The New European article comparison with nationalism and patriotism

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
Interesting article written by Kevin Cummins in "The New European" to mark the release of his Britpop book this week, looking at notions of nationalism, toxicity, etc.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/britpop-music-and-the-impact-of-patriotism-93808

Some good quotage from Brett Anderson ~ “Look at how Morrissey’s use of it at that Finsbury Park gig in 1992 was seen as nationalistic, whereas Geri Halliwell’s and Noel Gallagher’s use later in the decade was viewed as patriotic.”

And Sonya Madden ~ “The seeping-in of shame when it comes to nationalist pride is a modern-day obsession. If it’s done with a positive appreciation for one’s culture, why shouldn’t it be exuberant? To feel obliged to denigrate a musical scene because of the politics of the current climate means you limit your appreciation of all the good things it had to offer.”

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Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Interesting article written by Kevin Cummins in "The New European" to mark the release of his Britpop book this week, looking at notions of nationalism, toxicity, etc.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/britpop-music-and-the-impact-of-patriotism-93808

Some good quotage from Brett Anderson ~ “Look at how Morrissey’s use of it at that Finsbury Park gig in 1992 was seen as nationalistic, whereas Geri Halliwell’s and Noel Gallagher’s use later in the decade was viewed as patriotic.”

And Sonya Madden ~ “The seeping-in of shame when it comes to nationalist pride is a modern-day obsession. If it’s done with a positive appreciation for one’s culture, why shouldn’t it be exuberant? To feel obliged to denigrate a musical scene because of the politics of the current climate means you limit your appreciation of all the good things it had to offer.”

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Yes, but did Geri Halliwell or Noel do it while singing "England for the English"?
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
Yes, but did Geri Halliwell or Noel do it while singing "England for the English"?
No, and neither did Morrissey.


The Spice Girls (mostly Posh and Ginger) at the time were self-proclaimed proud "true Thatcherites", who vehemently opposed the idea of the Euro.

"The whole European federal plan is ridiculous. We are patriotic. The single currency is an outrage. We want the Queen's head - or the king's head if we have a king - on our own coins. The Euro-bureaucrats are destroying every bit of national identity. Those new passports are revolting, an insult to our kingdom, our independence." "We travel throughout Europe. All those countries look the same. Only England looks different."
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Yes, but did Geri Halliwell or Noel do it while singing "England for the English"?

The National Front was violently anti-Irish Catholic - Enoch Powell was also anti-Irish Catholic.

It was also extremely homophobic.

Morrissey is an Irish Catholic who has had boyfriends.

The lyrics of the National Front Disco, include David's family & friends lamenting about losing him.

I don't believe the NME was unaware of those facts - so the entire accusation stank.

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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
No, and neither did Morrissey.


The Spice Girls (mostly Posh and Ginger) at the time were self-proclaimed proud "true Thatcherites", who vehemently opposed the idea of the Euro.

"The whole European federal plan is ridiculous. We are patriotic. The single currency is an outrage. We want the Queen's head - or the king's head if we have a king - on our own coins. The Euro-bureaucrats are destroying every bit of national identity. Those new passports are revolting, an insult to our kingdom, our independence." "We travel throughout Europe. All those countries look the same. Only England looks different."

I never really thought of the Spice Girls having opinions on a federal Europe.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
The National Front was violently anti-Irish Catholic - Enoch Powell was also anti-Irish Catholic.

It was also extremely homophobic.

Morrissey is an Irish Catholic who has had boyfriends.

The lyrics of the National Front Disco, include David's family & friends lamenting about losing him.

I don't believe the NME was unaware of those facts - so the entire accusation stank.

View attachment 59582

View attachment 59583

First time I read about the NME bullshit regarding National Front Disco I thought I got it wrong and they were talking about a different song. The narrative was always so clearly anti-NF to me.

The story he tells in the song and the way he incorporated the NF slogan remind me of a very popular song (released in December 1992) by a German left-leaning punk band, that also deals with a boy who becomes a neo-nazi. The difference is that it blatantly mocks the boy, something Morrissey avoided.
The song uses very explicit language (including the n-word!) but it caused no controversy at all. In fact it was a big hit, newspapers printed the lyrics and they performed it on TV a couple of times.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
I never really thought of the Spice Girls having opinions on a federal Europe.
Well, nobody really asked them these sorts of questions but they were quite political. Mels B and C were Labour voters though.
Posh actually got in a bit of trouble over her 1996 statement 20 years later.

Bit of background on the Spectator interview the quotes are taken from

 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
D

Doris Rain

Guest
Yes, but did Geri Halliwell or Noel do it while singing "England for the English"?
Do you actually know anything?
....plus weren't you an ardent mega fan back in those days??? huh? i heard you even had morrissey pyjamas. :lbf:
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Kev is on their podcast to-day, gallantly not taking the bait, and still saying Morrissey was the best to work with.

