The Guardian: Stewart Lee's 'Honest Playlist' - 'can no longer listen to' Morrissey (September 5, 2022)

Like Reverend Richard Coles a few months ago, Stewart Lee has nominated Morrissey for the artist/song he can no longer listen to in a Guardian questionnaire, citing his 'drift to the far right'.
www.theguardian.com/music/2022/sep/05/stewart-lee-honest-playlist
It's a bit disappointing that someone as professionally obsessed with Morrissey as Lee was, doesn't mention Morrissey's clearly muddled/confused political outlook, and the (admittedly vague) support he's also given to non-right-wing figures in recent years. It's clearly the right-wing stuff that has stuck in people's minds.



Excerpt:

The song I can no longer listen to
Sadly, Morrissey. Loads of artists end up doing terrible things, but the Smiths meant such a lot to my generation, to have him drift to the far right doesn’t sit. I remember hearing How Soon Is Now when I went to see the Smiths at Birmingham Hippodrome and dancing to it at a disco in Tucson, Arizona in 1995. It’s hard to let go of my childhood attachment to the Smiths, but I don’t know how to square Morrissey’s solo stuff with what he’s become.


full
 
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It is funny that as an artist you can sleep with under-age girls, go to prison for tax evasion, beat up a woman, commit murder - but the thing that will stop someone listening to your music is voicing an opinion that is considered heretical. Crazy world.
 
This reminds me of when Rev Richard Coles said he could no longer listen to Morrissey...then went on to say, without a trace of irony or apparent self-awareness, that he wanted (notorious anti-semite) Wagner played at his own funeral. What are people supposed to do now - diligently research the private lives and every public utterance of artists they discover to ensure that it's 'safe' to like them? Or just separate the artist from the art, the way normal people do?
 
Great music should never not be listened to.

Berry of course did time for armed robbery before he became famous. After he became famous he was arrested for taking a 14-year-old girl, driving her across state borders and having sex with her. After a few trials and appeals he served 20 months in prison.

Is it just possible you can hear a touch of this Dionysian lawlessness in the music? Rock and roll wouldn't have sounded so good made by Sunday School teachers.

Great music is great music. Full stop.

 
I live in London and it is not a cesspool. Not sure where you live, you might have mentioned just outside London before, can't remember. But once again you have seized on the rhetoric (because it's what you already 'feel') without using your considerable intelligence to think it through and come to the obvious conclusion. So I'll do it for you...

Do you remember around the late 90s/early 2000s when there was an extraordinary amount of gang-related shootings in London? I do. The police even tried to set them aside from 'normal' crimes by dubbing them (with a total lack of sensitivity) "black-on-black crimes".

Now think how many shootings there are every year in London these days. Few, if any. It's obvious what's happened: the gang members have realised that killing someone with a knife is a lot easier, a lot less messy, a lot less expensive and troublesome, and there's a much smaller chance of getting caught (gunshot residue will sink you). In essence, stabbings have replaced shootings. There's not a significant rise in the crime itself, just as there not many more bank robberies now because it's done via computer shenanigans rather than armed stickups. Basically - same crimes going on, different methods.

Yes London has a lot of knife crime. But this is not, as you clumsily hint, because there are more black people/immigrants in the country. Its just gang members who swapped guns for knives.

You have a good brain Hofmann. Sadly, you are still not using it.
it IS a cesspool. even the so called nice areas are appalling. when you compare it to a city like vancouver it's shockingly bad.
 
Supports Brexit = evil Nazi to the Guardian readership, so this news really isn't surprising.
 
it IS a cesspool. even the so called nice areas are appalling. when you compare it to a city like vancouver it's shockingly bad.
Everywhere’s a cesspool compared to Vancouver. And everywhere is paradise compared to London.
 
I can no longer listen to Morrissey, because his recorded output from Years Of Refusal onwards is a steaming pile of Pony.
 
I live in London and it is not a cesspool. Not sure where you live, you might have mentioned just outside London before, can't remember. But once again you have seized on the rhetoric (because it's what you already 'feel') without using your considerable intelligence to think it through and come to the obvious conclusion. So I'll do it for you...

