The Footy Thread

[Anonymous]

I never understood why football talk with you always descends into you getting bitter. Your team has won more than any other yet you're still bitter, why?

Clough won 3 League titles with fringe clubs, 2 European Cups, probably would have been two other European trophies were it not for crooked refs and four League Cups along with a few other things like beating Barca for the European Super Cup. Not bad.

He's up there with Shankly, Busby, Ferguson and Paisley. Nobody else comes close in English football. I'm sure you only acknowledge Ferguson and Busby though.

You should learn to enjoy your football more instead of getting pissed off at things that only exist in your head. Great football people are great football people, enjoy them instead of acting all hurt because somebody who wasn't at Man U won something.

How you came to that conclusion I will never know and it is clear you mistake me for someone else.

Football is about taste and what you like and do not like. Clough won loads but it never involved great football that entertained the crowds. He was obsessed with beating himself and in the end he did. I think even his son has admitted that. To me he lacked style on and off the pitch as that old sad unwashed green shirt became a symbol of towards the end.

I am in no doubt he had a cracking personality and he gave two fingers to Leeds so as a Man United fan that must be applauded. You seem to accuse others of your own behaviour here so chill a bit.

No one questions that he won things but the way with which he did it can be debated and still is. It was another time and another era altogether. I can understand your frustration very well though as Forest have been struggling in a way no one could have foreseen not too many years ago. I'd love to see them back in the top flight.

It is impossible to be bitter and as you know Man United won more than anyone thought possible and I still say to people that even if they never win a thing again or even go out of business all my dreams have been fulfilled a million times over.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

How you came to that conclusion I will never know and it is clear you mistake me for someone else.

Football is about taste and what you like and do not like. Clough won loads but it never involved great football that entertained the crowds. He was obsessed with beating himself and in the end he did. I think even his son has admitted that. To me he lacked style on and off the pitch as that old sad unwashed green shirt became a symbol of towards the end.

I am in no doubt he had a cracking personality and he gave two fingers to Leeds so as a Man United fan that must be applauded. You seem to accuse others of your own behaviour here so chill a bit.

No one questions that he won things but the way with which he did it can be debated and still is. It was another time and another era altogether. I can understand your frustration very well though as Forest have been struggling in a way no one could have foreseen not too many years ago. I'd love to see them back in the top flight.

It is impossible to be bitter and as you know Man United won more than anyone thought possible and I still say to people that even if they never win a thing again or even go out of business all my dreams have been fulfilled a million times over.

As Ferguson's Man U played the same brand of football as Clough's Forest and Derby sides I'll assume you didn't enjoy that football either!

Build from the back with a brilliant goalkeeper, solid centre halves, attacking full backs, two wingers, a box to box midfielder and one with a bit of guile, a creative striker and a finisher. The reason both were successful was because of their style of play and every player on the pitch knew their jobs. No team in Europe could live with either at the height of their powers.

Go and Youtube clips from late 70's to late 80's Forest and compare 'em to 90's Man United and you'll see no difference other than the kits and the names on the shirts. That's why both won a couple of European Cups each. Funnily enough, the worst football I ever saw Forest play was in each of he European Cup Finals but once you're there the result is what matters. A bit like when Bayern bossed the 99 Final and Man U did a smash and grab at the end, nobody cares that Man U didn't get a kick for most of the game, you won and that one game doesn't mean they were a bad team to watch. Sometimes you grind out a result but that's not your usual style of play.

 

[Anonymous]

As Ferguson's Man U played the same brand of football as Clough's Forest and Derby sides I'll assume you didn't enjoy that football either!

Build from the back with a brilliant goalkeeper, solid centre halves, attacking full backs, two wingers, a box to box midfielder and one with a bit of guile, a creative striker and a finisher. The reason both were successful was because of their style of play and every player on the pitch knew their jobs. No team in Europe could live with either at the height of their powers.

Go and Youtube clips from late 70's to late 80's Forest and compare 'em to 90's Man United and you'll see no difference other than the kits and the names on the shirts. That's why both won a couple of European Cups each. Funnily enough, the worst football I ever saw Forest play was in each of he European Cup Finals but once you're there the result is what matters. A bit like when Bayern bossed the 99 Final and Man U did a smash and grab at the end, nobody cares that Man U didn't get a kick for most of the game, you won and that one game doesn't mean they were a bad team to watch. Sometimes you grind out a result but that's not your usual style of play.

