"The Queen Is Dead" 12" vinyl (2017, Warner Bros. UK) listed on Discogs - Help needed

hello there everyone
I need help with this release
I have a copy and a few copies to sell
These are proper, legitimate Warner releases
and still i find ZERO info on any website, forum, anywhere
I have practically checked everything and found no info whatsoever
which seems very strange indeed....
anyone knows about this? maybe someone also has a copy????
mail me or write here, ok?

https://www.discogs.com/The-Smiths-The-Queen-Is-Dead/release/9690729
[email protected]

Tracklist
A1 The Queen Is Dead 6:05
B1 Oscillate Wildly 3:26
B2 Money Changes Everything 4:10
B3 The Draize Train 5:08

 

[Cornflakes]

The only thing that really points away from this being official is the lower-case "i". But, at the same time, it seems hard to imagine that a bootlegger familiar enough with Morrissey to do the Joyce/voice thing, source a vintage label design and Morrissey's backdrop images, do all the writing and production credits would miss something so obvious. Possibility: this is a mis-pressing because of the "i".

 

[Anonymous]

The non-capitalised 'i' is pretty minor stuff. Don't forget the monstrosity that was the 'Live at Earl's Court' LP, with 'First in the Gang to Die', 'Big Mouth Strikes Again' and 'The World is Full of Crashing Boars' - and that was a 100% official release that made it to the shops! https://www.discogs.com/Morrissey-Live-At-Earls-Court/release/1817769

 

[Anonymous]

The only thing that really points away from this being official is the lower-case "i". But, at the same time, it seems hard to imagine that a bootlegger familiar enough with Morrissey to do the Joyce/voice thing, source a vintage label design and Morrissey's backdrop images, do all the writing and production credits would miss something so obvious. Possibility: this is a mis-pressing because of the "i".

And the fact that no ones ever heard of it and it came out if nowhere, in Hungary of all places, sold by a guy who has nothing to substantiate it.

 

[Anonymous]

And the fact that no ones ever heard of it and it came out if nowhere, in Hungary of all places, sold by a guy who has nothing to substantiate it.

None of that points to it being fake, though. It's just that we don't know.

You wouldn't necessarily expect a release scheduled for 2017 to have been announced anywhere, so naturally no-one's ever heard of it. And why not Hungary? Or Slovakia or wherever else they are turning up? If these are mispressings or surplus copies that have floated out of a factory window, it wouldn't be surprising if they turned up in the part of the world where they were pressed. Do Warners use a pressing plant in Central Europe? I don't know, but it doesn't seem obviously unlikely.

 

[Anonymous]

None of that points to it being fake, though. It's just that we don't know.

You wouldn't necessarily expect a release scheduled for 2017 to have been announced anywhere, so naturally no-one's ever heard of it. And why not Hungary? Or Slovakia or wherever else they are turning up? If these are mispressings or surplus copies that have floated out of a factory window, it wouldn't be surprising if they turned up in the part of the world where they were pressed. Do Warners use a pressing plant in Central Europe? I don't know, but it doesn't seem obviously unlikely.

According to the chart it was scheduled for 2016 but just has marks that say 2017. I would expect something scheduled for 2016 to have been talked about somewhere by the time it got to pressing them. It would seem we're not gonna know anything until someone comments but it still looks more sketchy to me than not at the moment. Could be the silence is due to maybe it's impending release but who knows

 

[Anonymous]

Read through all the comments and I've come to the conclusion that this is either real or it's fake. That much I'm certain of.

 

[Anonymous]

The most likely explanation is that it's an official release that has got delayed/cancelled/isn't due for release yet, and someone has accidentally let some sneak out the back of the warehouse. Maybe there are also pallets full of 'Boy with the Thorn' 7"s and 'World Peace' re-issues sat somewhere that were pressed up but are tied up with red tape due to the usual legal arguments that seem to follow Morrissey around? Hell - maybe the release was cancelled, and these were due to be destroyed, but someone snuck a couple of boxes out the back door?

For me, the big thing pointing against it being a bootleg, is that it seems so pointless. There are no exclusive unreleased tracks here (I really don't think snipping off a few seconds of the start of 'The Queen is Dead' is going to get anyone excited), and to press vinyl, you would need to do it in the hundreds of units. It's not like running off a couple of fake CR-R promo bootlegs at home, and flogging them on discogs/ebay - it's just not practical to do that by mass producing runs of vinyl. If someone was going to press up 500 or 1,000 vinyl LP bootlegs, they'd put some unreleased tracks on there, to give them some sort of selling angle. This is such a pointless release, it MUST be official.