Do you remember around the late 90s/early 2000s when there was an extraordinary amount of gang-related shootings in London? I do. The police even tried to set them aside from 'normal' crimes by dubbing them (with a total lack of sensitivity) "black-on-black crimes".

Now think how many shootings there are every year in London these days. Few, if any. It's obvious what's happened: the gang members have realised that killing someone with a knife is a lot easier, a lot less messy, a lot less expensive and troublesome, and there's a much smaller chance of getting caught (gunshot residue will sink you). In essence, stabbings have replaced shootings. There's not a significant rise in the crime itself, just as there not many more bank robberies now because it's done via computer shenanigans rather than armed stickups. Basically - same crimes going on, different methods.

Yes London has a lot of knife crime. But this is not, as you clumsily hint, because there are more black people/immigrants in the country. Its just gang members who swapped guns for knives.

You have a good brain Hofmann. Sadly, you are still not using it.
Are you sure about your final point, there? This is a sad character who single-handedly keeps Tena solvent each and every time he sees his fellow Britons of a different skin and hue to his own.
What's even more pathetic still is that like so many white ethnocentrists, Hofmann's own forebears were immigrants to Britain themselves. They were singled out as outsiders, but he denies this of course. His own very "whiteness" and general obsession with it is in itself an all too very visible trauma - deified as his own salve for the fragile ego he carries. And this he knows....all too clearly.
The following perfectly sums up perfectly why Hofmann and his sort in this site have nothing other than their mother's womb giving them the pathetic notions they carry regarding the world they live on with others....

"


In cities all around North America and Europe, white supremacist posters like this have been popping up on telephone poles and bulletin boards in the middle of the night.

"Tired of anti-white propaganda?
You are not alone. It's only racist when white people do it. Positive self-identity. Defend ourselves from criticism. Organize in our self-interest. Express concern about our future. Preserve our culture. Desire to continue to exist as a people."

*
An elder with whom I study speaks often of a particular formulation. It goes like this, "First generation trauma. Second generation God."

It suggests that, when a trauma occurs to an individual or a people that, for the first generation it will be received as the horror that it is but that, in the second generation, it will be worshiped.

This bears out in the realities of colonization.

The English colonize Scotland. The first generation of people hate them and resist. But then the English take their children and put them in English school and the next generation wants to be English.

Trauma can't live in our bodies or the bodies of our community as trauma for too long. If it's not healed, it must be turned into some other thing. And we end up worshipping at the altar of that which destroyed us.

The industrial revolution destroyed families by taking the father away from the home for long periods of time. But now we worship machines.

Our indigenous languages were decimated and now most of us worship at the altar of English.

None of it is conscious.

I remember being at the Gaelic college on the Isle of Skye and hearing one of the administrators say, "We're just as good as any English university." And so, there it was, they were the standard against which we would measure ourselves.

And so, I want to suggest two things. The first is that whiteness was a cultural trauma. The second is that whiteness has been deified.

Whiteness as Cultural Trauma:

In the early years of our European ancestors arriving in what is now known as North America, most of them were not 'white'.

Their skin colour might have held the same complexion as mine, but they were not 'white'. At the time, 'white' meant upper class, North Western Europeans. The Irish, the Jews, the Polish, the Scots etc. Think Gangs of New York. They retained their own languages and as much of their cultures as they were able to.

They were arriving, for the most part, traumatized. They were driven from Europe by famine, poverty, and war. But then the next trauma happened: whiteness. The erasure of their cultural identities. Entrance into the club of whiteness was offered if they were willing to pay by giving up their own languages and identities. Tightly woven communities were slowly eroded. Parents would refuse to speak the language of their homeland because they wanted their children to learn English.

I want to suggest that this entire experience was traumatic though it might not have been understood as such at the time. The bonds of kinship, language, culture, tradition, the sources of a people's strength, were, within a few generations, erased, and replaced with the anemic, synthetic, mass-produced, depression-inducing, misery-making, freedom-addicted, money-loving, control-hungry, spiritually-starving, Earth-hating, de-animating modern excuse for a culture.

Whiteness, that shroud used to smother and then cover the vestiges of European indignity that survived the hellish voyages across the Atlantic, was now wrapped tightly around them as a sense of identity, a toxic mimic of what they had once had.

