Morrissey Central "THE LAST OF IRELAND" (MARCH 17, 2024)

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St Patrick's Day, 2024

On Pembroke Road look out for my ghost,
Dishevelled with shoes untied,
Playing through the railings with little children
Whose children have long since died.

 
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Stretching it a bit at points, maybe, and obviously indulging in trigger language for attention-grabbing shock value, but overall, I think Russell Brand's exploration of what's going on in Ireland, as indeed elsewhere, is very thought-provoking and resonant

 
Listen to yourself though.

I listen to everyone.

And if that post was so innocuous - why do we have another political video about Ireland sprouting on the thread?

tbf - you might mean why don't I try to persuade them? It's not possible - the rot is deep. The only thing left is fear of getting busted. MAYBE. It didn't help poor Margi Clarke, now spending her days promoting her son's neo-Nazi podcast.
 
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It’s no surprise that the usual suspects are all over this post. This is now Misserrey’s fan base. If you disagree with them then you disagree with your master. When you embrace Misserrey you embrace your inner anti-immigrant white middle aged white bloke pub bore. Don’t be shy.
 
It’s no surprise that the usual suspects are all over this post. This is now Misserrey’s fan base. If you disagree with them then you disagree with your master. When you embrace Misserrey you embrace your inner anti-immigrant white middle aged white bloke pub bore. Don’t be shy.

Gordon Ramsey Idiot GIF
 
I listen to everyone.

And if that post was so innocuous - why do we have another political video about Ireland sprouting on the thread?

tbf - you might mean why don't I try to persuade them? It's not possible - the rot is deep. The only thing left is fear of getting busted. MAYBE. It didn't help poor Margi Clarke, now spending her days promoting her son's neo-Nazi podcast.

The RB video? I think you've weighed in on the politics threads. It's one thing disagreeing with others' political views, where incidentally I'm usually on the same page as you, but something else again trying to stop them from having any other opinions than of only one slant. That expectation or demand actually matches a number of the criteria for fascism Umberto Eco listed - https://www.openculture.com/2016/11...ist-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

Fascism has also been defined as absence or rejection of nuance.

"Humanising fascists [sic]’, thus, does not imply transforming them into adorable subjects, but intelligible ones. The risk of this task is realising they are similar or close to us, which might be an indigestible and disturbing fact."

That's from an anthropological follow-up of a study of Bolsonaro voters, who bear resemblances to Trump followers and the like, which got a negative reaction from the far right, but of more concern, given the scientific presentation, met a backlash from progressive and academic circles, who wanted the existence of this unpalatable basket of deplorables to be denied. But isn't suppression authoritarianism? We're not going to get away from dabbling in political questions while engaging with Morrissey's oeuvre. Isn't it better to be cautiously interested in these new movements forming and morphing, without that reality having to threatening one's own position? :)

What is your favourite Irish poem, Malarkey? Here's another by Patrick Kavanagh, called,

Memory Of My Father

Every old man I see
Reminds me of my father
When he had fallen in love with death
One time when sheaves were gathered.

That man I saw in Gardner Street
Stumbled on the kerb was one,
He stared at me half-eyed,
I might have been his son.

And I remember the musician
Faltering over his fiddle
In Bayswater, London,
He too set me the riddle.

Every old man I see
In October-coloured weather
Seems to say to me:
"I was once your father."
 
The RB video? I think you've weighed in on the politics threads. It's one thing disagreeing with others' political views, where incidentally I'm usually on the same page as you, but something else again trying to stop them from having any other opinions than of only one slant. That expectation or demand actually matches a number of the criteria for fascism Umberto Eco listed - https://www.openculture.com/2016/11...ist-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

Fascism has also been defined as absence or rejection of nuance.

"Humanising fascists [sic]’, thus, does not imply transforming them into adorable subjects, but intelligible ones. The risk of this task is realising they are similar or close to us, which might be an indigestible and disturbing fact."

