoned debate take place.
You collectively gang up on people who might have an alternate view to yours ( Reality simply jumps on your band wagon) in a sickening attempt to intimidate them.

As I said I don't think the site should be full of agreeing yes people but there is a difference between reasoned debate and ramming your views down everyone's throat but that's what bullies do isn't it.

benny the bully, your parents would be proud of you

 

[Anonymous]

I hope Morrissey will be returning the Pestana money and issuing a swift condemnation of them on TTY.

donate the money but im guessing hed have a contract with a mention of defamation in it

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

yeah im with charlie, part of me does feel a bit that way. people are conflicted creatures by nature

I feel for you, we seem to be very aligned, often, ha!

 

[Anonymous]

Look Benny/Brummie take sometime to read some of your responses to posts and you will realise that you are nothing more than a school yard bully. I don't think the site should be made up of agreeing yes people but you and a couple of others do not let reasoned debate take place.
You collectively gang up on people who might have an alternate view to yours ( Reality simply jumps on your band wagon) in a sickening attempt to intimidate them.

As I said I don't think the site should be full of agreeing yes people but there is a difference between reasoned debate and ramming your views down everyone's throat but that's what bullies do isn't it.

benny the bully, your parents would be proud of you

It's all a way of dealing with being jealous of a man with talent, looks, fame, and money who travels the world singing for adoring fans.

 

[realitybites]

I have no interest in where he stays Benny/Brummie? So no its not a car crash for me and I don't care who he is involved with. What does bother me is people taking up pages and pages on this website writing shit on headlines that some may find interesting to have a proper debate over.

You Benny, who is also Brummie simply come here to wind folk up and others such as that dried up fanny Reality Bites simply agree with you like the cling on she is.

On the subject of bullfighting I don't think its a sport at all, I am am not delighted to see someone gored, however if you get in the ring with a bull, there is a good chance you will get a horn up your backside

You are a misogynist. And should be ashamed for writing that. Were you raised in a barn?

- - - Updated - - -

Look Benny/Brummie take sometime to read some of your responses to posts and you will realise that you are nothing more than a school yard bully. I don't think the site should be made up of agreeing yes people but you and a couple of others do not let reasoned debate take place.
You collectively gang up on people who might have an alternate view to yours ( Reality simply jumps on your band wagon) in a sickening attempt to intimidate them.

As I said I don't think the site should be full of agreeing yes people but there is a difference between reasoned debate and ramming your views down everyone's throat but that's what bullies do isn't it.

benny the bully, your parents would be proud of you

You make me ill.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Regarding logic, I think this is one of Morrissey's most well-thought TTY posts with consideration of equating the unfair advantage of the bull fighter to the bull and how it is not a true fight. I thought he approached it without emotion and quite logically. He lost it with the personal appeal that she and her cohorts be harmed, as an advocate of "cruelty-free" he would ideally carry that idea forward and not hope the human be hurt. BUT I think he has a right to express that in the fairness of an even fight, he's rooting for the bull to gore her, much like an entire coliseum roots for the matador to gore the bull.

Logically the argument went awry when he brought in Guantanamo. They are as human as the bullfighter. So his pleas to equate the bull to the prisoners could be met in debate with the correlation that the bullfighter is one of those prisoners. See what I mean? He often gets stuck is syllogistic muck, he offers too much information and flourishes it with natural emotion while rooting for the bull making his argument dismissible, but he's almost there.

Once he hones it and pulls the tricks out, the John Olivers and Rachel Maddows can start talking about his ideas in the mainstream, but their idea screeners fluff over illogic and move on to the next story that has a firm base to start a discussion.

I think he did really good though. And admit Peter, your cries of "shameful" are rooted in your ideal vision of Moz that he play fair and be civil like a good English tea timer. I think he can play dirty so long as he presents solid ideas to start with. Let's not forget he's a poet, not a politico.

Are you seriously suggesting that Morrissey is at the cutting edge of opinion formation? That John Olivers and Rachel Maddows would refrain from discussing a topic until Morrissey had 'honed' his views? Nonsense.

