smiler
Junior Member
Its just that you don't know what you are talking about and yet you continue to talk.... - its yawnsome
Its just that you don't know what you are talking about and yet you continue to talk.... - its yawnsome
Shame
New Member
So I challenge an opinion and you retort with some sort of personal insult? I'll overlook the immature debate tactics as long as you kindly explain how I 'don't know what I'm talking about.' Pretty much everything I said in my post was opinion, so I don't understand your conclusion.
murder and desire
Junior Member
Well, I can understand why may people dislike the song- such things are subjective. I rather like it myself... I certainly do not think it signals the end of Morrisseys talent. People have been saying nearly every single is a true sign of his muse running away from him at full speed-certainly since Ouija Board (which the music press dubbed his Laughing Gnome).
I think its just as good a song as, say, Alma Matters or Fatty. I would say Art Hounds and Scandinavia show that he is still far from running on empty and better than a number of his 90s songs.
To say, Moz is fat is silly...he isn't, He looks well these days. To belittle Nico is a mistake, she is one of the better voices out there and is hugely influential.
It does seem to be the same old people moaning about the same old things, no matter what the question the same old answer is shoe horned in, relevant or not.
I think its just as good a song as, say, Alma Matters or Fatty. I would say Art Hounds and Scandinavia show that he is still far from running on empty and better than a number of his 90s songs.
To say, Moz is fat is silly...he isn't, He looks well these days. To belittle Nico is a mistake, she is one of the better voices out there and is hugely influential.
It does seem to be the same old people moaning about the same old things, no matter what the question the same old answer is shoe horned in, relevant or not.
smiler
Junior Member
but what is your opinion based on - reason? experience? pure inspiration?
Your critique is not enlightening or even interesting, it's baseless and it doesn't ring true. Do you have any experience as a writer or performer or are you just a wannabe critic? Your opinion is just boring - sorry
There has always been people like you complaining about "the band" even when that band was The Smiths - your type are never happy until its too late. Often the people who complain about an album on release end up calling the same release the last "great album" years later. Makes me wonder, perhaps its a psychological thing, when for example someone first finds Morrissey's music these days they have a massive back catalogue of hundreds of songs to get through, some songs they will instantly love, some will grow on them and some they will not "get" until much later. A new release is bound to disappoint at some level and won't be judged in the same way.
Will "now" ever be as good as "then" i wonder?
and i can not forgive your ignorance.
Shame
New Member
You're just demonstrating how the internet is a foul place for pretending to understand a stranger. I'm not one of 'those people' who complain about the band just to complain. I don't like all of the recent music, that is all. How is that 'baseless'? Or even 'boring'? It's just what I feel about some songs that a man and a band made. That's literally it. Liking/disliking some songs and explaining why doesn't make a person a 'wannabe critic.' What an unusual thing to suggest.
Music taste, as with absolutely everything, is entirely subjective. I don't deduce a musical point of view based on quantitative reasoning - I listen and see if I like it or not. Sorry if that somehow bores you, or if it makes me seem like a 'wannabe critic.' I hate to continue this strange discussion, but what ignorance have I displayed?
I really tried to just present a few opinions without causing a weird argument, but you don't seem to understand that we just reckon different things. I don't mind that you like/dislike some songs. Why do you mind if I do? Why make, to use a word of yours, 'baseless' assumptions about me? And what makes an opinion about Morrissey 'enlightening'?
smiler
Junior Member
perhaps my comments would have been better directed at the thread starter rather than you. Its just that some people always complain about the new songs without ever really getting to know them or giving them a chance or because they have another agenda altogether usually an attempt to bay Morrissey into retirement (which seems to be the intention of many posters who live on these boards.) these people are loathed to like anything new and their ill informed critique and lack of perspective and perception betrays that.
The fact is the music continues to change and develop and remains interesting and inspiring - haven't you noticed? i remember how First of the Gang and Irish blood were greeted on here when they were first heard, yet many people now long for a return to those days. To say he is in a rut is, in my mind, to have cloth ears.
Shame
New Member
I have indeed noticed, but his 'bad' music (purely in my opinion, of course; there is no objectively 'bad' music) isn't limited to recent years - there are a few Smiths tunes I don't particularly enjoy, and several solo tracks from the '90s.
Sporadic variation; that's what Morrissey's career means to me. Who knows? Perhaps he'll soon come out with a tune that I'll absolutely love. I certainly enjoy what I've heard so far of Art-hounds, for example.
ANYWAY. Conan. Did he not do an interview with Mozzer?
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I'd Love To
Member
He did not. Was introduced, performed, closed out the show by standing awkwardly in front of audience.
Vauxhall95
I Know It's Over...
I cut a good deal of your original post, as I wanted to address this "out of ideas" issue you brought up.
Frankly, I find the dearth of new ideas a little mystifying. Taken within the context of Morrissey's life, this year has been relatively eventful: we saw him banning an uber fan, taking dead aim at this fan site, rioting in England, the horrid massacre in Norway related to anti immigration sentiments, making nice with Kristeen Young, embracing Lady Gaga, selling his music for a TV pay day, and those are simply the widely known public issues surrounding him. Is there really nothing in life which interests him?
