The Guardian: Johnny Marr - "You ask the questions" (February 6, 2022)

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Johnny Marr: ‘When I play Smiths songs I experience this huge wave of elation’

Johnny Marr: ‘When I play Smiths songs I experience this huge wave of elation’

On the eve of his new double album, the acclaimed songwriter takes questions from musicians, politicians and readers

www.theguardian.com

Particularly liked Bernard Butler's question...

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Excerpt:
Did the Smiths ever fall out over football or politics?
Andy Burnham, mayor of Greater Manchester

We never discussed football so that’s that. And we never fell out over politics, but we probably would now.

Morrissey’s recent political views have cast a shadow over the Smiths for me – reaching back into the past and tainting something that was very important to me. I’m so disappointed in him. Has it impacted how you feel about the Smiths or are you able to separate the past from the present, the band from the man? I find it very difficult to do so.
Johnny Spence, Northern Ireland

It hasn’t impacted how I feel about the Smiths. That’s all I can say about that. I’m certainly able to separate the past from the present. I don’t know whether you can separate the band from the man, but I can separate myself from the man and what I did, so when I do see how disappointed people are, it really does make me sad. But it’s completely out of my control. And I can only really do what is in my control. So I play Smiths songs for reasons that I think are real. And over the years I’ve tried to take care of the catalogue and the releases as much as I was able to. As I would have done anyway. So, you know, I see it the way everybody else sees it. I don’t have any answers. And I don’t want to have any answers.

...

We have both had many casual musical flings but one very strong personal bond in our lives. How has your relationship with the wonderful Angie influenced your creativity, and does she have a favourite guitar?
Bernard Butler, musician

I’ll answer the easy bit first: Angie’s always loved Les Pauls. That’s to do with when we first met – she was 14 and I was 15. We were into Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, so she became bit of a Gibson fan. I’ve had a Gold Top guitar for 20-odd years and I think if I’ve ever got rid of that one, she’d leave me. The important thing I can say about my relationship with Angie is that she made me brave at 15, 16. Not only did Angie know me before everybody else knew me, but she knew me before I knew myself. She was there before the Smiths started: it was me and Angie. And then when that whole thing got together, it was me and Angie and Joe Moss [the late manager of the Smiths]. Not only was I with my soulmate, but I was with somebody who was very smart and very talented.
...

Johnny, out of 10 what would you give me for my turn as Mozzer on Celebrity Stars in Their Eyes? [Hill sang This Charming Man.] PS: if you and the fellas ever decide to regroup and his nibs won’t play ball, I still have the wig – and more importantly, the hearing aid.
Harry Hill, comedian

I sort of remember that. I’m going to have to give Harry a solid two out of 10 for that, and he can make of that what he will. As for the offer, I don’t even know what to make of that…!

 

[Morrissey's left nut]

It's too awful to contemplate. I'd rather believe that M was having a complete mental breakdown, than that he's firmly and willingly siding with these horrors.

He's stuck to his guns, doubled & tripled down. To anyone on the outside, the Der Spiegel fiasco & the subsequent release of the unedited tapes in the face of his denial was a mortal wound to his credibility.
It truly seems too late for damage control.

 

[Amy]

He's stuck to his guns, doubled & tripled down. To anyone on the outside, the Der Spiegel fiasco & the subsequent release of the unedited tapes in the face of his denial was a mortal wound to his credibility.
It truly seems too late for damage control.

It certainly looks bleak. An issue that has festered for years now.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, Johnny should really have said he 'co-wrote' the Smiths songs - but if that's the most damning thing you are looking to attack the guy for, then it's a pretty sad state of affairs. The songs are so obviously 50/50 his and Morrissey's that it barely needs stating, and I can give the guy a pass for misspeaking a single word during the interiew.

And how about a little equality when it comes to allowing interviewees to 'misspeak'?

It does strikes me that the people who are policing Johnny's language to such an exacting degree here, are the same people who give Morrissey free-pass after free-pass. When Morrisseey says stuff like 'the Chinese are a subspecies', 'Hitler was left wing','it's obvious that Farage would make a good Prime Minister', 'borders bring order', 'migrant boats mean migrant votes', 'Berlin has become the rape capital because of the open borders,”etc etc etc, they say 'oh, no - Morrissey didn't really mean that - what he meant was much more nuanced." And yet here they are trying to crucify Marr for what is a fairly pedestrian slip of the tongue.

If Johnny starts saying in repeated interviews that he was the only one who wrote the Smiths songs, including the lyrics - fine. But we are a long way from that.

 

[Anonymous]

I think Marr is speaking to Smiths fans that will know what he means. It’s a ‘goes without saying’ comment, that he knows that his fans know that he co-wrote those with Morrissey.

No, he's not speaking to Smiths fans specifically, he's speaking to the 'Guardian' readership.

And it doesn't matter whether it's common knowledge or not - he's still overstating his claim. All he had to do was change the pronoun from 'I' to 'we' and, by the same argument as you put forward, it would go without saying who the 'we' was that he was talking about.

