the middle east

Puddle said:
to get into war because an independent terrorist organization kidnapped two of your soldiers is unbelievable. But then again, irresponsible and irrational actions committed by Israel do not surprise me anymore.

Sure i guess things get frustrating for everyone involved--on both sides. But still. Israel, you are supposed to be a government, act like one.

But i think Israel jsut wanted a reason to start a war...i'm sure they got US's backing. the objective is for US to get involed in a war with Syria and/or Iran. They can't possibly go in themselves comnsidering Iraq, not to mention they jsut don't ave a good enough reason to start a war. however, if Israel gets involved, the US will jsut back them with money and equipment (they already do that)...not to mention they can join in and say, "our 'friends' need our help".

give me a break. I AM NOT a Bush supporter but you guys got to stop blaming the US for everything bad that happens. Remember Hurricane Katrina? THAT was even Bushs fault. Its so easy for everyone to just throw up their hands now and blame it on us. Good lord, the Middle East has been unstable for centuries. When do you start putting blame on the Middle Easterners? How about putting some blame on the Hezbollah kidnappers. I have yet to hear anyone blame them. I want to hear one person in this thread condemn Hezbollah.
 
dazzak said:
Yes, what Israel is doing is deplorable, but, erm, just give back the soldiers, Hizbollah. That seems like the most logical thing to do. Unless, of course, they're dead. The UN needs to intervene soon as, judging from the past, Israel won't end their campaign until an outside force steps in.
exactly. War sucks. Israels going overboard. But hey Hezbollah, return the KIDNAPPED soldiers. Its a start.
 
Tex said:
without taking sides, i feel sadness for the innocent people. People should be left to live in peace, happiness, and be able to enjoy the good things in life. If we could only weed out the bad seeds

maybe in the next world, maybe in the next world, maybe in the next world
 
dazzak said:
No offence, Mr. Shankly, but if anyone isn't aware of the whole situation, it would be the person in the country that's involved. No one inside a country at war gets the full picture. Hizbollah are a disgrace, but Israel is committing a number of human rights violations. For the most balanced information, one should look to organisations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

go hit a bong dazzak. Mr. Shankly lives in a culture you and I will NEVER understand. I would assume he knows very well the situation there. His friends, family, countrymen, etc, have been being blown up his entire life, his fathers entire life. They have been the target of so much hatred and violence. Rarely does anyone criticize the terrorists who "inhumanely" target innocent women and children in Israel but now Israel responds, and they are the bad guys. The guys hometown is being shelled so dont tell him what he knows and what he doesn t know.
 
give me a break. I AM NOT a Bush supporter but you guys got to stop blaming the US for everything bad that happens. Remember Hurricane Katrina? THAT was even Bushs fault. Its so easy for everyone to just throw up their hands now and blame it on us. Good lord, the Middle East has been unstable for centuries. When do you start putting blame on the Middle Easterners? How about putting some blame on the Hezbollah kidnappers. I have yet to hear anyone blame them. I want to hear one person in this thread condemn Hezbollah.


That's nice...but i never mentioned Bush...I said the US. it doesn't matter if it were Bush, clinton, Bush Sr., or Ronny (though the Republicans are quicker to get into war).

I blamed Israel...but it doesn't change the fact that their alliance with the US is a lot closer than most think. You have to be close to the US if you are going to get billions in aide money and military equipment. Give you a break? i ws only suggesting a conspiracy theory. it's no secret that currently the US would like to do something with Syria and Iran.
 
How about putting some blame on the Hezbollah kidnappers. I have yet to hear anyone blame them. I want to hear one person in this thread condemn Hezbollah.


we know exactly what Hezbollah is--a terrorist organization. As such it acts like one. But I expect more from Israel. It's supposed to be a respected government, but all they do is take part in eye for eye, reactionary behaviour. How about try something proactive instead of just continuing it's immature actions with its neighbors.

Their behaviour leads to more israeli and muslim deaths. it's uncalled for behavior from an official government. such a hardline, violent stance with terrorism just leads to more terrorism. so what's the solution? I don't neccessarily know, but what we are seeing from offical governments (Israel and the US for example) is no solution.
 
give me a break. I AM NOT a Bush supporter but you guys got to stop blaming the US for everything bad that happens. Remember Hurricane Katrina? THAT was even Bushs fault. Its so easy for everyone to just throw up their hands now and blame it on us. Good lord, the Middle East has been unstable for centuries. When do you start putting blame on the Middle Easterners? How about putting some blame on the Hezbollah kidnappers. I have yet to hear anyone blame them. I want to hear one person in this thread condemn Hezbollah.

I do agree, people are always quick to jump on the US in situations like this. Hey, we are an easy target, we are percieved as the bully, goliath......
As an immigrant to the US, I see it all the time, everyone loves to take their digs at America......its a love/hate thing.
I do believe in the ideal that is 'America', it does absolutely exist, the negative stereotypes......well, they exist too, in varying degrees. As much as I never cared for 'America Is Not The World', it does describe that love/hate perception & attitude quite well.
Israel is going thru a bit of this as well, people perceive big bad Israel picking on poor little Lebanon or the Palestinians......its much harder to see their point of view, because they are perceived to be in the position of power.....