The two styles could not have been anymore different which has a lot to do with time of course. Fergie and United played almost too attractive at times which meant inviting opposition teams into the game and the drama that followed almost every game was unbelievable. Clough had a style that was about playing as little as possible and killing time. He wouldn't mind playing the long ball and wish the end receiver of the ball good luck.

You describe it well concerning the drama and the United style when you mention the 1999 final cause that was so typical of the side. Players under Cloughie lacked technique and stamina and it was old messy pitches that did not invite them to play at all.

If you are desperate to brand Fergie a modern Clough so be it but to me the difference is too big for me to see that at all. Clough himself liked the fact that he was called "the anti-football manager" which he was. He was all focused on making sure his side frustrated the hell out of the opponent. This particular system was something he used in the last 10 years of management and maybe that is something that make most people remember him as such a manager.

That he was a foolish communist did not make him anymore popular among most football fans. What struck me about the film based on him was that he feared authority and maybe that came from his experiences at school. He was always up against older men with more medals and more knowledge of the game that were championed by the media. In the end he became an authority himself and somehow I think he hated that and was disgusted with himself and therefor took to the bottle that eventually killed him.

No one wants to take away what he won and what he did as that is history but in football you will always have different opinions about style of play and individual players and managers. What you mention about play style and tactics is of course the base for any good side because you have to build from the back. If anyone today is like Clough it is Mourinho cause he has methodical players that act like robots and play without any sort of style and it is very effective but so dull on the eye for the fans. Mourinho is also obsessed with making sure he stops the opponent from playing and then grinds out results.

Over the many years of following Fergie at United I sometimes wished we had that element of controlling games but it was always a battle filled with wonderful football and open play and most often too open. In the end however I loved that style and how United under Fergie always played on until the ref blew the whistle. It was tough on the heart to follow United and it still is as yesterdays late equaliser at West Ham show. They are already talking about "Van Gaal time" in reference to "Fergie time" and that must be a good thing although for the fans it is like hell at times. The saying that "United never lose they just run out of time" comes from the Fergie era when his sides were always trying to score.

In the days of Clough you simply could not win playing attractive football and the european cup was of course the back pass cup and Liverpool also benefited from the lack of quality and effort back then. Muddy pitches did not invite players and most players had some sort of alcohol abuse and did not train anywhere near like they do today. The whole culture was different and that is why the era of 70's and 80's is called "the longball days" by people abroad who watched it on tv. Clough did not manage to win anything in the modern day culture of football and we all know why.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

The two styles could not have been anymore different which has a lot to do with time of course. Fergie and United played almost too attractive at times which meant inviting opposition teams into the game and the drama that followed almost every game was unbelievable. Clough had a style that was about playing as little as possible and killing time. He wouldn't mind playing the long ball and wish the end receiver of the ball good luck.

You describe it well concerning the drama and the United style when you mention the 1999 final cause that was so typical of the side. Players under Cloughie lacked technique and stamina and it was old messy pitches that did not invite them to play at all.

If you are desperate to brand Fergie a modern Clough so be it but to me the difference is too big for me to see that at all. Clough himself liked the fact that he was called "the anti-football manager" which he was. He was all focused on making sure his side frustrated the hell out of the opponent. This particular system was something he used in the last 10 years of management and maybe that is something that make most people remember him as such a manager.

That he was a foolish communist did not make him anymore popular among most football fans. What struck me about the film based on him was that he feared authority and maybe that came from his experiences at school. He was always up against older men with more medals and more knowledge of the game that were championed by the media. In the end he became an authority himself and somehow I think he hated that and was disgusted with himself and therefor took to the bottle that eventually killed him.

No one wants to take away what he won and what he did as that is history but in football you will always have different opinions about style of play and individual players and managers. What you mention about play style and tactics is of course the base for any good side because you have to build from the back. If anyone today is like Clough it is Mourinho cause he has methodical players that act like robots and play without any sort of style and it is very effective but so dull on the eye for the fans. Mourinho is also obsessed with making sure he stops the opponent from playing and then grinds out results.