As Toni Morrison put it, "Unlike any nation in Europe, the United States holds whiteness as the unifying force."

And the invitation into the 'white race', of course, left out people of colour. Blacks, Mexicans, Indigenous people and other people of colour were not, and would never be, white.

The 'white race' began as a privileged class and it grew by extending those privileges to everyone but people of colour. The 'whites' began as the ruling class of this modern culture that is so violent to our souls and the soul of the world.

But trauma can't stay trauma for long.

Whiteness as God:

The result was the worshipping of whiteness as a new god. First, it traumatized our people but, unable to do anything about it, the adulation began.

To be white was to be right. It was to be special. It was to be superior and deserving.

Whiteness both is and isn't a culture.

It's not a culture in any meaningful way we might understand culture in its life affirming function as in the good cultures of bacteria in our guts that keep us alive or as in a deeply rooted indigenous culture.

It is a culture in that it has features, patterns and exhibits behaviours that are knowable and predictable (largely to those who are not white).

But, whatever we might call it, it is empty. It is hollow. It has no connection to the Earth. It has no connection to place. It is homeless. It is rooted in privilege. And it is a false god being worshipped. There is a white shroud, wrapped carefully around the mummified corpse of the ones from whom we truly came and we are worshipping the shroud and not those ones within it.

And so, in the absence of any real sense of home or place in the world (robbed of us by whiteness) many now worship at the altar of it.

"I'm white," we say.

No, I say. That is the shroud you've been wrapped in and it is killing you and killing any chance that those who come down the road later might truly see you, your old, plaid kilt covered up by this bleached linen. How will those to come recognize you? How will those who have already passed on recognize you when you arrive?

"Tired of anti-white propaganda? You are not alone."

The aloneness was created by whiteness.

"It's only racist when white people do it."

No. The system of racism in North America only benefits white people.

"Positive self-identity."

Worshipping at the altar.

"Defend ourselves from criticism."

Because our inherited worldview, rooted in the ivory towers of racial privilege, is so fragile.

"Organize in our self-interest."

Because we have forgotten who we really are and we've accepted white as the poisonous substitute.

"Express concern about our future."

Our. Us white people. Unified only by our amnesia.

"Preserve our culture."

Because we've never experienced what a real culture is and have been told to be terrified of it.

"Desire to continue to exist as a people."

Whiteness eliminated our understanding of ourselves as a people. And now whiteness is our understanding of ourselves as a people. And many white people are terrified of losing it and being left with the kind of nothingness that breaks people with the cold presence of its absence.

The Healing from Whiteness:

Whiteness is a trauma to be healed from, not a God to be worshiped. It is not an identity to hold on to, it is the wage we were paid to give up who we were in order to become what they needed. Whiteness is not where we come from, it's what covers that up and ensures we will never find it.

The ending of our whiteness would be the beginning of our actually being here and the beginning of a meaningful chance to belong to the places we live. The death of this homeless identity would provide the compost from which an identity based in the place and this time we find ourselves now. The death of whiteness would be the death of abstraction and the beginning of something real.

Whiteness is not the enemy.

It's an old, wooden doorway in a large old country home, the paint peeling off and the knob long since rusted over. No one even sees this door anymore or remembers that it's there. It has been closed for longer than anyone can remember. It is concealing something too marvellous for words behind it. It is a family secret so deep that no one even remembers it.

But you see it now.

You place your hand on it and open it up and step onto the porch you didn't know was there. The door wasn't locking your out of anything, it was locking you inside something so much smaller than you should have had to live in.

It's night time. The air is cold and fresh. You've never been outside before but somehow you remember all of this. Your whole life inside and yet now your home feels so small under the swollen belly of the night giving birth to the universe above you. You call the others out to come and see what you're seeing, but they don't hear you. Or won't. You take a step out and the door slams behind you and you'll never find out who or what closed it. But you can't go back inside anymore. You step off the porch and begin to walk away.

Whiteness is not a demon to be vilified, it's a shroud to be unwoven to reveal that old one who fled their home because they had to and whose losses were never grieved and many of them perhaps not recognized as losses but as what we now call progress.

Shed some tears for that one.

Shed some tears that we never knew them.

Shed some tears that they might yet know us.