 

[ordinaryboy86]

http://boards.vinylcollective.com/topic/124700-smiths-queen-is-dead-12-single/

My knee-jerk reaction was Bootleg and probably still is, but these pics have gone someway to changing my mind, the item looks quality in fairness.

 

[Cornflakes]

(I really don't think snipping off a few seconds of the start of 'The Queen is Dead' is going to get anyone excited).

This is another point in favour of it being official. It's obvious why Warners would snip the intro - it saves them a licencing fee. They've done the same thing before. But why would a bootlegger do it?

 

[Anonymous]

The most likely explanation is that it's an official release that has got delayed/cancelled/isn't due for release yet, and someone has accidentally let some sneak out the back of the warehouse. Maybe there are also pallets full of 'Boy with the Thorn' 7"s and 'World Peace' re-issues sat somewhere that were pressed up but are tied up with red tape due to the usual legal arguments that seem to follow Morrissey around? Hell - maybe the release was cancelled, and these were due to be destroyed, but someone snuck a couple of boxes out the back door?

For me, the big thing pointing against it being a bootleg, is that it seems so pointless. There are no exclusive unreleased tracks here (I really don't think snipping off a few seconds of the start of 'The Queen is Dead' is going to get anyone excited), and to press vinyl, you would need to do it in the hundreds of units. It's not like running off a couple of fake CR-R promo bootlegs at home, and flogging them on discogs/ebay - it's just not practical to do that by mass producing runs of vinyl. If someone was going to press up 500 or 1,000 vinyl LP bootlegs, they'd put some unreleased tracks on there, to give them some sort of selling angle. This is such a pointless release, it MUST be official.

I don't know I think the idea of putting out unreleased songs would make it look faker and the idea of it being a rare official release is what's driving up the price. The idea of it being canceled and a few slipping out would make sense in a way but I still don't know why it would say 2017 if it was a canceled release from 2016. Maybe it just got pushed back and then canceled but I don't know. I guess we'll see about record store day soon as that would be the ideal time to release something like this. Also morrissey has mentioned other releases that didn't happen at least not yet but not this one. If it got as far as being pressed up why wouldn't he say something about it like usual. Everything about this thing is just odd

 

[billybu69]

I don't know I think the idea of putting out unreleased songs would make it look faker and the idea of it being a rare official release is what's driving up the price. The idea of it being canceled and a few slipping out would make sense in a way but I still don't know why it would say 2017 if it was a canceled release from 2016. Maybe it just got pushed back and then canceled but I don't know. I guess we'll see about record store day soon as that would be the ideal time to release something like this. Also morrissey has mentioned other releases that didn't happen at least not yet but not this one. If it got as far as being pressed up why wouldn't he say something about it like usual. Everything about this thing is just odd

I've been rethinking the RSD thing, the list shows a 7" and 12", and they don't do that for RSD. One or the other, boxset, pic disc, 7 or 12", not both.

 

[Anonymous]

Crikey you boneheads.
This is OBVIOUSLY is legitimate a release that was planned and pulled and a box or two "fell off the lorry". Why would a bootlegger go though all this trouble for 4 songs THAT WE ALREADY RELEASED 30 plus fookin' years ago?

 

[Anonymous]

I've been rethinking the RSD thing, the list shows a 7" and 12", and they don't do that for RSD. One or the other, boxset, pic disc, 7 or 12", not both.

Then I've no idea what to think at this point. I'm not even a real vinyl collector I'm just super intrigued by the mystery

 

[Anonymous]

Crikey you boneheads.
This is OBVIOUSLY is legitimate a release that was planned and pulled and a box or two "fell off the lorry". Why would a bootlegger go though all this trouble for 4 songs THAT WE ALREADY RELEASED 30 plus fookin' years ago?

Because it makes it look legitimate and worth more as there are only a few copies circulating. Same reason promo copies and rare singles of songs they have on other formats are more collectible. If people were looking for unreleased rare songs they'd be looking online on some torrent. If it was some rare unreleased music everyone would know it was fake and just go look for the songs there and the internet has made rare things on records less relevant

 

[Anonymous]

Because it makes it look legitimate and worth more as there are only a few copies circulating.

