The shame of beloved Mexico - Morrissey statement at true-to-you.net

 

[BrummieBoy]

I think the assumption is that Morrissey has an army of researchers and aides at his beckon call. The reality is, he doesn't and the Pestana interview proceeded. Really, big deal...

And as far as Reality Bites pathetic pom-pomming for P's comment, if someone stands before me intent on skewering me, they have waived their right to my compassion and anyone else's. Do you ever have an independent thought?

He doesn't need anyone. It took seconds to find on Google. If he can find YouTube footage that leads him to dismiss 1.3billion Chinese as a 'sub-species', it's not unreasonable to suggest he might google 'Pestana bullfight' before booking his trip.

He has someone to grind his salt can't bother to check whether he's supporting a hotel chain that offers 50% discounts for bullfighting fans?

I agree with others on this thread that Morrissey's ill-will towards the injured matador is disturbing. She is a victim of a belief system and is in need of education and support to change. If he wishes 'the very worst' on bullfighters, one can only assume he wishes the same fate for the vast majority of his audience who eat meat and are thus guilty of 'murder'. He eats cheese, but doesn't see his behaviour as contributing to cow abuse. Does a prize fighter bull suffer more or less than a dairy heiffer or a veal calf?

best
BB

 

[Surface]

Surface what do you make of Pestana-gate ?
It's a big car crash isn't it ?
Have you read everything that BB has uncovered ? Do you think he's made it up ?
Morrissey wouldn't be involved with such people would he?
Let's have your take on the matter instead of your usual ways of communicating with people you don't agree with.
I look forward to your views.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

I have no interest in where he stays Benny/Brummie? So no its not a car crash for me and I don't care who he is involved with. What does bother me is people taking up pages and pages on this website writing shit on headlines that some may find interesting to have a proper debate over.

You Benny, who is also Brummie simply come here to wind folk up and others such as that dried up fanny Reality Bites simply agree with you like the cling on she is.

On the subject of bullfighting I don't think its a sport at all, I am am not delighted to see someone gored, however if you get in the ring with a bull, there is a good chance you will get a horn up your backside

 

[sorrow of stamford bridge]

Let's recall that here we have Morrissey railing against those who cause suffering to a creature (bull) by delighting in the suffering of another creature (a human). The cognitive dissonance must be deafening. Just run that by yourself again - he doesn't like suffering of one creature, so is delighted by the suffering of another. That's not me editorialising - that's stone cold fact from his own statement. And it's shameful. Almost as shameful, and putting the tin hat on this, is his pleasure in providing a puffpiece to an organisation enabling the bull-fighting audience.

P.

If a human is hell-bent on destroying a bull for 'sport' and is maimed or killed in the process, they really do deserve all they get. If we were talking about one human murdering another, should we be obliged to feel compassion for the killer?

With regards to Pestana, I am sure that had Morrissey known about their sponsorship of bullfighting, the interview wouldn't have happened.

 

[Uncleskinny]

If a human is hell-bent on destroying a bull for 'sport' and is maimed or killed in the process, they really do deserve all they get. If we were talking about one human murdering another, should we be obliged to feel compassion for the killer?

With regards to Pestana, I am sure that had Morrissey known about their sponsorship of bullfighting, the interview wouldn't have happened.

On your first point - Strawman argument.

On your second point - agreed.

I'm interested to know if you share Morrissey's delight at knowing a creature, a human, is suffering - yes or no?

P.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I don't wish this woman permanent injury, but I wouldn't shed a tear if she woke up on damp mornings from now on and suffered the odd twinge, just as a reminder of the day things didn't go to plan.

Bullfighting is no longer a solely cultural endeavour, it is a tourist excursion, particularly in Spain. As such we could have kept bear baiting here in England and found some perverts to pay to see it, as they wend their way between the Palace of Westminster and Tower Bridge.

We don't because it is reprehensible in the modern age. So is bullfighting.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

On your first point - Strawman argument.

On your second point - agreed.

I'm interested to know if you share Morrissey's delight at knowing a creature, a human, is suffering - yes or no?