Over the many years of following Fergie at United I sometimes wished we had that element of controlling games but it was always a battle filled with wonderful football and open play and most often too open. In the end however I loved that style and how United under Fergie always played on until the ref blew the whistle. It was tough on the heart to follow United and it still is as yesterdays late equaliser at West Ham show. They are already talking about "Van Gaal time" in reference to "Fergie time" and that must be a good thing although for the fans it is like hell at times. The saying that "United never lose they just run out of time" comes from the Fergie era when his sides were always trying to score.

In the days of Clough you simply could not win playing attractive football and the european cup was of course the back pass cup and Liverpool also benefited from the lack of quality and effort back then. Muddy pitches did not invite players and most players had some sort of alcohol abuse and did not train anywhere near like they do today. The whole culture was different and that is why the era of 70's and 80's is called "the longball days" by people abroad who watched it on tv. Clough did not manage to win anything in the modern day culture of football and we all know why.

You're making yourself look a complete idiot now. None of that has got any basis in reality. Laughable. Clough's teams played an attractive short passing style of play, anyone who knows their arse from their elbow knows this. Longball days, hahaha, hahaha, clueless.

To quote Brian himself, "If God wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."

I take it "anti-football manager" is a quote you've just attributed to him thanks to you being a completely clueless idiot.

Clough retired in 93, of course he didn't win anything since then, he was retired you gibbering buffoon. However, he did win his last trophy in 90 and got his team to Wembley twice after that.

Now go and have a word with yourself.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Arsene Wenger, who has seen his Arsenal team recently beat Forest's unbeaten 42-match league record, said Clough was a true legend of English football.

"I remember watching his teams play and I would say that the Forest side of the late 1970s will go down in history as one of the all-time greats," said Wenger.

"It is not an exaggeration to say that I was truly touched recently when he complimented the way this current Arsenal side plays and that we deserved to break his record.

"People use the word legend too freely but Brian Clough is a true legend of English football and his success in this country and in Europe is a legacy for which he will always be remembered."

Sir Alex Ferguson and his Manchester United side locked horns with Clough during the 1980s and 90s.

Ferguson said: "He's done something unique. He's won two leagues with provincial teams, not the big guns, and he's won the European Cup twice in a row with a provincial team.

"He was eccentric at times, but I don't think there was anything wrong with that.

"I quite enjoyed some of it, though I was sometimes on the end of it."


Roy Keane

Roy Keane says Brian Clough was a better manager than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Keane was signed by Clough for Nottingham Forest in 1990 and spent three years at the club before Ferguson broke the then British transfer record to bring him to Old Trafford for £3.75million.

Keane would go on to become Manchester United captain and win seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and one Champions League under Ferguson.

But, in his new autobiography The Second Half, Keane says he still rates Clough as the better of the two, claiming Ferguson was 'pure business' and lacked warmth.
'I worked under two great managers and I put Brian Clough ahead of Alex Ferguson for a simple reason. What was the most important thing in my football career? Brian Clough signing me. That kick started everything,' he writes.

'Different managers, both brilliant. I think Clough’s warmth was genuine. I think with Sir Alex Ferguson it was pure business – everything is business. If he was being nice I would think: ‘This is business, this’.

'He was driven and ruthless. That lack of warmth was his strength. United was a much bigger club than Forest but his coldness made him successful.
'His message was the same. I was never once confused by one of his team talks or his tactics or his training. The message was always fresh. I must have heard him talk 500 times and I always thought: ‘Yeah, that was good’.

'I think that’s amazing. As a manager I would take Clough’s warmth and Ferguson’s ruthlessness and put them in the mix – but also add my own traits.'
Keane's relationship with the most decorated manager in English football deteriorated towards the end of his career at United.

Keane, now assistant manager at Aston Villa, left United in 2005 after he criticised his team-mates to MUTV after a 4-1 defeat to Middlesborough.
That explosive interview - which Keane describes as 'not too bad' in his new book - led to a furious training ground bust up with Ferguson, assistant boss Carlos Queiroz and goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar.

Queiroz accused Keane of showing a lack of loyalty to his team-mates and when Ferguson stepped in to diffuse the situation, Keane said: 'You as well gaffer. We need f****** more from you. We need a bit more, gaffer. We're slipping behind other teams.'