But that's not what Marr's about. He's a huckster, who has always been about selling himself, and overstating his contribution to The Smiths. What Marr is essentially trying to do here is not to foster the literal belief that he alone wrote the songs of The Smiths, of course he isn't, but he's trying to reinforce his songwriting credentials, his right to be taken seriously as a songwriter, at a time when he has a new album to promote - when in fact it's perfectly obvious when you compare his solo career to The Smiths that he's not really a songwriter at all, he's a composer of music. But by saying "I wrote the songs" instead of "I co-wrote the songs", he's deflecting attention away from the fact that his input to the songs of The Smiths had nothing to do with the lyrics or vocal melodies of the songs.

If he was to have been honest, he would have said "We wrote the songs - me and Morrissey - and let's be honest, I could have done with his help on this new album too, but he wasn't around, so I just had to do the lyrics and vocal melodies myself - for which I can only apologise, since it's obvious to anyone with ears and intact critical faculties that they're shit". Something like that.

 

[Anonymous]

No, he's not speaking to Smiths fans specifically, he's speaking to the 'Guardian' readership.

And it doesn't matter whether it's common knowledge or not - he's still overstating his claim. All he had to do was change the pronoun from 'I' to 'we' and, by the same argument as you put forward, it would go without saying who the 'we' was that he was talking about.

But that's not what Marr's about. He's a huckster, who has always been about selling himself, and overstating his contribution to The Smiths. What Marr is essentially trying to do here is not to foster the literal belief that he alone wrote the songs of The Smiths, of course he isn't, but he's trying to reinforce his songwriting credentials, his right to be taken seriously as a songwriter, at a time when he has a new album to promote - when in fact it's perfectly obvious when you compare his solo career to The Smiths that he's not really a songwriter at all, he's a composer of music. But by saying "I wrote the songs" instead of "I co-wrote the songs", he's deflecting attention away from the fact that his input to the songs of The Smiths had nothing to do with the lyrics or vocal melodies of the songs.

If he was to have been honest, he would have said "We wrote the songs - me and Morrissey - and let's be honest, I could have done with his help on this new album too, but he wasn't around, so I just had to do the lyrics and vocal melodies myself - for which I can only apologise, since it's obvious to anyone with ears and intact critical faculties that they're shit". Something like that.

Uh no, he's not allowed to say the M-word, remember? And now the sole-guardian of the Smiths' legacy. Why do you care? Moz should just stick to his solo output, he doesn't need the Smiths, right?

 

[NealCassidy]

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

It certainly looks bleak. An issue that has festered for years now.

Yes, so bleak for Morrissey. I’m surprised he still has the spirit to be creative, or the will to go on at all.

We could only imagine how
it’s been for him.

And we could only hope that things get better for him, if not for his sake, then more importantly, for ours.

 

[Amy]

No, he's not speaking to Smiths fans specifically, he's speaking to the 'Guardian' readership.

And it doesn't matter whether it's common knowledge or not - he's still overstating his claim. All he had to do was change the pronoun from 'I' to 'we' and, by the same argument as you put forward, it would go without saying who the 'we' was that he was talking about.

But that's not what Marr's about. He's a huckster, who has always been about selling himself, and overstating his contribution to The Smiths. What Marr is essentially trying to do here is not to foster the literal belief that he alone wrote the songs of The Smiths, of course he isn't, but he's trying to reinforce his songwriting credentials, his right to be taken seriously as a songwriter, at a time when he has a new album to promote - when in fact it's perfectly obvious when you compare his solo career to The Smiths that he's not really a songwriter at all, he's a composer of music. But by saying "I wrote the songs" instead of "I co-wrote the songs", he's deflecting attention away from the fact that his input to the songs of The Smiths had nothing to do with the lyrics or vocal melodies of the songs.

If he was to have been honest, he would have said "We wrote the songs - me and Morrissey - and let's be honest, I could have done with his help on this new album too, but he wasn't around, so I just had to do the lyrics and vocal melodies myself - for which I can only apologise, since it's obvious to anyone with ears and intact critical faculties that they're shit". Something like that.

This was your real point all along, wasn't it? What a load of tedious, over-egged bluff and bluster, making a fuss about 'pronouns' when you were just looking for a chance to stick the knife in. We already know that JM's solo material isn't setting the world on fire, we know the lyrics are crap - but none of that means that he's hiding all manner of 'veiled digs' in his interviews. If you hate this 'huckster' so much, just stop listening to him.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, Johnny should really have said he 'co-wrote' the Smiths songs - but if that's the most damning thing you are looking to attack the guy for, then it's a pretty sad state of affairs. The songs are so obviously 50/50 his and Morrissey's that it barely needs stating, and I can give the guy a pass for misspeaking a single word during the interiew.

And how about a little equality when it comes to allowing interviewees to 'misspeak'?

It does strikes me that the people who are policing Johnny's language to such an exacting degree here, are the same people who give Morrissey free-pass after free-pass. When Morrisseey says stuff like 'the Chinese are a subspecies', 'Hitler was left wing','it's obvious that Farage would make a good Prime Minister', 'borders bring order', 'migrant boats mean migrant votes', 'Berlin has become the rape capital because of the open borders,”etc etc etc, they say 'oh, no - Morrissey didn't really mean that - what he meant was much more nuanced." And yet here they are trying to crucify Marr for what is a fairly pedestrian slip of the tongue.