That's from an anthropological follow-up of a study of Bolsonaro voters, who bear resemblances to Trump followers and the like, which got a negative reaction from the far right, but of more concern, given the scientific presentation, met a backlash from progressive and academic circles, who wanted the existence of this unpalatable basket of deplorables to be denied. But isn't suppression authoritarianism? We're not going to get away from dabbling in political questions while engaging with Morrissey's oeuvre. Isn't it better to be cautiously interested in these new movements forming and morphing, without that reality having to threatening one's own position? :)

What is your favourite Irish poem, Malarkey? Here's another by Patrick Kavanagh, called,

Memory Of My Father

Every old man I see
Reminds me of my father
When he had fallen in love with death
One time when sheaves were gathered.

That man I saw in Gardner Street
Stumbled on the kerb was one,
He stared at me half-eyed,
I might have been his son.

And I remember the musician
Faltering over his fiddle
In Bayswater, London,
He too set me the riddle.

Every old man I see
In October-coloured weather
Seems to say to me:
"I was once your father."

Politics of any kind would be off-topic if the Central post was 'just a poem' for St Patrick's Day.
 
Politics of any kind would be off-topic if the Central post was 'just a poem' for St Patrick's Day.
Why? St. Patrick was political. How does that feminist saying go again?

To even up, here's leftist Owen Jones saying similar to RB & co
 
Why? St. Patrick was political. How does that feminist saying go again?

To even up, here's leftist Owen Jones saying similar to RB & co


If you want use Morrissey for politics that will damage his career - I think it's only fair to explain it properly to him - including the likely fallout - & ask his permission.
 
Uncle Misserrey I’m going to do an anti-immigrant post about all the foreigners coming into the land of our forefathers and ruining the place. We want our Ireland of comely maidens dancing at the crossroads back, don’t we? Yes niece.

No this will have no repercussions for your career as it is already in tatters, ok? Yes niece.

Do I have your permission to post? Say yes. Yes niece.
 
If you want use Morrissey for politics that will damage his career - I think it's only fair to explain it properly to him - including the likely fallout - & ask his permission.

It's good of you to care, but still I think it's only fair to acknowledge that Morrissey, like many if not most other artists, has often and knowingly written songs about politics. Beyond that, judgement and timing come into it, of course.

"as far as what artists can do, I think there’s a huge opportunity now to challenge the institutions that we're part of and and investigate where those loyalties lie.

If you have a platform, I think you have a responsibility to use it to speak politically, especially for those people who can’t do it themselves. I’d like to see that, if it feels safe for artists to do so in their respective mediums, in their respective institutions, to make political work and make work that is going to be “controversial” because what else can we do?

Art can feel frivolous. And I think this is a moment when it’s not."
- https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/03...hil-garip-on-censorship-of-pro-palestine-art/

And an interesting cultural-economic-type discussion about how opera is being kept elite in the name of anti-elitism by the UK Arts Council: "the relationship between the state and the arts is complex but the situation we have now is a make-or-break moment. If we fall for the nonsense being fed to us by the Arts Council and their kin, the art form will be lost to the wealthy. If we want the art form to reflect us, and be available to us, the battle should focus on how we demand the brightest and best examples of the art form." - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/towards-working-class-opera

Here's a lovely if in a way redundant demonstration, using a puzzle-box, of how bees are art-hounds, with cultural sensibilities! It's apparently the first time this level of socially learned problem-solving has ever been observed in a nonhuman animal population - first time for scientists anyway- -https://aeon.co/videos/whats-this-buzz-about-bees-having-culture-inside-a-groundbreaking-experiment


Another Patrick Kavanagh poem for good measure :)

A Star

Beauty was that
Far vanished flame,
Call it a star
Wanting better name.

And gaze and gaze
Vaguely until
Nothing is left
Save a grey ghost-hill.

Here wait I
On the world's rim
Stretching out hands
To Seraphim.
 
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It's good of you to care, but still I think it's only fair to acknowledge that Morrissey, like many if not most other artists, has often and knowingly written songs about politics. Beyond that, judgement and timing come into it, of course.

"as far as what artists can do, I think there’s a huge opportunity now to challenge the institutions that we're part of and and investigate where those loyalties lie.

If you have a platform, I think you have a responsibility to use it to speak politically, especially for those people who can’t do it themselves. I’d like to see that, if it feels safe for artists to do so in their respective mediums, in their respective institutions, to make political work and make work that is going to be “controversial” because what else can we do?

