The Metro: Morrissey’s pro Black Lives Matter tweet dragged on social media (June 3, 2020)

DennisW said:
It's interesting that the toxicology report and full coroner's autopsy report released today show that he had - among several others I don't recognize - at least three psychoactive substances in his body at the time - fentanyl, methamphetamine, and THC, and the repost concludes that he died of a heart attack (perhaps this explains his erratic behavior, both in the store and afterwards with the cops. It's possible that when he became erratic and resisted after first being cuffed, he was already going into cardiac arrest (or maybe just the mix of substances making him crazy). Perhaps Chauvin's actions didn't help - but the degree to which they could be considered the casue of his death is becoming increasingly murky. Given Floyd's known health problems and toxic mix of substances, he was ripe for a heart attack to begin with.
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I said in a earlier post about restraint training in mental health services in the UK. We stopped using prone around 5 years ago. Pressure on the neck and spine was stopped many many years ago.

It is a well known fact in police and health that the holds they were using could cause him to die with or without underlying health issues.
There are techniques that can be used that would have allowed his airways to stay open and prevent any lactic acid build up or positional asphyxiation.

Its been taught to mental health workers and police forces are aware of it.
By choosing to use the holds they used then they are responsible for his death.
This sort of stuff dates back to things like the Rocky Bennett inquiry in the UK many years ago.
 
Nerak said:
It's obviously not the case that no one is defending the officers or condemning Floyd.

It took video footage & an outcry to get the officers arrested.

The time it takes for a case to get to court doesn't make justice slow when he was arrested quickly.

I doubt a video about unarmed killings would carry the same weight as the footage we've all seen of black people having excessive force used against them by the police.

There does seem to be an issue with policies, procedures, protocols & attitudes.
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There's a tiny concentration of people perhaps, but both the president, leaders in his party, the opposing party, massive corporations, former presidents and thousands of celebrities have condemned Floyd's killing, and asked for justice to be brought - this obviously didn't happen to Justine.

Uh, no it didn't. Chauvin as arrested 4 days after the video came out. This is extremely fast and would have happened without riots.

Now you're just confirming you don't know what you're talking about. Noor wasn't arrested quickly, let alone arrested at all. He turned himself in 8 months after he killed her, and at the time, was still working for the PD.

So now you're changing your entire argument. Sigh.

Not really. The facts just don't show widespread misconduct or discrimination.
 
Anonymous said:
There's a tiny concentration of people perhaps, but both the president, leaders in his party, the opposing party, massive corporations, former presidents and thousands of celebrities have condemned Floyd's killing, and asked for justice to be brought - this obviously didn't happen to Justine.

Uh, no it didn't. Chauvin as arrested 4 days after the video came out. This is extremely fast and would have happened without riots.

Now you're just confirming you don't know what you're talking about. Noor wasn't arrested quickly, let alone arrested at all. He turned himself in 8 months after he killed her, and at the time, was still working for the PD.

So now you're changing your entire argument. Sigh.

Not really. The facts just don't show widespread misconduct or discrimination.
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I'm making the same argument. It took an outcry in one case & it didn't in the other.

If there's no discrimination then America is doing a spectacularly bad job at communicating that to the communities involved & they seem to be remarkably unlucky that so many of these incidents get filmed and excused.
 
There is no doubt that there are problems with American policing (over-militarization in recent decades, overuse of swat-teams, no knock entry warrants, etc), and I think Chauvin went overboard in this case and deserves to be prosecuted (even if underlying health conditions, drug mixture, etc., and a heart attack outside police control might have been an even larger factor in the death). Did the neck hold induce the heart attack or just contribute? Perhaps we’lol never truly know. Media is also selectively showing video clips that don’t show the points at which Floyd resisted (they were obscured by the van anyway), making him look more docile than he may have been (the initial 911 caller also said he was acting erratic).

The basic problem with BLM, Antifa, and the mass media myth that American is just flooded with racist whites and racist white cops hunting down blacks is that it simply isn’t true. It is indeed the purest myth, not backed by actual evidence.

Look at in-depth studies of crime stats and police shootings. They demonstrate that statistically white cops are no more likely than black cops to open fire on suspects, whatever the suspect’s race (whether the suspect is armed or not, the cop acting in self defense, etc). In fact stats show white cops slightly less likely to be involved in shootings with black suspects. Stats clearly show that more whites are killed each year per 10,000 arrests than blacks. etc. etc.