A few weeks later, Keane was left out of a reserve game and when he questioned Ferguson about it he was told he could leave the club.
The pair's relationship has never recovered and Keane described it as 'non existent' in an ITV documentary last year - in which he also said 'Brian Clough, without a doubt' was the best manager he played for.

He added: 'I never thought for a second that I was more important than the manager. Absolute nonsense.

'There were no surprises (in Ferguson's new book, which came out in 2013). He accused me of managing United behind his back, but I managed the dressing room.'
On the pair's relationship Keane said: 'Non existent. Nothing surprises me these days with that man.

'Control and power, that's how he works. He is still striving for it now even though he isn't the manager. There is a massive ego involved.'

In contrast, Keane has always spoken fondly of Clough. While he has accused Ferguson of not ‘knowing the meaning of loyalty’, he says Clough always treated him with respect.
He said: ‘A brilliant, brilliant manager. The man was a genius, he was good to me, good to my family, he never lied to me, he treated me with respect and gave me time off when I was homesick.

“You look what Brian Clough achieved and it’s scary. Winning the European Cup back to back with a club like Forest, unbelievable. I don’t think we’ll ever appreciate what the man did.

 

[Anonymous]

Arsene Wenger, who has seen his Arsenal team recently beat Forest's unbeaten 42-match league record, said Clough was a true legend of English football.

"I remember watching his teams play and I would say that the Forest side of the late 1970s will go down in history as one of the all-time greats," said Wenger.

"It is not an exaggeration to say that I was truly touched recently when he complimented the way this current Arsenal side plays and that we deserved to break his record.

"People use the word legend too freely but Brian Clough is a true legend of English football and his success in this country and in Europe is a legacy for which he will always be remembered."

Sir Alex Ferguson and his Manchester United side locked horns with Clough during the 1980s and 90s.

Ferguson said: "He's done something unique. He's won two leagues with provincial teams, not the big guns, and he's won the European Cup twice in a row with a provincial team.

"He was eccentric at times, but I don't think there was anything wrong with that.

"I quite enjoyed some of it, though I was sometimes on the end of it."


Roy Keane

Roy Keane says Brian Clough was a better manager than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Keane was signed by Clough for Nottingham Forest in 1990 and spent three years at the club before Ferguson broke the then British transfer record to bring him to Old Trafford for £3.75million.

Keane would go on to become Manchester United captain and win seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and one Champions League under Ferguson.

But, in his new autobiography The Second Half, Keane says he still rates Clough as the better of the two, claiming Ferguson was 'pure business' and lacked warmth.
'I worked under two great managers and I put Brian Clough ahead of Alex Ferguson for a simple reason. What was the most important thing in my football career? Brian Clough signing me. That kick started everything,' he writes.

'Different managers, both brilliant. I think Clough’s warmth was genuine. I think with Sir Alex Ferguson it was pure business – everything is business. If he was being nice I would think: ‘This is business, this’.

'He was driven and ruthless. That lack of warmth was his strength. United was a much bigger club than Forest but his coldness made him successful.
'His message was the same. I was never once confused by one of his team talks or his tactics or his training. The message was always fresh. I must have heard him talk 500 times and I always thought: ‘Yeah, that was good’.

'I think that’s amazing. As a manager I would take Clough’s warmth and Ferguson’s ruthlessness and put them in the mix – but also add my own traits.'
Keane's relationship with the most decorated manager in English football deteriorated towards the end of his career at United.

Keane, now assistant manager at Aston Villa, left United in 2005 after he criticised his team-mates to MUTV after a 4-1 defeat to Middlesborough.
That explosive interview - which Keane describes as 'not too bad' in his new book - led to a furious training ground bust up with Ferguson, assistant boss Carlos Queiroz and goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar.

Queiroz accused Keane of showing a lack of loyalty to his team-mates and when Ferguson stepped in to diffuse the situation, Keane said: 'You as well gaffer. We need f****** more from you. We need a bit more, gaffer. We're slipping behind other teams.'

A few weeks later, Keane was left out of a reserve game and when he questioned Ferguson about it he was told he could leave the club.
The pair's relationship has never recovered and Keane described it as 'non existent' in an ITV documentary last year - in which he also said 'Brian Clough, without a doubt' was the best manager he played for.

He added: 'I never thought for a second that I was more important than the manager. Absolute nonsense.