If Johnny starts saying in repeated interviews that he was the only one who wrote the Smiths songs, including the lyrics - fine. But we are a long way from that.

No, we're not a long way from it at all. Marr has spent 30 years talking about The Smiths as 'his band' and downplaying the creative contribution of Andy Rourke and, in some cases, John Porter to the songs of The Smiths - now he's arrived at the point where he is ludicrously even downplaying Morrissey's creative input!

It may strike you that people who are, as you see it, 'policing' Johnny's language are at the same time giving Morrissey a free pass, but that doesn't mean it's true. Discussing Morrissey and his political views is a completely separate issue. I can only speak for myself but I certainly don't see Morrissey as being beyond criticism.

 

[Anonymous]

This was your real point all along, wasn't it? What a load of tedious, over-egged bluff and bluster, when you were just looking for a chance to stick the knife in.

Yes, that was my basic point. And I didn't need to 'look for a chance' to make it, this is a discussion forum thread about an interview Marr gave to 'The Guardian' - the point arose naturally from what he said. So no need for bluff, and no need for bluster. It seems to be simply trying to follow an argument or encountering views that don't align with your own that you find tedious.

 

[Anonymous]

How ironic is it that this is posted by someone with "Free Speech" in his profile?

 

[SHCon]

Morrissey needs to categorically and on-record distance himself from right-wing politics once and for all.
He needs to make a very clear statement with words to the effect of 'in my life I've expressed admiration for a number of people from the full range of political spectrums both left and right, but I have these days become exclusively associated with the far-right. I would like to make it abundantly clear that I do not have far-right politics etc.' and ideally include a formal retraction of his support for Anne Waters and For Britain.
Until he does this he will forever be considered, however wrongly, as an intolerant far right w***er with horrible political views. The ball is in his court.

Ridiculous. He need do no such thing. He’s a free man entitled to his own views. He certainly doesn’t owe YOU or anyone else an explanation for what goes on inside his head. He’s hurt no one. Why don’t you stop acting like a child and realize that not everyone thinks exactly the same way you do? Morrissey seems to be one of the only pop stars that has always been and remains anti-authoritarian. He hasn’t changed. You have.

 

[Amy]

Yes, that was my basic point. And I didn't need to 'look for a chance' to make it, this is a discussion forum thread about an interview Marr gave to 'The Guardian' - the point arose naturally from what he said. So no need for bluff, and no need for bluster. It seems to be simply trying to follow an argument or encountering views that don't align with your own that you find tedious.

What I find tedious is that you've hammered the same point - Marr taking 'undue credit' for the Smiths - into the ground, making a big fuss out of nothing.

The last paragraph showed that you're not really concerned with The Smiths or 'ownership' of the songs or whatever, you just can't stand Johnny and wanted to get a few digs in yourself. I am interested in discussion with people who have all kinds of complex, conflicted views about Morrissey & Marr (and I've criticised Johnny plenty myself) - but when you show your own bias so clearly, when you just a hate a guy & that's it, it's hard to have a real debate.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

How ironic is it that this is posted by someone with "Free Speech" in his profile?

Why shoot the messenger?

 

[The Wild Turkey]

The Guardian journo praising Johnny for this "raven black" hair made me laugh!

It was quite a nice article actually - even with the usual hand-wringing over Morrissey's "politics". It's funny how Johnny's solo music gets a bit of a critical free pass from the press these days. Has he ever written a solo song that's up there with the best Smiths songs? I can't think of one.

It's kinda sad that Johnny ain't made a great
solo song yet.
He's got all this good will, but he just can't deliver
the goods.

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

It's kinda sad that Johnny ain't made a great
solo song yet.
He's got all this good will, but he just can't deliver
the goods.

I don't think it will happen unless he gets a songwriting partner, he's at his best when he has someone to bounce ideas against.

 

[The Wild Turkey]

You mean to tell us that there ain’t
one Johnny song in the batch that you can turkey step to ?!

If ya can think of one I'll tell ya, but
I can't think of one my own self.

 

[The Wild Turkey]

I don't think it will happen unless he gets a songwriting partner, he's at his best when he has someone to bounce ideas against.

Ya just figure that he would on the law of averages.
He still could.
Ya never know.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

If ya can think of one I'll tell ya, but
I can't think of one my own self.

maybe you’re playing them at the wrong speed? Ya know Johnny doesn’t really sing that low.

 

[sparacus]

How hard would it be for Johnny Marr to show a bit of loyalty to Morrissey? I’d like to see an interview that reads like this:
Interviewer: ‘Morrissey’s political views have tarnished the Smiths for me. I now think the songs were rubbish. How about you?’
Marr: Of course I don’t , you wet pillock. Just because you don’t like someone’s political views doesn’t mean that their art or music can’t be great. I don’t base my appreciation of Mozart or Beethoven on an analysis of their politics.