Shed some tears that this hardened grief, this tumour of whiteness, might be healed from."

(https://healingfromwhiteness.blogspot.com/2017/05/whiteness-is-deified-trauma.html)
 
forgot to mention stewart lee is now huge,your not the one for me fatty.
he was, he's not now.

well, he wasn't last week anyway.

though, he could have put on 6 stone since then.

so, you may be right afterall
 
I live in London and it is not a cesspool. Not sure where you live, you might have mentioned just outside London before, can't remember. But once again you have seized on the rhetoric (because it's what you already 'feel') without using your considerable intelligence to think it through and come to the obvious conclusion. So I'll do it for you...

Do you remember around the late 90s/early 2000s when there was an extraordinary amount of gang-related shootings in London? I do. The police even tried to set them aside from 'normal' crimes by dubbing them (with a total lack of sensitivity) "black-on-black crimes".

Now think how many shootings there are every year in London these days. Few, if any. It's obvious what's happened: the gang members have realised that killing someone with a knife is a lot easier, a lot less messy, a lot less expensive and troublesome, and there's a much smaller chance of getting caught (gunshot residue will sink you). In essence, stabbings have replaced shootings. There's not a significant rise in the crime itself, just as there not many more bank robberies now because it's done via computer shenanigans rather than armed stickups. Basically - same crimes going on, different methods.

Yes London has a lot of knife crime. But this is not, as you clumsily hint, because there are more black people/immigrants in the country. Its just gang members who swapped guns for knives.

You have a good brain Hofmann. Sadly, you are still not using it.
All summer London has felt like a tinder box. There was a mini-riot in Oxford Street a few weeks ago - but it didn't even make the news, as it doesn't fit with the 'message' that London is one big happy diverse cultural melting pot. A young black man was shot dead by police in Streatham yesterday. The tensions in London are just about ready to explode. Diversity is a strength, apparently.

 
it couldnt possibly be because the listener in question actually feels the way they do?

Listener? No mention of a listener.

Just simply pointing out how the negative is more attractive to most, and what feelings it stirs in comparison to the positive, which usually is not a selling point, and the media know this.
 
Always makes me laugh how those (still) on the (far) left, like to preach that they are the intelligent, enlightened ones. When it's obvious to everyone else they are the most dumb, stupid and ignorant bores you would hope you would never meet.
 
he was, he's not now.

well, he wasn't last week anyway.

though, he could have put on 6 stone since then.

so, you may be right afterall
did you watch the programme on sunday night,hes like the side of a hoose,
 
No, and sorry to correct you, but I’m saying that Morrissey’s opinions that seem to be viewed as negative are used by media as clickbait.

I’m also saying, as an observation, that the negative attracts interest over the positive, sadly.
Fair observation and tis (alas) the way of the world...
 
I live in London and it is not a cesspool. Not sure where you live, you might have mentioned just outside London before, can't remember. But once again you have seized on the rhetoric (because it's what you already 'feel') without using your considerable intelligence to think it through and come to the obvious conclusion. So I'll do it for you...

Do you remember around the late 90s/early 2000s when there was an extraordinary amount of gang-related shootings in London? I do. The police even tried to set them aside from 'normal' crimes by dubbing them (with a total lack of sensitivity) "black-on-black crimes".

Now think how many shootings there are every year in London these days. Few, if any. It's obvious what's happened: the gang members have realised that killing someone with a knife is a lot easier, a lot less messy, a lot less expensive and troublesome, and there's a much smaller chance of getting caught (gunshot residue will sink you). In essence, stabbings have replaced shootings. There's not a significant rise in the crime itself, just as there not many more bank robberies now because it's done via computer shenanigans rather than armed stickups. Basically - same crimes going on, different methods.

Yes London has a lot of knife crime. But this is not, as you clumsily hint, because there are more black people/immigrants in the country. Its just gang members who swapped guns for knives.

You have a good brain Hofmann. Sadly, you are still not using it.

And it's funny how most of those gangs are foreign or if they're white, they ape the rappers/drill "performers". And London is indeed a shithole for a multitude of reasons. Where did this explosion of knife crime come from? Out of thin air? Didn't happen to this level 40 yrs ago.
 
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