'There were no surprises (in Ferguson's new book, which came out in 2013). He accused me of managing United behind his back, but I managed the dressing room.'
On the pair's relationship Keane said: 'Non existent. Nothing surprises me these days with that man.

'Control and power, that's how he works. He is still striving for it now even though he isn't the manager. There is a massive ego involved.'

In contrast, Keane has always spoken fondly of Clough. While he has accused Ferguson of not ‘knowing the meaning of loyalty’, he says Clough always treated him with respect.
He said: ‘A brilliant, brilliant manager. The man was a genius, he was good to me, good to my family, he never lied to me, he treated me with respect and gave me time off when I was homesick.

“You look what Brian Clough achieved and it’s scary. Winning the European Cup back to back with a club like Forest, unbelievable. I don’t think we’ll ever appreciate what the man did.

When they say nice things about you then you really know you have failed and he ended his career as a giant failure and probably out of all that won big things like he did he had the worst end of all to his career. I often use the comment about not playing longballs but in them days all teams did and almost had to and his sides were no different. I have seen his Forest side with him as manager many times bot live and on tv and it was anti-football. It was if you like the opposite to the dutch total football in that sense.

I read this thread and find that you first claimed to be a Fulham fan and now you are a Forest fan and maybe one day you will come out as a Man United fan but only when they start winning again, eh?

Arsene Wenger, LOL!

 

[Anonymous]

Keane is bonkers and I think by now the world sees that as a fact. I could tell people a few stories about the man but it's not appropriate on these pages. What hurt Keane the most when Haaland attacked him when he got injured at Forest playing for United was the fact that Keane is and always will be a Forest fan. The best players rarely support the club they achieved things at.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

When they say nice things about you then you really know you have failed and he ended his career as a giant failure and probably out of all that won big things like he did he had the worst end of all to his career. I often use the comment about not playing longballs but in them days all teams did and almost had to and his sides were no different. I have seen his Forest side with him as manager many times bot live and on tv and it was anti-football. It was if you like the opposite to the dutch total football in that sense.

I read this thread and find that you first claimed to be a Fulham fan and now you are a Forest fan and maybe one day you will come out as a Man United fan but only when they start winning again, eh?

Arsene Wenger, LOL!

And thus confirming yourself as a complete f***ing idiot.

It's obvious that you never actually saw a Clough team play and you're basing your whole knowledge on The Damned United, a work of fiction. You possess a level of stupidity I've only seen in dobermans.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you seriously comparing Clough with Sir Alex?

Cloughie would not be fit to lace Sir Alex shoes.

Both won the European Cup/Champions League twice (Old European Cup included crap european sides with no pedigree and it was so much easier to win then).

Fergie won the league 13 times and Clough did it twice (LOL)

Clough never won the FA Cup (oh poor chap) and Fergie won it 5 times which includes 3 doubles not to mention the treble of course.

They both won the League Cup 4 times (way to go Cloughie you were as good as the Big Man there).

Cloughie win the super cup (a one off game with no significance at all). Fergie won the Cup Winners Cup and became club world champion twice (Not mentioning the Cup Winners Cup win at Aberdeen and how he ended the Glasgow dominance).

There is simply no comparing the two and Clough looks like a small time manager in comparison and now you can go on and call all United fans ignorant and full of ourselves because we have the right to be because of Fergie.

I honestly thought Cloughie for all the noise some are making had won loads more and his stats are ridiculous. He is surely the most overhyped manager of all that people claim won a lot when in fairness he is way back in the line of successful managers. It is embarrassing to read about his "success". He won one European Cup by beating a swedish club, I mean come on people.

 

[Anonymous]

And thus confirming yourself as a complete f***ing idiot.

It's obvious that you never actually saw a Clough team play and you're basing your whole knowledge on The Damned United, a work of fiction. You possess a level of stupidity I've only seen in dobermans.

I am a fan of Tottingham Forest too just like you, come on stand strong!

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

I am a fan of Tottingham Forest too just like you, come on stand strong!

You're a fan of licking windows.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Ugly long ball football

 

[Anonymous]

And thus confirming yourself as a complete f***ing idiot.

It's obvious that you never actually saw a Clough team play and you're basing your whole knowledge on The Damned United, a work of fiction. You possess a level of stupidity I've only seen in dobermans.

