"The Queen Is Dead" 12" vinyl (2017, Warner Bros. UK) listed on Discogs - Help needed

hello there everyone
I need help with this release
I have a copy and a few copies to sell
These are proper, legitimate Warner releases
and still i find ZERO info on any website, forum, anywhere
I have practically checked everything and found no info whatsoever
which seems very strange indeed....
anyone knows about this? maybe someone also has a copy????
mail me or write here, ok?

https://www.discogs.com/The-Smiths-The-Queen-Is-Dead/release/9690729
[email protected]



Tracklist
A1 The Queen Is Dead 6:05
B1 Oscillate Wildly 3:26
B2 Money Changes Everything 4:10
B3 The Draize Train 5:08





 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
SORRY, posted too soon. The CORRECT numbers on the record itself are:

A-SIDE:
019029590 397
BG49634-01A2
12QID2016-A GZ (then some sort of symbol that looks like an R and an M together)

B-SIDE:
0190295905 347
BG49634-0132
12QID2016-B GZ (RM symbol again)
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
SORRY, posted too soon. The CORRECT numbers on the record itself are:

A-SIDE:
019029590 397
BG49634-01A2
12QID2016-A GZ (then some sort of symbol that looks like an R and an M together)

B-SIDE:
0190295905 347
BG49634-0132
12QID2016-B GZ (RM symbol again)
Thank you for this.
So now we have a matrix runout that doesn't match the sticker or packaging and as it includes the date - of which there are now 2 - the plot thickens. The matrix should match in all places - that's the whole point. Theories?
Regards,
FWD.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Thank you for this.
So now we have a matrix runout that doesn't match the sticker or packaging and as it includes the date - of which there are now 2 - the plot thickens. The matrix should match in all places - that's the whole point. Theories?
Regards,
FWD.
If these are just bootlegs, someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make them. You'd think they'd get the matrix numbers correct, as that is the first thing people will look at for authenticity. Maybe they're from scrapped stock because the matrix don't match up?

Why aren't the regular experts on here chipping in? Someone must know something.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If these are just bootlegs, someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make them. You'd think they'd get the matrix numbers correct, as that is the first thing people will look at for authenticity. Maybe they're from scrapped stock because the matrix don't match up?

Why aren't the regular experts on here chipping in? Someone must know something.
You'd think they'd get the numbers to match if they were authentic. What about it being scrapped stock would make the numbers not match. You'd think someone would know something if they were pressed in plants. There must have been people who worked on them sent and received the artwork cover materials looked over contracts some sort of payment made. It's weird that no one knows anything or can verify anything
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You'd think they'd get the numbers to match if they were authentic. What about it being scrapped stock would make the numbers not match. You'd think someone would know something if they were pressed in plants. There must have been people who worked on them sent and received the artwork cover materials looked over contracts some sort of payment made. It's weird that no one knows anything or can verify anything
Maybe they scrapped them because the numbers didn't match. Maybe someone rescued them from a skip and is cashing in. Maybe it's a bootleg. Maybe.

But someone knows something, and no-one is saying anything. It's either not worth commenting on, or they're genuine and people are trying to stock-pile before the price skyrockets. Looks like we'll never know.

Whatever the case, I've now got a nice framed picture on my wall.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Maybe they scrapped them because the numbers didn't match. Maybe someone rescued them from a skip and is cashing in. Maybe it's a bootleg. Maybe.

But someone knows something, and no-one is saying anything. It's either not worth commenting on, or they're genuine and people are trying to stock-pile before the price skyrockets. Looks like we'll never know.

Whatever the case, I've now got a nice framed picture on my wall.
Thats cool. I like hanging records and they always make a nice conversation piece rare or not and this one has sure been a conversation starter already. I really like the Lou reed rock and roll animal cover as week as the record and always hang that somewhere wherever I'm living. Yeah it's weird that no one says anything about either to confirm or deny. Maybe somewhere down the line it'll come out
 
M

MMM

Guest
Seeing the Matrix: G-Z is that something GZ media would use (GZ is the biggest pressing plant of Europe)
I've no 'inside' knowledge, though I could probably ask, however I am familiar with pressing plants and their markings. The main clue here is the BG number as that is present on all Optimal pressings (Germany's largest pressing plant), and one that Warners usually use. Also, you couldn't get a bootleg through there.

So, my guess is this is official, cut in 2016 (see 12QID2016 marking), then pulled, perhaps for RSD in April or perhaps never?
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): BG49634-01 A2
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): BG49634-01 B2
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): 12QID2016-A G-Z RM
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): 12QID2016-B G-Z RM
 

jdfjmdf

Member
The big clue in the runout info is the BG number as that tells me that it's been pressed at Optimal in Germany. They are one of the biggest in the world and used by Warners for most of their releases. Also, you wouldn't get far trying to slip a bootleg through there.