I also agree with Puddle, that their is a complete lack of effort here, there, everywhere......as far as creating solutions and trying to stop the bloodshed. Its also my idealized view of 'America', lets DO something.......and what of the UN, is it completely useless......
 
go hit a bong dazzak. Mr. Shankly lives in a culture you and I will NEVER understand. I would assume he knows very well the situation there. His friends, family, countrymen, etc, have been being blown up his entire life, his fathers entire life. They have been the target of so much hatred and violence. Rarely does anyone criticize the terrorists who "inhumanely" target innocent women and children in Israel but now Israel responds, and they are the bad guys. The guys hometown is being shelled so dont tell him what he knows and what he doesn t know.

E-x-a-c-t-l-y. Thank you, finally someone understands that this is nothing close to what people who don't live here can imagine. I wil not add, your words tells the story.

If anyone cares: i'm still ok, though yesterday another rocket (deadlier than the pervious oves) hit a populated 3-floor builing which is (again) close enough from here. Luckily (actually, it's even a miracle) no one were killed, "only" wounded people and wrecked houses. And I don't recall Nasrallah called me and warned me about this rocket...
 
go hit a bong dazzak. Mr. Shankly lives in a culture you and I will NEVER understand. I would assume he knows very well the situation there. His friends, family, countrymen, etc, have been being blown up his entire life, his fathers entire life. They have been the target of so much hatred and violence. Rarely does anyone criticize the terrorists who "inhumanely" target innocent women and children in Israel but now Israel responds, and they are the bad guys. The guys hometown is being shelled so dont tell him what he knows and what he doesn t know.
I never claimed to know what Mr. Shankly was going through, just that he probably doesn't see the whole picture as one isn't exactly going to get a fair and balanced view of the situation being in one of the countries involved, especially from the propogandist local media. I can tell you're one of those who likes to be counter-counter-opinionated, but it's really just rather tedious because you're overdramatising the backlash against Israel. People don't criticise the terrorists at length because, frankly, there's only so many times you can say that what they're doing is wrong. Everyone knows it and saying it is unnecessary. Hizbollah, the terrorists, are bad, bad people. There. Happy?

maybe in the next world, maybe in the next world, maybe in the next world
Oh, wow... That is so clever! How did you come up with that? I've honestly never seen someone do something so innovative on this site! Seriously, there are just some posts that stand head and shoulders above the rest and, needless to say, this is one of them. Gosh.
 
Mr_Shankly said:
If anyone cares: i'm still ok, though yesterday another rocket (deadlier than the pervious oves) hit a populated 3-floor builing which is (again) close enough from here. Luckily (actually, it's even a miracle) no one were killed, "only" wounded people and wrecked houses. And I don't recall Nasrallah called me and warned me about this rocket...


Stay safe friend. I'll pray for you and the innocent.
 
dazzak said:
Oh, wow... That is so clever! How did you come up with that? I've honestly never seen someone do something so innovative on this site! Seriously, there are just some posts that stand head and shoulders above the rest and, needless to say, this is one of them. Gosh.

Dazzak, if Theo ever dumps you - please keep me in mind...
 
Happiness said:
Dazzak, if Theo ever dumps you - please keep me in mind...
If Theo ever does dump me (which, let's face it, is never gonna happen), I'm afraid I've already got Self Pity and Depression lined up. Happiness is not an option.
 
dazzak said:
If Theo ever does dump me (which, let's face it, is never gonna happen), I'm afraid I've already got Self Pity and Depression lined up. Happiness is not an option.

Perhaps that's for the best - you were beginning to lose some appeal when I spotted your Pet Shop Boys background image.
 
'ANY DEMOCRATIC STATE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HERSELF'

But you did not take your land without using force did you? I don't condone the terrorists at all but I think the whole historical backdrop has to be understood.

Yes Hamas took power in Gaza but so did Sinn Fein/IRA do well in Northern Ireland but the British Government did not send gunships there...
 
Right Whinger said:
'ANY DEMOCRATIC STATE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HERSELF'

But you did not take your land without using force did you? I don't condone the terrorists at all but I think the whole historical backdrop has to be understood.

Yes Hamas took power in Gaza but so did Sinn Fein/IRA do well in Northern Ireland but the British Government did not send gunships there...

yes i took it by force but thats becuz i was made to, and that's where you need to learn history.
 
eran said:
yes i took it by force but thats becuz i was made to, and that's where you need to learn history.

I do know my history hence saying something you obviously didnt like. I am not anti the Israeli people, I am not anti the Lebanese folk either but people need to remember the backdrop to this.
 
Glad to see voices of sanity after so much rubbish and confusion from the usual suspects.