P.

You've got me thinking, given a choice should we...

a. get a petition going to get Peter Sutcliffe released. His suffering is just a terrible thing.

b. take great delight when he was stabbed in both eyes with a pencil.

I'm going with option b.

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I don't wish this woman permanent injury, but I wouldn't shed a tear if she woke up on damp mornings from now on and suffered the odd twinge, just as a reminder of the day things didn't go to plan.

Bullfighting is no longer a solely cultural endeavour, it is a tourist excursion, particularly in Spain. As such we could have kept bear baiting here in England and found some perverts to pay to see it, as they wend their way between the Palace of Westminster and Tower Bridge.

We don't because it is reprehensible in the modern age. So is bullfighting.

Good point JB.

 

[Anonymous]

i dont feel bad for child abusers who get hurt in the act when there victims defend themselves. yes this is extreme but to the fearful bull being murdered maybe not so mcuh

 

[Anonymous]

pesta has millions and puts money in moz pocket hence they get a pass despite their opprobrious pro bullfighting patronage. the woman bullfighter does not put any money in his pocket so she gets the death wish.

 

[Uncleskinny]

You've got me thinking, given a choice should we...

a. get a petition going to get Peter Sutcliffe released. His suffering is just a terrible thing.

b. take great delight when he was stabbed in both eyes with a pencil.

I'm going with option b.

You replied to my point about a Strawman argument with one of your very own. Have a look here... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

And let me ask you too - on this very specific point, and yes or no - do you share Morrissey's delight at the suffering of a creature, a human?

P.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

You replied to my point about a Strawman argument with one of your very own. Have a look here... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

And let me ask you too - on this very specific point, and yes or no - do you share Morrissey's delight at the suffering of a creature, a human?

P.

Oh, you said Strawman again. That was original. Is there anything that isn't?

I'm my own man, I don't look to Morrissey or jump to his defence or slam him, my own stance is pretty much what JB said.

 

[Famous when dead]

I think it is a bit idealistic to assert no humans should suffer and subsequently sit in judgement of some else's view of said.
The nice (religious or non religious) Buddhist-esque view that all sentient beings should be free from harm is wonderful.
Unfortunately, in the real world, we sit in our comfortable social constructs deciding what things we really should be concerned about from our armchairs.
To talk about absolutes in morality arguments is a bit daft.
The logical extent of the all human life is sacred argument is that everyone who has helps everyone who has not. That might actually involve people getting off their complacent asses/arses and going to help sick and starving people/animals in other countries. We all know this form of idealism does not exist in any kind of pure form. If you accept that, you can accept a singer might prefer a human to suffer rather than the animal being executed in front of an audience. What ever his shortcomings, he is allowed his view and probably only people living a perfect, ideal life can cast judgement.
My tuppence,
FWD

 

[Uncleskinny]

Oh, you said Strawman again. That was original. Is there anything that isn't?

I'm my own man, I don't look to Morrissey or jump to his defence or slam him, my own stance is pretty much what JB said.

You didn't answer my question. But that's OK.

P.

 

[Anonymous]

<3 moz

lol @ the trolls on this site who give two shits about this c***.

 

[Anonymous]

I have no interest in where he stays Benny/Brummie? So no its not a car crash for me and I don't care who he is involved with. What does bother me is people taking up pages and pages on this website writing shit on headlines that some may find interesting to have a proper debate over.

You Benny, who is also Brummie simply come here to wind folk up and others such as that dried up fanny Reality Bites simply agree with you like the cling on she is.

On the subject of bullfighting I don't think its a sport at all, I am am not delighted to see someone gored, however if you get in the ring with a bull, there is a good chance you will get a horn up your backside

So you care about nothing apart from people taking up space on a forum posting their views, that's so annoying!
Would it suite you better if it was full of agreeing yes people ?
That attack on Miss Reality exposes you as well, what has she done to you that you respond like that about her ?