But groups like BLM and the mass media have crafted a false narrative to suit their political agenda (and their pocket books - BLM wants money shaking down corporations, governments, etc, and like Jeese Jackson in his heyday, most of will go into the leaders’ pockets to find a lavish lifestyle, not help actual struggling blacks in poor communities). Selectively chosen cases to suit the Narrative and Agenda are given outsized coverage - fomenting chaos, violence, and social distrust, friction, and hatred - while less convenient police brutality cases, like Justine Damond, are relatively ignored.
 
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Nerak said:
I'm making the same argument. It took an outcry in one case & it didn't in the other.

If there's no discrimination then America is doing a spectacularly bad job at communicating that to the communities involved & they seem to be remarkably unlucky that so many of these incidents get filmed and excused.
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No, you changed your position from "police kill more unarmed black men than white men", to an argument about excessive force. And again, these officers would have been arrested regardless of whether or not there were protests and riots or not. The only reason there wasn't this level of reaction for Justine was because she was white.

And now you're twisting reality again. I never said that there's no discrimination, I said there's not widespread misconduct or discrimination. As for "America is doing a spectacularly bad job at communicating that to the communities involved" I actually agree with this. Though of course it would help if state actors and even foreigners such as yourself, who have no idea what the actual statistics are, stopped telling people the police are racist against them and killing them disproportionately and for no reason. And in the few incidents that these events do happen, and they are filmed, the police is almost always in the right, and when they're not, they face charges like the four officers currently.
 
Anonymous said:
No, you changed your position from "police kill more unarmed black men than white men", to an argument about excessive force. And again, these officers would have been arrested regardless of whether or not there were protests and riots or not. The only reason there wasn't this level of reaction for Justine was because she was white.

And now you're twisting reality again. I never said that there's no discrimination, I said there's not widespread misconduct or discrimination. As for "America is doing a spectacularly bad job at communicating that to the communities involved" I actually agree with this. Though of course it would help if state actors and even foreigners such as yourself, who have no idea what the actual statistics are, stopped telling people the police are racist against them and killing them disproportionately and for no reason. And in the few incidents that these events do happen, and they are filmed, the police is almost always in the right, and when they're not, they face charges like the four officers currently.
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I've been making the exact same argument for days - that more unarmed black people are killed by the police for minor crimes or for no crime at all.

There was no need to protest for Justine. I didn't see any coverage implying her death was her own fault & I doubt anyone did.

Foreigners aren't telling Americans that they're being killed by the police, they're telling us. If the stats & videos we've seen are wrong, then there's no credible source from the USA trying to put us right. Which isn't to dismiss you, but without official information out there the narrative on this won't change.
 
Nerak said:
I've been making the exact same argument for days - that more unarmed black people are killed by the police for minor crimes or for no crime at all.

There was no need to protest for Justine. I didn't see any coverage implying her death was her own fault & I doubt anyone did.

Foreigners aren't telling Americans that they're being killed by the police, they're telling us. If the stats & videos we've seen are wrong, then there's no credible source from the USA trying to put us right. Which isn't to dismiss you, but without official information out there the narrative on this won't change.
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I'm not observing your statements from the past few days, I'm observing them through our conversation. In said conversation, you've made multiple incorrect statements, and are wholly unaware of the actual crime statistics. As I've already told you, "more unarmed black people are killed by the police for minor crimes or for no crime at all." is completely false. Last year, only 10 unarmed blacks were killed by police. In 7/10 cases the unarmed black suspects were the clear aggressors. In one of them, the gun shot accidentally, and in the other 2, the police were deemed to be in the wrong, and were charged for murder. I plead with you to watch the video I linked so that you're actually aware of what's happening.

Why not? She was unjustifiably killed by police. That's supposedly what these protests are about, but they're only for black people - it's in the name if you don't believe me. And you're lying once again. Nobody with any power ever doubted the police were in the wrong. Even Trump has been pro-Floyd 100%. And no major media company has implied Floyd's death was his fault.

As a foreigner telling us that blacks are being killed by police disproportionately, you most definitely are. And why are you mentioning stats? Literally every single stat shows more whites are killed by police, despite them being committing less violent crime than blacks. When confronted with this, you changed your statement to be about excessive force instead about unarmed death. And if actual statistics aren't official information, I don't know what is.