Yes, he's a poet. "gaga in Malaga" being one of his finest rhymes.

best
BB

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I'll answer this, yes, yes I do. This woman got everything she deserved. EVERYTHING. Humans are (allegedly) we have the ability to show remorse, compassion we have the ability to live by an ethical code, we have the choice of morality which other members of the animal kingdom do not. we have these characteristics and she chooses to do something barbaric for a living and apparently with little remorse. I think that is the part that gets me the most. People can change, people can see the light and most of the time I'd be prepared to give them a second chance, except in extreme cases. However this woman's only regret appears to be that she didn't have the opportunity to slice its ear off.I have no compassion for someone that has no compassion.

Hey maybe you're a more highly evolved being than me, maybe this makes me a bad person, maybe this makes me contradictory and maybe even hypocritical but it is the way I feel about this particular situation and always have about bullfighting, Morrissey statement or no Morrissey statement. I've always loved it when the bull wins and always will. My only disappointment is that the bull doesn't win more often.

I think rather than calling upon a woman to stand up to cruelty in the ring who is fighting her own battle of being recognized as a woman bullfighter, the REAL problem is not with the fighters, but with the concept of tradición. The Spanish are very steeped in tradition. Tradition blinds people to cruelty. We HAVE to kill the bulls because we've been doing it for years. Even very educated and intelligent people become ensnared in the tenets of tradition as evidenced by the interview in Wink touting luxury hotels, it is a traditional custom that lavishness = success. Peer pressure to look successful is as traditional as goring a bull when you get down to it. (This is the hypocrite argument they're trying to make.)

 

[realitybites]

So you care about nothing apart from people taking up space on a forum posting their views, that's so annoying!
Would it suite you better if it was full of agreeing yes people ?
That attack on Miss Reality exposes you as well, what has she done to you that you respond like that about her ?

Miss Reality I apologise for his comments, I see him as a work in progress there is good in everybody with the exception of our Crank of course.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Thanks Benny.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Are you seriously suggesting that Morrissey is at the cutting edge of opinion formation? That John Olivers and Rachel Maddows would refrain from discussing a topic until Morrissey had 'honed' his views? Nonsense.

Yes, he's a poet. "gaga in Malaga" being one of his finest rhymes.

best
BB

Do you like animals? (Yes.) Does Morrissey put animal welfare in the media more than any other entertainer? (Yes.) Why are you attacking the wrong thing? Why are you attacking our best shot at a VOICE for animals? Is it because YOU want to be that voice? I don't understand your motivation for relentlessly slagging him unless you aim to educate him to be a better arguer and if that's what you attempting to do it isn't working because you waste too much time trying to be witty and not succeeding. We need to f***ing tighten up the bootstraps and HELP OUR VOICE or it's clear to me you do not like animals at all. You like you.

 

[Mozza220559]

Brummie's the type to f*** his fat arsehole with a frozen bratwurst and use goosefat as lube

 

[evennow]

Moz is dead right. She got what she deserved. Poor bull can't win. If the bullfighter really enjoys sport she should be left in a forest for a day with other people hunting her. See how she feels then and how 'sporting' she finds it.

I have thought this before...but then that becomes all a bit Hunger Games. Veg vs. Carn is a debate that might go on forever, but the killing of an innocent animal for sport. How can this still be allowed? I believe England put an end to fox hunting. And the people who purchase tickets to watch the slaughter...what does it say about them? I think we all can agree that there is no room for such barbarity today. Can there be another side to this other than tying it to part of their culture?

 

[BrummieBoy]

Look Benny/Brummie take sometime to read some of your responses to posts and you will realise that you are nothing more than a school yard bully. I don't think the site should be made up of agreeing yes people but you and a couple of others do not let reasoned debate take place.
You collectively gang up on people who might have an alternate view to yours ( Reality simply jumps on your band wagon) in a sickening attempt to intimidate them.

As I said I don't think the site should be full of agreeing yes people but there is a difference between reasoned debate and ramming your views down everyone's throat but that's what bullies do isn't it.

benny the bully, your parents would be proud of you

Whereas you quote from a Holocaust denial blog to bolster your absurd arguments.

best
BB

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Brummie's the type to f*** his fat arsehole with a frozen bratwurst and use goosefat as lube

Hahaha