And if he no longer is inspired as he once used to be? There are options. I agree with an earlier poster who remarked at how good his voice sounded last night. For the seemingly 1 millionth time, this evening I would pre-order an acoustic album of hand chosen material. He has such a wonderful voice, and many of the songs and albums he insists are rockers would sound amazing when performed acoustically.
Finally, I'll echo the maddening manner in which Moz seems to sabotage his own career. He had a now rare American mainstream forum, and he doesn't play the best of the new batch of songs? Why would you do that? The man is a professional pop music efficiendo, certainly he knows what his best material is. He received a nice, thunderous welcome. He was essentially auditioning for a record deal, and that's the song he goes to?! It's just bizarre behavior.
toml_27
Well I Wonder
I really don't like this song. What's happening to our number one guy? The lyrics, melodies, instrumentals; all of them just aren't good.
I mean reading words like these - 'Set me aside, you'll find People are the same everywhere. Hoist me from the herd and People are the same everywhere' - they could easily be mistaken for the teenage egocentric lyrics of some amateur school rockband... 'the herd', 'the group' - what are these tiresome cliches? And what kind of message even is this? People are the same everywhere? Really? That's such a heartfelt, beautiful observation, I just connect so deeply with his words... Where's the poetry gone? Admittedly the third verse gets better, but really, these are just bitter rants that perpetuate a laughably false idea, and make morrissey look pretty past-it by singing them. You can't try to cling to notions of alienation and disillusionment being explored, when this comes from such a voice of contempt and authority in the song. And don't even get me started on the god damned guitars... talk about making a bad thing worse.
I guess my main point is that were this exact song written and sung by another current artist, people, im pretty sure, would be quick to disregard it as dull and grating. I feel like people are just liking it for the fact that its a morrissey song. Especially with such exciting music constantly being produced at the moment (despite whatever moz says about so-and-so being the ONLY promising band he's heard in years amongst such repetitive dreariness -such an ignorant claim), this really shows the weakness and unoriginality of these songs in contrast. As I discover more and more great new stuff, I found myself losing more and more interest with the current morrissey - it pains me to say, but I just feel he is barely relevant to me anymore. Yes, the live experience will always be enthralling, and yes scandinavia is definitely more promising, but again I feel a large part of my fondness for the song trying to cling to morrissey, looking only for the positives and deluding myself to the negatives.
Even to claim PATSE should be more of a b-side is an insult to moz. Let us not forget such great songs as Jack the Ripper and I Used to be a Sweet Boy were both b-sides, and are utterly incomparable to this current stuff. I know it's absurd to expect a consistency of such greatness, but I know, and i think we all know, that morrissey definitely has far greater potential within him. It all boils down to the issue of stubornness - I know his self-asuredness and belief are characteristics that make contribute to his brilliance, but they also mean he gets entirely stuck in his ways and won't listen to any constructive feedback he receives from his most loyal fans (see moz vs. moz-solo case). It seems so paradoxical that he can at the same time lament the repeated chart-failings of his singles and also dismiss the opinion of those telling him why they are not buying them. But then I guess people must just be the same everywhere, unable to comprehend the brilliance of his current vision...
I'm not calling for a 'stick to what you're good at', manufacturing album after album of mindless vauxhal and I variations (although that certainly wouldn't be scoffed at
), but rather a sensitivity to his obvious fortes, and an appreciation of what gained him such devotion in his career to this point. Whilst evolution is undoubtedly a positive force, I feel morrissey is regressing, simply changing his artistry for the worse, rather than evolving it into an exciting synthesis of old and new. Come on Moz, we know you have it in you, shake yourself out of your mindset, bring back the beauty (and yes, im sure he will be reading this post... its not a pointless address... lol)
end rant.
I mean reading words like these - 'Set me aside, you'll find People are the same everywhere. Hoist me from the herd and People are the same everywhere' - they could easily be mistaken for the teenage egocentric lyrics of some amateur school rockband... 'the herd', 'the group' - what are these tiresome cliches? And what kind of message even is this? People are the same everywhere? Really? That's such a heartfelt, beautiful observation, I just connect so deeply with his words... Where's the poetry gone? Admittedly the third verse gets better, but really, these are just bitter rants that perpetuate a laughably false idea, and make morrissey look pretty past-it by singing them. You can't try to cling to notions of alienation and disillusionment being explored, when this comes from such a voice of contempt and authority in the song. And don't even get me started on the god damned guitars... talk about making a bad thing worse.
I guess my main point is that were this exact song written and sung by another current artist, people, im pretty sure, would be quick to disregard it as dull and grating. I feel like people are just liking it for the fact that its a morrissey song. Especially with such exciting music constantly being produced at the moment (despite whatever moz says about so-and-so being the ONLY promising band he's heard in years amongst such repetitive dreariness -such an ignorant claim), this really shows the weakness and unoriginality of these songs in contrast. As I discover more and more great new stuff, I found myself losing more and more interest with the current morrissey - it pains me to say, but I just feel he is barely relevant to me anymore. Yes, the live experience will always be enthralling, and yes scandinavia is definitely more promising, but again I feel a large part of my fondness for the song trying to cling to morrissey, looking only for the positives and deluding myself to the negatives.