My guess is that it was cut for release in 2016 (see 12QID2016 runout marking), then re-scheduled for 2017 but they are still using the 2016 cut.
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): BG49634-01 A2
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): BG49634-01 B2
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): 12QID2016-A G-Z RM
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): 12QID2016-B G-Z RM
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
The big clue in the runout info is the BG number as that tells me that it's been pressed at Optimal in Germany. They are one of the biggest in the world and used by Warners for most of their releases. Also, you wouldn't get far trying to slip a bootleg through there.

My guess is that it was cut for release in 2016 (see 12QID2016 runout marking), then re-scheduled for 2017 but they are still using the 2016 cut.
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): BG49634-01 A2
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): BG49634-01 B2
  • Matrix / Runout (A Side): 12QID2016-A G-Z RM
  • Matrix / Runout (B Side): 12QID2016-B G-Z RM
Information in the deadwax doesn't rely on slipping anything through a plant - that can be faked anywhere. Your experience of how bootlegs are made is not a concrete rule. Much like the person who 'definitely' knows vinyl is difficult to press today - a lot of people have other experiences and disagree.
The possibility of 'destroyed' or pulled records is one thing, but are you seriously suggesting that the records sit unlabeled or sleeved until required? The sticker is applied at the time of pressing: the whole point of identifying marks throughout - so unless they removed stickers or remade their stock and added a newer dated sticker and sleeve something is amiss - matrix numbers seldom mismatch. Even in the more complicated world of Beatles and Stones material has this ever happened...unless...there's fakery involved.
Well, I must say: It makes for a wonderful detective story.
Regards,
FWD.
 

jdfjmdf

Member
I didn't suggest anything to do with stickers, so no idea what you're saying. I did suggest the cut is 2016 and the sleeve suggests a 2017 release. I can't explain that except that it may have been postponed in 2016 at test pressing stage, then later resurrected and (slightly redesigned) sleeves printed up for a 2017 release.

I don't think anyone would go to the trouble of faking an Optimal pressing, since hardly anyone would spot that sort of detail, or even understand what it meant. Also, there are many releases that have mismatched matrix numbers, it's far from unusual.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
I am suggesting that Warners don't sell in records for a 2016 release, then destroy them or 'withdraw' them... sit on them or repress them and add stickers with a newer matrix on - as the ones made for 2016 would have been packaged and carried center stickers that say 2016. So if they held on to old stock - they went to the trouble of adding newer dated stickers and sleeves or they decided to write off a pile of records and repress with new sleeves and stickers (your suggestion - which is plausible except that I don't believe records scheduled for release exist in test pressing form only when being offered to shops). Just the inclusion of a date is odd in itself.
And again, your experience with records and matrix numbers, counterfeits etc will not be the same as others so 'far from unusual' is in the eye of the beholder.
I think it comes down to style of thinking :
Some people like to adjust the facts to validate the item - others like the item to fit the facts.
People who accept anything in the collecting world on face value are going to have a hard time - provenance remains king and speculation will never validate this vinyl. I remain optimistic ready to be wrong - which I will always believe is healthier than creating a narrative that explains something completely.
Regards,
FWD.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Until provenance is provided then this item is worth nothing. It cannot be sold as genuine, and you cant have your friends round and brag about how you own 1 of only 13 copies in existence of this withdrawn Warner Bros Smiths record. You simply can't do it, because you don't have proof. We can all have our hunches but for now there is a cloud of uncertainty surrounding this record and that will remain so until proved otherwise.
 

jdfjmdf

Member
If it's RSD then we'll find out in March. Though unless they're planning 2 releases what was that 7" info leaked in Dec all about?
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Still can't see any stickers on the labels or sleeve? Forget the mythical stickers.
The sticker as in the large colourful pinky red label ON the vinyl - that is meant to have a code that matches the deadwax - it's applied after pressing - am I really explaining that!?
(and yes, I'm aware they are not stickers in a traditional sense, but that is a term used).
FWD.
 
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Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
If it's RSD then we'll find out in March. Though unless they're planning 2 releases what was that 7" info leaked in Dec all about?
Not forgetting both are meant to be picture discs... oh and it was listed in October '16.
FWD.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Until provenance is provided then this item is worth nothing. It cannot be sold as genuine, and you cant have your friends round and brag about how you own 1 of only 13 copies in existence of this withdrawn Warner Bros Smiths record. You simply can't do it, because you don't have proof. We can all have our hunches but for now there is a cloud of uncertainty surrounding this record and that will remain so until proved otherwise.
Provenance or no provenance, it's worth what people are willing to pay for it.
 

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