The Guardian reviews "Years of Refusal"

But Neil would it be fair to say that the majority of fans on this site became fans because of what he has done in the past?

I listen to a new Morrissey album with ridiculously high hopes BECAUSE of what he has done in the past. Why else would I have such high hopes?

You don't just pop down to your local record store and pluck a CD out of the new artist section and sit there with crossed fingers and toes hoping it will be great.

The reason people are so emotionally invested in Morrissey's releases (pardon the obvious pun) is due largely to the resevoir of goodwill he has built up through his body of work.

I won't apologise for hoping each release is as great as 'Vauxhall'and nor do I think I should have to.

I'm not living in the past, it's just that I know the bar that Morrissey has set for himself and for his fans and I would love him to reach it again (as much for him as for myself.)

I happen to think that his latest stuff is not the strongest, that doesn't mean I don't have ears or am being unreasonable, it just means that I don't love it as much as other stuff.

It really is as simple as that.

I have no problem with anyone saying 'i prefer such and such' or 'i prefer the lyrics to such and such'. I think its a really strong album. I don't think its perfect by any means - i'm not that keen on 'GWBF' or 'Sorry..' but overall i think as a Mozzer album its very good, but compared to the majority of other album releases around, it's great. And that is my main bugbear. You and others may think that 3 out of 5 stars is a decent appraisal because they think Vauxhall should be 4 stars or Queen is Dead should be 5 stars. But the 3stars infers its an average album compared to every other artist's albums being released. You just have to look at the vast number of albums given over 3 stars by Q in the issue YOR was reviewed.

Flip this idea for a moment. Say Britney released a song called 'I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris' how withering would you be in your disdain?

Methinks a lot.

Youthinks wrong. I'm not a musical snob. If it's a good song then i couldn't give a f*** who it's by.
 
Lily Allen has set herself up as an amusing pop lyricist who comments on very mundane things in an intelligent, interesting, perhaps innocent, way.

I agree with what you say about Lilly Allen. Apart from your assertions that she is amusing, intelligent or interesting. Or innocent.


I don't think it is. As bhops said Morrissey has set his own standards and any new release is going to be measured up to that.You can't compare music across the board, artist create their own standards which is what they're measured against.

So if Morrissey releases an album thats good but not as good as one he's previously done then its ok for reviewers to give it less stars than an inferior album by a new group. Makes no sense to me.
 
When Lily Allen's lyrics are described as intelligent and witty I really think the end of the world is nigh. :D
 
Youthinks wrong. I'm not a musical snob. If it's a good song then i couldn't give a f*** who it's by.[/QUOTE]


Argh then if Jay-Z puts together a fantastic hip hop version of this album you will rush out and buy it?

My other problem Neil is that there is now younger fresher newer more vital music being released when compared to what Morrissey is recycling these days (which I still like but am not insane about it anymore.)

Just to show I'm no musical snob either I find what Scroobius Pip has to say a million times more relevant than Morrissey telling me for the one hundreth time 'that nodody needs his love.'

Frankly if Morrissey's back catalogue didn't exist and I was just trying to get into him as a first time fan off the strength of this one album I would be struggling.


I'ts like Beckham, love or loathe him, he's better than playing for the Glaxay, and so should Morrissey hoist himself out of mid-lyrical mediocrity for one last tilt at the titlebelt.

This album aint gonna do it.

If you're prepared to say 'well at least it''s better than the othet stuff around' then fine.

But y'see I used to be around in a time when Morrissey's stuff SOARED over whatever competition was around at the time. When he was untouchable and brilliance personnified.

I'd love to see that back just one more time.
 
Argh then if Jay-Z puts together a fantastic hip hop version of this album you will rush out and buy it?

Why would I? It would be in a hip hop style and therefore materially different from the original. I'm Ok by Myself by Jay-Z probably wouldn't work if you ask me. Your analogy was a bit shit really.

My other problem Neil is that there is now younger fresher newer more vital music being released when compared to what Morrissey is recycling these days (which I still like but am not insane about it anymore.) Just to show I'm no musical snob either I find what Scroobius Pip has to say a million times more relevant than Morrissey telling me for the one hundreth time 'that nodody needs his love.'

I have no idea who Scroobius Pip is. Maybe i'm missing out.

I'ts like Beckham.

No it's not.

But y'see I used to be around in a time when Morrissey's stuff SOARED over whatever competition was around at the time.

It still does. Read the latest edition of Q. It's f***ing terrifying.
 
When Lily Allen's lyrics are described as intelligent and witty I really think the end of the world is nigh. :D

Oh come on, the music world was waiting years for a middle-class daughter of a famous comedian who lives on a houseboat to come along and spin the tortuous banalities of her privileged, celebrity lifestyle into badly sung songs.
 