But you cannot just walk into a pressing planet and press up 5 copies of a vinyl release so it's 'super rare' - you have to press up hundreds of the buggers or it's hugely uneconomical, and would cost so much no bootlegger would make his money back. I just don't think the maths add up on this.

 

[Nikey]

Seeing the Matrix: G-Z is that something GZ media would use (GZ is the biggest pressing plant of Europe)

 

[Anonymous]

But you cannot just walk into a pressing planet and press up 5 copies of a vinyl release so it's 'super rare' - you have to press up hundreds of the buggers or it's hugely uneconomical, and would cost so much no bootlegger would make his money back. I just don't think the maths add up on this.

There are places online that'll make a vinyl mix tape for you. It's not as hard to make a record anymore yourself

 

[Famous when dead]

But you cannot just walk into a pressing planet and press up 5 copies of a vinyl release so it's 'super rare' - you have to press up hundreds of the buggers or it's hugely uneconomical, and would cost so much no bootlegger would make his money back. I just don't think the maths add up on this.

Forgetting this record for a moment, I'd just use this example of how preconceived views can cloud judgement. Firstly, a couple of people have applied poor logic:
'Bootleggers behave like X, this situation doesn't fit X, therefore it's not a bootleg'.
Well, that all hinges on whether 'X' behaviour is really what is going on.
So... your assumption is you need a pressing plant to make vinyl - and large quantities to make it worth while. That's erroneous to start with. Vinyl bootlegs were made in the 80's in a variety of places that never went near pressing plants - some did, but not all. Also, making vinyl wasn't as expensive as you'd think in the 80's and today, with its resurgence - very cheap to do. Back then, I physically watched it myself - amounts varied - stickers applied by hand etc in bedrooms and garages. Now quantity: more logic issues - so a bootlegger MUST make loads as maximising money is why it's done - nope. Maybe in some cases, but just look at the coloured vinyl counterfeits people still collect. Do you really think finding one or two copies of a coloured vinyl at a record fair in over 30 years is signs of unscrupulous people maximising profit potential? People snap them up so why aren't they churned out in massive numbers?
The other anon's logic is off too: If you are going to press 500-1000 records, they would include rare tracks to increase sales therefore it MUST be real. Again, a concrete view of people's motivations - are there any other possible explanations? How about a disgruntled fan making a few copies to create a bit of chaos in the Moz community (you only need to see the fake garbage that appears here to see that it happens). The kudos someone might get for hoaxing people could be motivation enough. A fan would know the QID back story of Moz 'begging' for a release and may have gone to recent gigs and found back drops that fit etc. Similarly, if I made a few copies of something to fit an ultra rare story, I would love to be able to go on discogs and type the information myself that validates its existence. I'd most certainly test the water with a couple of sales and then perhaps double or triple the price thereafter... Some people could see the benefit of selling a few for a lot of money rather than saturate the market. As for location, I think that it doesn't take a rocket science degree to realise that certain places may have a less strict policy on fakes and trade openly in them (Eastern Europe, Brazil, Russia...) so when things appear there first, some caution should be taken. Like only 1-2 record shops (both near identical) in the entire world that happen to save .xls files online highlighting picture discs that morph in to something else - yet not a single person otherwise doing similar. Even our 'expert' on the other site has gone quiet. I have approached Warners in a variety of ways for provenance with zero help - oddly, this person has a Warners contact that gives up the entire back story - naming names and reasons that never made any form of news ever.
I'd suggest inquisitive skepticism will always beat concrete thinking every time in looking for provenance to stop people getting stung. I'd also suggest considering all possible motivations for something rather than sticking with one preconceived idea at the expense of all others.
Essay ends,
Regards,
FWD.
(and yes, TL;DR - even me).

 

[Famous when dead]

Seeing the Matrix: G-Z is that something GZ media would use (GZ is the biggest pressing plant of Europe)

Discogs (well whoever typed it in) says the matrix runout is '12QID2016-A G-Z RM' - it would be interesting to see a photo to confirm if the matrix runout in the deadwax differs from the sticker and sleeve.
Regards,
FWD.

 

[Anonymous]

The numbers on the record itself are:
A-SIDE:
019029590 397
bg49634-01a2
12qib2016-a (then some sort of symbol that looks like an R and an M together)

B-SIDE:
0190295905 347
bg49634-0132
12qib2016-b g-2 (RM symbol again)