Even to claim PATSE should be more of a b-side is an insult to moz. Let us not forget such great songs as Jack the Ripper and I Used to be a Sweet Boy were both b-sides, and are utterly incomparable to this current stuff. I know it's absurd to expect a consistency of such greatness, but I know, and i think we all know, that morrissey definitely has far greater potential within him. It all boils down to the issue of stubornness - I know his self-asuredness and belief are characteristics that make contribute to his brilliance, but they also mean he gets entirely stuck in his ways and won't listen to any constructive feedback he receives from his most loyal fans (see moz vs. moz-solo case). It seems so paradoxical that he can at the same time lament the repeated chart-failings of his singles and also dismiss the opinion of those telling him why they are not buying them. But then I guess people must just be the same everywhere, unable to comprehend the brilliance of his current vision...
I'm not calling for a 'stick to what you're good at', manufacturing album after album of mindless vauxhal and I variations (although that certainly wouldn't be scoffed at
), but rather a sensitivity to his obvious fortes, and an appreciation of what gained him such devotion in his career to this point. Whilst evolution is undoubtedly a positive force, I feel morrissey is regressing, simply changing his artistry for the worse, rather than evolving it into an exciting synthesis of old and new. Come on Moz, we know you have it in you, shake yourself out of your mindset, bring back the beauty (and yes, im sure he will be reading this post... its not a pointless address... lol)end rant.
Jamie
Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.
Really, this deceptively pithy statement speaks volumes about the state of Morrissey's career and musical (mis)direction. He has always been willfully contradictory and stroppy - but this new crop of songs for the most part seems like a car stuck in one gear. I had such high hopes when I saw the titles before the Janice Long session and when Action began with the lovely keyboard part, I thought we were turning a corner. And then big drums, recycled chords, bombastic chorus. And it's much the same on most of the other new songs, with last night's performance being a true headscratcher for all the national exposure he was getting.
The stasis of his musical partners, whether by his direction or happenstance, does not bode well. And, let's not be coy, the absence of Alain as a songwriter is a dreadful prospect. It's amazing how Southpaw used to get so much stick and was very misunderstood. I feel it "rocks" with subtle nuance. This material "rocks" in a largely inarticulate fashion. It's distressing that someone who has such a diverse, often deeply nonconventional set of influences, someone who has been gifted with a voice that seems to improve with age, whiles away the latter days of his career with such utterly conventional music.
Vauxhall95
I Know It's Over...
Fair enough. You make salient points about what is eventful/uneventful; however I'm approaching this from the angle of what is eventful compared to the cliched dreck on YOR (my opinion). In essence, I was merely pointing out that things have happened in Morrissey's life that lend themselves to lyrics about something other than bailiffs and high court judges.
I understand that many of the examples seemed trite, take the reconciliation with Kristeen Young; however, you must admit that was a rarity for him. How many times have we read stories of Morrissey faxing someone their walking papers? For whatever reason (his relationship with Visconti?), he made amends. That's a rarity for him.
The only aspect we fundamentally disagree with is I believe Morrissey is the one in the musical rut. It's his band, and he has final say over staffing and artistic direction. I believe the current band is constructed in such a way that Morrissey is center stage, tha main attraction, and he feels very comfortable in that role. He seemingly does not want to share the spotlight with a flash guitar player, or anyone else.
Gentler Words
New Member
The main thing I take from this performance is that Morrissey sounded great, looked healthy, and seemed to be having fun. I think that bodes well for future releases/performances.
I also agree with the vocal majority (?) who are saying PATSE seems to be b-side material. It's good b-side material and a little catchy, and yes, I liked it a little more in this performance than any of the others, but it's still b-side material. Art-Hounds, Scandinavia, and Action is My Middle Name have lots of promise, however, and hopefully he can muster up another 7-9 quality tracks to go with those 3 and tone down the loudness that seems to be prevailing lately and we'll have a good album. Fingers crossed.
I also agree with the vocal majority (?) who are saying PATSE seems to be b-side material. It's good b-side material and a little catchy, and yes, I liked it a little more in this performance than any of the others, but it's still b-side material. Art-Hounds, Scandinavia, and Action is My Middle Name have lots of promise, however, and hopefully he can muster up another 7-9 quality tracks to go with those 3 and tone down the loudness that seems to be prevailing lately and we'll have a good album. Fingers crossed.
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
I love this song.
Skylarker, why you have decided to move on from making interesting and thoughtful posts to insults I don't know. Shame. Also congratulations on achieving objectivity.
Being a mere mortal I also like this song aswell as the YOR. I guess this means the discussion is not for me either. I do not have a vibrator but I do have an anal probe. Shall I put this down?
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
EW! Put it down where? Your butthole?
I start the week praising Skylarker and end the week being insulted by him. Oh well, what can you do? That's the internet!
Surely that would putting it 'up'?
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
It depends on how you're laying...
Look, I do not like what you are implying. I have not used probes of any sort in years. I much prefer small rodents.
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