Anyway, until you're ready to base your arguments off of reality and statistics instead of feelings, don't reply to me, as it's oh so tiring.
 
Anonymous said:
I'm not observing your statements from the past few days, I'm observing them through our conversation. In said conversation, you've made multiple incorrect statements, and are wholly unaware of the actual crime statistics. As I've already told you, "more unarmed black people are killed by the police for minor crimes or for no crime at all." is completely false. Last year, only 10 unarmed blacks were killed by police. In 7/10 cases the unarmed black suspects were the clear aggressors. In one of them, the gun shot accidentally, and in the other 2, the police were deemed to be in the wrong, and were charged for murder. I plead with you to watch the video I linked so that you're actually aware of what's happening.

Why not? She was unjustifiably killed by police. That's supposedly what these protests are about, but they're only for black people - it's in the name if you don't believe me. And you're lying once again. Nobody with any power ever doubted the police were in the wrong. Even Trump has been pro-Floyd 100%. And no major media company has implied Floyd's death was his fault.

As a foreigner telling us that blacks are being killed by police disproportionately, you most definitely are. And why are you mentioning stats? Literally every single stat shows more whites are killed by police, despite them being committing less violent crime than blacks. When confronted with this, you changed your statement to be about excessive force instead about unarmed death. And if actual statistics aren't official information, I don't know what is.

Anyway, until you're ready to base your arguments off of reality and statistics instead of feelings, don't reply to me, as it's oh so tiring.
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It would be less tiring for you if you linked to official sources - a video does not cut it.

I haven't changed my argument - I don't know what you think excessive force is or why you think that term changes anything.

Protests are about getting justice - if you have no doubt that justice will be done, then there's nothing to protest about.

If you don't want foreigners to comment on American affairs then you'd be better off campaigning for better comms. If your government & police departments can't communicate reality & statistics effectively enough to stop mass protests, they've got a problem.
 
ThePoliticalRevolution said:
Yes. He really lucked out. It took a f***ing snuff film and 110k dead for it to happen but here we are.
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Given how this year‘s gone, with 5 months to go until the election, I expired some more f***ed up stuff to wreak havoc between now and then, so who knows how it will play out in the end. Both conventions could be chaos, and we may end up with one or both as a brokered convention nominating someone other than the primary winner for the first time in ages.

Biden has benefited recently from being mostly out of the public eye, this minimizing his frequent “senior moments,” and tendency to lose his temper and put his foot in his mouth (As he did soon after coming out of hiding and giving his first interview for weeks). Biden is not very loved by the far left, and was more a compromise/default candidate. Lots of chances for him to stumble. And Trump has proved clueless in response to both Covid and the riots.

I remember in 1980 people worrying if Reagan was too old at 69...now the two main candidates are 74 and 78. Crazy. I think Trump and Biden are both showing signs of mental frailty and onset of dementia (though nowhere near as bad as Pelosi!). It’s astonishing these are the best options a country of over 300 million can come up with in 2020 (but I’ve never had any faith in so-called democracy anyway, so I shouldn’t be surprised).
 
Notice how nobody is holding up placards about the mostly white people who have died under police arrest. Why? Because that's not on the manufactured script.

Megan Markle says 'George Floyd's life mattered'. As a woke feminist shouldn't she be sympathizing with the woman he beat, terrorized and held at gunpoint in her own home while his four gangbanging mates robbed the place? Don't women 'matter'? Or is violent misogyny fine?

The whole thing is engineered hype to get blacks angry - which obviously isn't very hard.

Thanks Soros and co. You're getting what you want.
 
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reelfountain said:
I would rather have both my legs removed with a chainsaw than kneel for a single one of these sadists.

In London the other day a violently baying mob forced two policemen to kneel. They kneeled. Both should be sacked.
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You want to sack them for being forced to kneel by 'a baying mob'?

Shows you know you're lying.

They joined in to show solidarity with the protest.
 
Nerak said:
You want to sack them for being forced to kneel by 'a baying mob'?

Shows you know you're lying.

They joined in to show solidarity with the protest.
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Just cause you're quick to get on your knees Karen, don't get mad at Reel for not submitting to nonsense
They are showing solidarity to what ?
 
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