I see some wanna be fair to the Muslim terrorists and the insane Muslim leaders, such as Iran's...er...President Ammadamnjihad. How proud they are to watch evil and not take sides. Do as you like, but stop asking why the USA stands with Israel. We stand with Israel because it's the moral thing to do and (outside of scummy congressmen like John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich - today refusing to vote in favor of Israel's right to defend herself) we are proud of it.

I've come up in this thread even though, for the most part, I've pulled a Marr and severed my alliance with the World of Morrissey, or what it has become. I'll chime in.

I take a cue from Oriana Fallaci and the way she has described the so-called pacifists who always scream at Blair, Bush, and Israel and never scream at Saddam, Bin Laden, or Iran. Like Fallaci, I know what side I'm on.

It is pathetic to see messages brushing aside crimes against humanity by Hizballah and Hamas, Iran and Syria, followed up by the programming: To scold Israel. To scold U.S. support for Israel. To scold Jewish lobbies. To condemn everything Israel does. To condemn anything Israel will ever do.

Some here say it was a kidnapping, what's the fuss? And Israel started it. Israel is evil and evil America backs her. They want us to believe Israel is the most evil country that ever existed, instead of - though far from perfect - the most civilized and democratic country to have ever blossomed in the Mideast.

That's their take when terrorists raid Israel to murder and kidnap and then shower Israel's civilian population with hundreds of rockets, as thousands swelter away in bomb shelters. That's their observation when Israel pulled out of Lebanon for 6 years and terrorists spent those 6 years stockpiling rockets, looking forward to committing atrocities. Terror-loving barbarians with no interest in peace, with the sponsorship of deranged regimes openly promising to wipe Israel off the map while actively seeking the weapons to do so, and the help of the useful idiots on the Far Left.


If you wanna know why civilians are suffering in this conflict, ask those who cause it. Try noticing that dead Muslim civilians are the intentional design of Israel's enemies.

And if you have an idea about "proportional responses", lay it out. What can Israel do to pass the special standards applied to Israel and no one else?

France said it might use nukes if attacked by terrorists sponsored by Muslim states (Google: Nuclear Chirac Terrorism). So we see what France has a right to do, something Israel has never even threatened. But Chirac says it's "disproportionate" to crater an airport so that kidnapped victims can't be flown away to some god-knows-where dungeon to never be heard from again, as has happened in the past (to those who say you know more of what's going on than Israelis do from your diet of anti-Israel bias from BBC scum).

I didn't run to Internet forums to condemn Israel when Israel was hit by unprovoked acts of war and atrocity by those who love nothing more than war. Instead I went to a rally at a Jewish Community Center attended by Holocaust survivors, to listen, and to declare that I do take a side, and ask if there's more I can do. No one was gung-ho for innocent Muslims dying. A stark contrast to the rampaging beasts rallying for Hizballah along with the degenerate Far Leftoids who admire them.

And I was given a small opportunity to help in the form of sponsoring the expenses of moving an Israeli child out of the danger zone and to a camp-like setting, safe and secure and away from the emotional scarring. Hopefully.

Perhaps someone should start a program where we can sponsor Muslim children to be raised away from the hands of filthy goat f***ers who teach them to strap on bombs to themselves and others up.
 
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Some of the assclowns around here have stated previously they hold George Galloway up as their standard bearer, that Brit-hole MP who's a close friend of Assad, an admirer of Hizballah and Hamas, and a defender of Iran's right to nukes under their current regime - the four parties who started this war and promise more. Somehow they don't notice this and think he's for peace. It's sad how mixed up folks are.

An MP who, rather than taking part in the worldwide condemnation of Iran on the one-year anniversary of their hanging of two teenagers because they are gay, told Britain it has no right to judge and those two teenagers were probably guilty of something in any case.
 
Theo,

People can criticise Israel’s actions without being anti-Israeli.

From what I've read no one disputes that Hizbollah is a terrorist organistation that bears ultimate responsibility for this situation. They have kidnapped Israeli soldiers, then when the Israeli response came they entrenched themselves in the civilian population leading to the deaths of hundreds of Lebanese civilians. They have terrorised the Israeli population firing rockets indiscriminately onto their towns.

However, this is no war between equal powers . The Israeli government have missed an opportunity to support the legitimate Lebanese government to help them destroy the influence of Hizbollah. Lebanon has been through hell and all the gains by the ‘cedar revolution’ have been destroyed in a few days. The Israeli military has been allowed to brutalise Lebanon and itself has employed terrorist tactics by deliberately targeting civilians (a milk factory, the main importer of Proctor and Gamble products, clearly marked ambulances; given the sophistication of the weaponry at their disposal how can this be excused?)

As someone who has unfortunately on the tube on 7/7, I understand completely wanting to retaliate, no matter what it takes because you and your way of life is under threat. However, that is why we have laws and that is what makes ours a civilised society. When we fail to follow these laws we become no better than the terrorist we despise. Israel is a democratic civilised society who has deliberately targeted Lebanese civilians; they have committed crimes against humanity.
 
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