The film is based on facts and to show this it is mixed with old actual recordings from the time. You need to learn a thing or two about opinion and how to manage the fact that people do not agree with you.

Still laughing at Cloughies poor record as manager compared with many others.

 

[Anonymous]

Ugly long ball football

Clumsy and no technique at all and players all seemed to have one leg only. That is a real testament to how much the game has improved. At times I can appreciate the old style in cup games when lesser sides try to frustrate the bigger clubs but on a whole we are glad it is a thing of the past.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

The film is based on facts and to show this it is mixed with old actual recordings from the time. You need to learn a thing or two about opinion and how to manage the fact that people do not agree with you.

Still laughing at Cloughies poor record as manager compared with many others.

You need to stop talking utter bollocks. Go watch some actual clips of Clough's teams and then link us the proof of them being an ugly long ball team. Until then shut the f*** up eh.

Who are these other managers that never managed a big club yet won two European Cups, three League titles and eight other Cups? We can discount the two European Semi-Finals he lost in thanks to refs who took a bribe.

Link us a few clips. Like I said, you can't and you won't because you're talking bollocks because you're a f***ing idiot who having realised you've made a complete tit of yourself still can't climb down and admit you're wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

You need to stop talking utter bollocks. Go watch some actual clips of Clough's teams and then link us the proof of them being an ugly long ball team. Until then shut the f*** up eh.

Who are these other managers that never managed a big club yet won two European Cups, three League titles and eight other Cups? We can discount the two European Semi-Finals he lost in thanks to refs who took a bribe.

Link us a few clips. Like I said, you can't and you won't because you're talking bollocks because you're a f***ing idiot who having realised you've made a complete tit of yourself still can't climb down and admit you're wrong.

You need to read up on laws and what is allowed to do and what is not. You claim a film can depict a man in any way it wants to and that shows that you have no insight into the business of film making which is very controlled.

Even if you did not like it then that does not mean the film is a lie and it was a brilliant film that showed how Clough suffered from a complicated relationship with authorities and that haunted him his whole life to the point he needed a drink to forget about it.

The scenes in the film is mixed with authentic recordings showing the same thing and as you well know those recordings are out there and it's just for you to compare them. Had it been like you said the film makers would have sued to the stars. You really are chasing shadows in every thread you post in.

 

[Anonymous]

The real interview on tv part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJHvg5c7vPE

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPwJlqmyJM

The film shows the same thing and same words said but with actors. You should see it as you obviously haven't. I also read numerous reviews on the film commenting on the authencity of the interview because it is there for all to see online.

You must be wearing a tinfoil hat.

 

[Anonymous]

Part 3 when it really boils over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfKm12SJwJY

Clough is a kid spitting his dummy out and Revie is cool and collected. Revie totally owned him there. There is your idol Clough, LOL.

I think Clough was under the influence during the interview.

 

[Don Revie]

You need to stop talking utter bollocks. Go watch some actual clips of Clough's teams and then link us the proof of them being an ugly long ball team. Until then shut the f*** up eh.

Who are these other managers that never managed a big club yet won two European Cups, three League titles and eight other Cups? We can discount the two European Semi-Finals he lost in thanks to refs who took a bribe.

Link us a few clips. Like I said, you can't and you won't because you're talking bollocks because you're a f***ing idiot who having realised you've made a complete tit of yourself still can't climb down and admit you're wrong.

Not wanting to disrupt your debate here but didn't you swear to leave this thread way back like a kid running home from the playground?

 

[Anonymous]

You need to stop talking utter bollocks. Go watch some actual clips of Clough's teams and then link us the proof of them being an ugly long ball team. Until then shut the f*** up eh.

Who are these other managers that never managed a big club yet won two European Cups, three League titles and eight other Cups? We can discount the two European Semi-Finals he lost in thanks to refs who took a bribe.

Link us a few clips. Like I said, you can't and you won't because you're talking bollocks because you're a f***ing idiot who having realised you've made a complete tit of yourself still can't climb down and admit you're wrong.

The clips of Clough and Revie are like you on here. You try to construct an opinion and when it is questioned you lose it all and start using swear words and then desperately try and cover your tracks up by yet more abuse. You must be going through divorce or something serious.