KC @ 29 minutes in...

https://audioboom.com/posts/7695883-rumours-definitely-maybe-and-the-wall

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I'm too scared to listen - my wee heart can take no more... I had to dip into the Moztits hashtag (which is genuinely transphobic, it really does hate based on gender identity) & the isolate Morrissey hashtag - which is so poignant because it was started with such malice & was taken up innocently by some nice people making affectionate jokes.

I hate Twitter anyway - but all that ugly bigotry unleashed because they've decided someone is a bigot makes me despair.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
I'm too scared to listen - my wee heart can take no more... I had to dip into the Moztits hashtag (which is genuinely transphobic, it really does hate based on gender identity) & the isolate Morrissey hashtag - which is so poignant because it was started with such malice & was taken up innocently by some nice people making affectionate jokes.

I hate Twitter anyway - but all that ugly bigotry unleashed because they've decided someone is a bigot makes me despair.

Here's a little something to cheer you up.

 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
I'm too scared to listen - my wee heart can take no more... I had to dip into the Moztits hashtag (which is genuinely transphobic, it really does hate based on gender identity) & the isolate Morrissey hashtag - which is so poignant because it was started with such malice & was taken up innocently by some nice people making affectionate jokes.

I hate Twitter anyway - but all that ugly bigotry unleashed because they've decided someone is a bigot makes me despair.

Oh you're not missing anything Nelly. Kev seems a good sort, and if he does disagree with Moz on some issues, he appears to be the rare old type that doesn't write off his entire existence. Basically his argument was ~ they are pop stars, why would í ask them how í should vote or what to think about the issues du jour? The presenters were gently trying to set it up for the score, but he wouldn't say anything about anyone. Blamed the weed, etc. He did mention that Moz sells face masks online, but Moz, as far as í'm aware, has never come all out for mask-burning. Alot of people are just mixing everyone and every issue all together.

And it's cos you have a big heart that you can't take it. But take it easy anyhow.

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joe frady

Vile Refusenik
Here's a little something to cheer you up.

My very most favourite Smiths-phase yakking. í could probably lip-synch along to this...

It's a perfect pairing, Muriel & Moz, or was then. And í love the idea that RT have set this up as a proper, professional big time '80s piece of promo, {we'll show EMI what for} with the laughably 'chic' lighting scheme, and the paltry little sleeves on the wall behind. And yet it just descends into giggles. The whole thing is a balmy delight...



And as contrast, watch what happens when he gets interviewed probably weeks later, by the wrong sort. She clearly loathes him...

Best to watch on mute, and just enjoy the tongue :yum:


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GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
Oh you're not missing anything Nelly. Kev seems a good sort, and if he does disagree with Moz on some issues, he appears to be the rare old type that doesn't write off his entire existence. Basically his argument was ~ they are pop stars, why would í ask them how í should vote or what to think about the issues du jour? The presenters were gently trying to set it up for the score, but he wouldn't say anything about anyone. Blamed the weed, etc. He did mention that Moz sells face masks online, but Moz, as far as í'm aware, has never come all out for mask-burning. Alot of people are just mixing everyone and every issue all together.

And it's cos you have a big heart that you can't take it. But take it easy anyhow.

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The notion of looking to pop stars for advice and "guidance" is so odd to me anyway. I love reading their interviews (or used to love it anyway, when they were still worth reading) because their points of view are often fascinating and thought provoking and sometimes (very rarely) you find a real gem, a universal truth that really has the power to open your eyes and mind.

But I certainly don't expect them to be experts on politics or economics or landscaping or whatever.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
My very most favourite Smiths-phase yakking. í could probably lip-synch along to this...

It's a perfect pairing, Muriel & Moz, or was then. And í love the idea that RT have set this up as a proper, professional big time '80s piece of promo, {we'll show EMI what for} with the laughably 'chic' lighting scheme, and the paltry little sleeves on the wall behind. And yet it just descends into giggles. The whole thing is a balmy delight...



And as contrast, watch what happens when he gets interviewed probably weeks later, by the wrong sort. She clearly loathes him...

Best to watch on mute, and just enjoy the tongue :yum:


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The Rock of Europe interview is a good example of a Moz interview gone quite wrong. He looks bored and stressed and probably said some of the stuff about violent protest being the only useful form of protest etc. just to rile her up.
When she asks him about South Africa you can tell he has absolutely no clue at all.

And the Earsay interview still has the best tongue action imo.

 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
The Rock of Europe interview is a good example of a Moz interview gone quite wrong. He looks bored and stressed and probably said some of the stuff about violent protest being the only useful form of protest etc. just to rile her up.
When she asks him about South Africa you can tell he has absolutely no clue at all.

And the Earsay interview still has the best tongue action imo.


The Rock of Europe sounds like Priti Patel is interviewing him.

The Earsay interview had me fretting over tongue strain.

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