Why would a diffrent genre not ne as intresting? Apparently you'll listen to any kind of music unless it's good.

You've already displayed reservations about a hip hop version hence your old 'as long as it's good you'll listen to it' argument is reasonably piss thin in credibility.

My point about Beckham was just because you're near the end of your career you shouldn't settle for less, you should always be challenging yourself.

But still if paraphrasing like 2 words and replying with a pithy comment makes you feel special then I'm getting a pretty clear understanding of the 'coolness' of your persona.

Actually the Beckham quote had a comma then followed by the rest of the senetnce where I explained myself and the quote more fully. When you re-quoted it you changed the comma to a full stop making it seem like a two word statement. You wouldn't possibly work for a tabloid (say the Liverpudlian version of The Daily Sport) by any chance? Such a compelling preference for 'cut and paste' journalism.

You're so clever it makes me what to have a long nap.

And no I read Q and his stuff doesn't soar about what else is in there. In fact some is rather good.
 
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It's grown on you then, Comtesse? :D

Yes, it has! Great song. It took a bit, but I see what all the fuss is about now. The vocals are incredible on that song, and I appreciate the ominous, evil vibe.
 
What's with all this personal attack stuff?

As a long time Morrissey fan (22 years or something like that) I've read a fair amount of personal attacks on him in my time and this review is reasonably gentle by comparison to some.

Is it just possible that the guy didn't like the album? Why does a review that is less than positive immediately become some sort of hatchet job on Morrrissey?

Honestly sometimes his fans can be as paranoid as the man himself and that's saying something.

I don't particularly love it myself , nor do I loathe it I just find it (yet again) another middling effort.

I'm in the minority but I really didn't love Curry that much and thought Tomotoes was a far more rounded effort.

So does this guy. What's the fuss?

His point is that lyrically Moz has been lazy and it's a crticism that I find hard to argue. I get the sense that what he's saying is that with a little more effort this album could've been GREAT and again I have to agree.

Morrissey's solo career has been a magnificent effort and I can't think of a single artist that has come out of such an influencial group (and that includes every Beatle) who has gone on to have such significant artistic success as a solo artist, but if there was one word I would use to describe Moz's solo efforts it would be 'sporadic.'

I'd say The Guradian is right.

3/5. Fair enough.

Sounds like you and are on the same page - I've been a fan for 25 years, myself. I'd give YOR a 3/5 too, and I also much preferred Ringleader to Quarry. I think people on this list think that anything that isn't fawning is an "attack". I think it's called "honesty".
 
Sounds like you and are on the same page - I've been a fan for 25 years, myself. I'd give YOR a 3/5 too, and I also much preferred Ringleader to Quarry. I think people on this list think that anything that isn't fawning is an "attack". I think it's called "honesty".

Yes, I do hate it when Morrissey fans come on a Morrissey site and start praising a Morrissey album they actually like.
 
Sounds like you and are on the same page - I've been a fan for 25 years, myself. I'd give YOR a 3/5 too, and I also much preferred Ringleader to Quarry. I think people on this list think that anything that isn't fawning is an "attack". I think it's called "honesty".

I'll repeat myself -

Overall i think as a Mozzer album its very good, but compared to the majority of other album releases around, it's great. And that is my main bugbear. You and others may think that 3 out of 5 stars in a review is a decent appraisal because they think Vauxhall should be 4 stars or Queen is Dead should be 5 stars. But the 3 stars infers its an average album compared to other artist's albums being released. You just have to look at the vast number of albums given over 3 stars by Q in the issue YOR was reviewed.

And to counter your gripes, just because somebody might like the album doesn't mean they should be dismissed as 'fawning'.
 
Frankly if Morrissey's back catalogue didn't exist and I was just trying to get into him as a first time fan off the strength of this one album I would be struggling.

If a new artist released this album it'd be hailed as an instant work of genius.
 
Yes, it has! Great song. It took a bit, but I see what all the fuss is about now. The vocals are incredible on that song, and I appreciate the ominous, evil vibe.

In a while the rest of YOR will have grown on you too. Don't worry though, you can always look forward to slating the next album as soon as any details are released.
 
A pretty fair review? In what way?

I explain why I think it's fair in the next part of the post. It's fair because his primary complaints - that Morrissey's lyrics are lazy and that the band is boring - are perfectly valid complaints.

We've established you like Birthday. So you think Skull, Mama, Black Cloud, Paris, Carol, AYNIM, OK by myself and Good in your time are bland and uninspiring? Seriously, if you do then i can't understand why you frequent a Moz fansite. In my opinion these are really strong songs and I can't quite understand what else you are expecing from a Moz album.