Miss Reality I apologise for his comments, I see him as a work in progress there is good in everybody with the exception of our Crank of course.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

 

[CrystalGeezer]

You replied to my point about a Strawman argument with one of your very own. Have a look here... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Regarding logic, I think this is one of Morrissey's most well-thought TTY posts with consideration of equating the unfair advantage of the bull fighter to the bull and how it is not a true fight. I thought he approached it without emotion and quite logically. He lost it with the personal appeal that she and her cohorts be harmed, as an advocate of "cruelty-free" he would ideally carry that idea forward and not hope the human be hurt. BUT I think he has a right to express that in the fairness of an even fight, he's rooting for the bull to gore her, much like an entire coliseum roots for the matador to gore the bull.

Logically the argument went awry when he brought in Guantanamo. They are as human as the bullfighter. So his pleas to equate the bull to the prisoners could be met in debate with the correlation that the bullfighter is one of those prisoners. See what I mean? He often gets stuck is syllogistic muck, he offers too much information and flourishes it with natural emotion while rooting for the bull making his argument dismissible, but he's almost there.

Once he hones it and pulls the tricks out, the John Olivers and Rachel Maddows can start talking about his ideas in the mainstream, but their idea screeners fluff over illogic and move on to the next story that has a firm base to start a discussion.

I think he did really good though. And admit Peter, your cries of "shameful" are rooted in your ideal vision of Moz that he play fair and be civil like a good English tea timer. I think he can play dirty so long as he presents solid ideas to start with. Let's not forget he's a poet, not a politico.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

You didn't answer my question. But that's OK.

P.

I did, my view is that while I wouldn't wish harm on anyone I'm not going to shed any tears when somebody who goes out to hurt other beings gets theirs.

So if you're looking at whether I align myself with Morrissey - to be honest I don't usually check how aligned my opinions are with Morrissey's but as you ask - I haven't got a problem with his stance because he's his own man and he can say whatever the f*** he likes whether I agree with him or not.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but you are arguing because she did something terrible in the public arena she should suffer. What about the hundreds of thousands of people you don't know about in the meat industry killing every day? You should also direct your ire at them. But l don't want to lose sight of my original point here, and here are the exact words: "I felt delight this week to see serial killer Karla de los Angeles justifiably gored". Taking delight in a creature's suffering? He should be ashamed. Utterly ashamed. And I know there'll be an avalanche of people on this thread defending what he said, in Karmic or other terms, but the black and white of it is he is taking pleasure in a creature's suffering, who happens to be a human. And it is shameful.

P.

As much as I love Morrissey I must say I so agree with you! ALL life is sacred, including humans! And you need to respect ALL.

 

[Uncleskinny]

I did, my view is that while I wouldn't wish harm on anyone I'm not going to shed any tears when somebody who goes out to hurt other beings gets theirs.

So if you're looking at whether I align myself with Morrissey - to be honest I don't usually check how aligned my opinions are with Morrissey's but as you ask - I haven't got a problem with his stance because he's his own man and he can say whatever the f*** he likes whether I agree with him or not.

No, I asked you very specifically this question, and wanted a yes or no answer: do you share Morrissey's delight at the suffering of a creature, a human?

Can you do it?

P.

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And admit Peter, your cries of "shameful" are rooted in your ideal vision of Moz that he play fair and be civil like a good English tea timer. I think he can play dirty so long as he presents solid ideas to start with. Let's not forget he's a poet, not a politico.

Wrong. My cries of shameful are rooted, no more or less, in his delight in the suffering of a creature, in this case a human. That's it.

P.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

No, I asked you very specifically this question, and wanted a yes or no answer: do you share Morrissey's delight at the suffering of a creature, a human?

Can you do it?

P.

Why should I take part in your silly games?

Delight is too strong a word, I feel absolutely no sympathy.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

(My friend is a comedian who punches up jokes for John Oliver. His team of writers literally sit on the internet looking for stories to write about just like Morrissey's TTY statement, but they avoid stories with loopholes that aren't grounded in fact and sound ideas. THEY want to add the flourishes and color.)

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Wrong. My cries of shameful are rooted, no more or less, in his delight in the suffering of a creature, in this case a human. That's it.

P.

Fair enough.