Art can feel frivolous. And I think this is a moment when it’s not."
- https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/03...hil-garip-on-censorship-of-pro-palestine-art/

And an interesting cultural-economic-type discussion about how opera is being kept elite in the name of anti-elitism by the UK Arts Council: "the relationship between the state and the arts is complex but the situation we have now is a make-or-break moment. If we fall for the nonsense being fed to us by the Arts Council and their kin, the art form will be lost to the wealthy. If we want the art form to reflect us, and be available to us, the battle should focus on how we demand the brightest and best examples of the art form." - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/towards-working-class-opera

Here's a lovely if in a way redundant demonstration, using a puzzle-box, of how bees are art-hounds, with cultural sensibilities! It's apparently the first time this level of socially learned problem-solving has ever been observed in a nonhuman animal population - first time for scientists anyway- -https://aeon.co/videos/whats-this-buzz-about-bees-having-culture-inside-a-groundbreaking-experiment


Another Patrick Kavanagh poem for good measure :)

A Star

Beauty was that
Far vanished flame,
Call it a star
Wanting better name.

And gaze and gaze
Vaguely until
Nothing is left
Save a grey ghost-hill.

Here wait I
On the world's rim
Stretching out hands
To Seraphim.

Yeah - all the irrelevant links in the world aren't going to make it ethical to scam an artist into promoting a political position they're not aware they're promoting.
 
Yeah - all the irrelevant links in the world aren't going to make it ethical to scam an artist into promoting a political position they're not aware they're promoting.
No - Morrissey is fully aware of what he is doing and saying. What is absolutely clear is that Morrissey just doesn't share your world view that it is 'racist' or 'far right' to be concerned about mass immigration and its impact on social cohesion. Being concerned about mass immigration is simply an opinion. A perfectly valid opinion. You may disagree with that opinion - and that is fine. Being unconcerned about mass immigration and thinking mass immigration is great is also an opinion. Both opinions are perfectly valid. That you fail to grasp this simple fact - and suggest that Morrissey is being duped and used by his nephew - is bizarre.

 
No - Morrissey is fully aware of what he is doing and saying. What is absolutely clear is that Morrissey just doesn't share your world view that it is 'racist' or 'far right' to be concerned about mass immigration and its impact on social cohesion. Being concerned about mass immigration is simply an opinion. A perfectly valid opinion. You may disagree with that opinion - and that is fine. Being unconcerned about mass immigration and thinking mass immigration is great is also an opinion. Both opinions are perfectly valid. That you fail to grasp this simple fact - and suggest that Morrissey is being duped and used by his nephew - is bizarre.


Taking Morrissey out of the equation for a moment - opinion is one thing, but how it's positioned, communicated and acted upon is quite another.
 
Taking Morrissey out of the equation for a moment - opinion is one thing, but how it's positioned, communicated and acted upon is quite another.
A lot of these people also fail to understand that their opinion (or the ideology that they worship at the altar of, rather) isn’t perhaps the universal truth that they believe. And everyone who does not blindly agree with them isn’t necessarily a liberal idiot sheep.
 
No - Morrissey is fully aware of what he is doing and saying. What is absolutely clear is that Morrissey just doesn't share your world view that it is 'racist' or 'far right' to be concerned about mass immigration and its impact on social cohesion. Being concerned about mass immigration is simply an opinion. A perfectly valid opinion. You may disagree with that opinion - and that is fine. Being unconcerned about mass immigration and thinking mass immigration is great is also an opinion. Both opinions are perfectly valid. That you fail to grasp this simple fact - and suggest that Morrissey is being duped and used by his nephew - is bizarre.


He didn't mention mass immigration when he supported For Britain.

That crept in elsewhere.
 
A lot of these people also fail to understand that their opinion (or the ideology that they worship at the altar of, rather) isn’t perhaps the universal truth that they believe. And everyone who does not blindly agree with them isn’t necessarily a liberal idiot sheep.
Agreed. But others also fail to understand that their opinion (or the ideology that they worship at the altar of) isn't perhaps the universal truth that they believe. And everyone who does not blindly agree with them isn't necessarily a far right racist.
 
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