Sigh. "Skull" is a good song - with not-so-great lyrics in the verses. It could have been magnificent, but it fell into that old "Sorrow Will Come In The End" lyrical trap that Morrissey seems to always fall into these days. I think the chorus is brilliant, and I still love the song - I just wish it wasn't sullied by lines about "uncivil servants" and "bailiffs with bad breath" and the like. "Black Cloud" is extremely mediocre in every way. I love the melody of "I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris" but the lyrics are lazy and the song sounds unfinished. "All You Need Is Me" is okay, but the music is awful, and the melody is bland. I do quite like the last verse ("You don't like me but you love me..."), but on the whole it's bland. "I'm OK By Myself" has grown on me - I like that song a lot. The lyrics are not his best though. It's another example of falling into the same old patterns. "You Were Good In Your Time" is very good. Some of the best lyrics on the album.

Again, what exactly are you looking for? What topics do you want him to be singing about? So what if much of his work returns to the subject of love or unrequited love?

Well, I can tell you that I DON'T want to hear him whining about lawyers anymore. That's a pet peeve of mine. But apart from that, it's not the WHAT so much as the HOW. I love his major themes of unrequited love, sadness and persecution. It's the artless and dull way that he expresses those themes on this album that distresses me.

The majority of great pop songs throughout history are about love. Paris, for example may not be full of deep, hidden meanings and references from Elizabeth Smart but its a beautiful song about unrequited love accompanied by a strong melody with a great hook. Name another artist that writes lyrics as intelligently as those in 'Carol'?

I love the lyrics of "Carol". Those are among the best lyrics on the album. And as I said, I LOVE songs about unrequited love. I just don't think that lyrics like, "I was wasting my time looking for love/For a love that never comes from someone who does not exist" are good lyrics. I mean, you can go through the history of Morrissey and find dozens of lyrics that express this same theme much better.

It pisses me off the way every single lyric he writes is subject to extensive analysis and criticism. Lilly Allen's album gets rave reviews up and down the country with songs about f***ing chinese takeaways.

Well, you have an excellent point there. Morrissey is the victim of his own track record. I firmly admit that I hold Morrissey songs to a completely different standard than anyone else. For example, even though I don't think that "Sorry Doesn't Help" is a good Morrissey song, I still prefer it immensely to almost every other song that I hear on the radio. (My gf called me on this the other day: "You know, you were complaining that you weren't very impressed with the new Morrissey album, but I sure here you singing it a lot in your office!") Yeah, even though I'm disappointed with it, it's still my current favorite album. I just get frustrated because I know that he's capable of so much better than this! I just listened to this song from a few years ago and was reminded of what he's capable of:

There is something I wanted to tell you
it's so funny you'll kill yourself laughing
but then I, I look around
and I remember that I am alone / alone / forevermore
The tile yard, all along the railings
up a discoloured dark brown staircase
here you'll find / despair and I
calling to you with what's left of my heart, my heart / forevermore

Drinking tea with the taste of the Thames
sullenly on a chair on the pavement
here you'll find / my thoughts and I
and here is the very last plea from my heart, my heart / forevermore

Where taxi drivers never stop talking
under slate-grey Victorian sky
here you'll find / despair and I
and here I am every last inch of me's yours / yours
forevermore

Your leg came to rest against mine
Then you lounged with knees up and apart
and me and my heart
we knew / we just knew
forevermore

Where taxi drivers never stop talking
under slate-grey Victorian sky
here you'll find / my heart and I
and still we say "come back / come back
to Camden / and I'll be good"
I'll be good
I'll be good
I'll be good

That's what I'm missing on this album.
 
I'll repeat myself -

Overall i think as a Mozzer album its very good, but compared to the majority of other album releases around, it's great. And that is my main bugbear. You and others may think that 3 out of 5 stars in a review is a decent appraisal because they think Vauxhall should be 4 stars or Queen is Dead should be 5 stars. But the 3 stars infers its an average album compared to other artist's albums being released. You just have to look at the vast number of albums given over 3 stars by Q in the issue YOR was reviewed.

And to counter your gripes, just because somebody might like the album doesn't mean they should be dismissed as 'fawning'.

Okay, yes, I agree with you. You have an excellent point. When I think of YOR as a 3/5 it's because Quarry is 4/5 and Vauxhall is 5/5. I can't give YOR as high of a rating as Vauxhall or Quarry. You're right - compared to the rest of the dross that passes for music these days, it should be ranked much higher. Sometimes, you know, I can't see the woods for the tree that I obsess over.
 
In a while the rest of YOR will have grown on you too. Don't worry though, you can always look forward to slating the next album as soon as any details are released.

Oh, shut up - I loved Ringleader upon its initial release, so how do you know that my initial reaction to the next album won't be wrong in the OPPOSITE direction???? :p
 
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