Tell us about the last film you watched, pt 2

[Lucifer Sam]

Today I watched That Hamilton Woman! (1941). The exclamation mark is only found on some of the promotional posters. Sometimes it is called Lady Hamilton and other times just That Hamilton Woman. The exclamation point makes the woman sound pesky, as if the speaker wants to be rid of her, like That Darn Cat! But I suppose the British public did find her an annoyance of sorts, as an item of gossip, and the seductress of their naval champ Lord Nelson. A quote on a poster reads, "I forgot that once I was a nobody and that today they call me that Hamilton woman!"

Exposition schools us in how Emma Hamilton was a poor country girl who parlayed her good looks and talent for exotic dancing into a position of favor with the men of high society. She's the muse of a portrait painter until a fiancé with gambling debts sells her into marriage to his middle-aged uncle, the British Ambassador in Naples. She takes her lumps and manages to settle in there, becoming Eliza to his Higgins. She blossoms into a popular hostess on the scene. This goes on until Nelson's fleet arrives in Naples; she assists him in some Italian diplomatic matters where her husband was not coming through as quick as needed. Their affair begins.

The movie is best in its second hour, when the Hamiltons (now refugees from Naples) arrive with Nelson in London, and the affair is known. Here it becomes a delicious little chamber drama, with all the tension between the admiral and his wife Frances, and between Frances and Emma. "It's the oldest story in the world, the most sordid & contemptible. Find a public hero and there you'll find, sure as fate, a woman parasite," says Lady Nelson. She takes her own lumps. She keeps her dignity and refuses her husband a divorce. Nelson's vicar father takes her in, considering his son a disgrace. We are told that she lives out a simple life dispensing Christian charity to the poor—what should've been the lot of a repentant Magdalen, when all she ever did was have the misfortune of being jilted by her sailor man. This aspect of her biography makes her more interesting to me than Hamilton's or Nelson's.

It ends with twenty minutes of heavy-handed "Rule Britannia" bombast of cannons and sea foam at Trafalgar. Yawn. I would've preferred a film about Lady Nelson, who went off into obscurity with an Anglican priest. It could be modeled on Hester Gibbon living like a renunciant in perfect chastity with William Law, praying the Psalms every morning, noon, and night, and working in soup kitchens, a meager and sexless existence. This sort of thing can be cinematic in its own way, like the 1986 film Thérèse about the Little Flower.

 

[cat on a train]

First insects, then people?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

National Velvet (1944). I thought "National Velvet" would be the name of the horse. But no: the girl's name is Velvet and she enters the horse in the Grand National. It takes place in an alternate 1920s England where English accents vary widely from character to character, and two of its main themes are "having a spiritual connection with an animal" and "believing in the power of your dreams," which are not my kind of themes. It charmed me nonetheless.

Reading Elizabeth Taylor's Wikipedia page just now, I had no idea she was a convert to Judaism and an ardent supporter of the Zionist cause. I have a cousin who converted to Judaism, but it was strictly for a marriage. She was a nominal Catholic and didn't see any reason not to become a nominal Jew for the sake of religious unity for the children. It was sort of a "whatevs." Taylor said she didn't covert on account of either of her two Jewish husbands. She said she just always "felt Jewish."

 

[Lucifer Sam]

The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960). Peter Finch as Wilde, and the great James Mason in a minor but crucial role as the barrister who defended Queensberry and savaged Wilde on the stand. Their bickering was inspired, and Mason's sonorous voice is at its best when he's scorching someone. Even though he was in the service of a vicious bigot, it took serious talent on that attorney's part to push Wilde's gift for brilliant quips and deft evasions to the point of exhaustion. His name was Edward Carson. It looks like there's a BBC documentary on him, Edward Carson And The Fall Of Oscar Wilde. I think I'll watch that next.

The first half is a society drama, the second is a courtroom thriller. The only historical liberty I noticed was that the Robbie Ross character was presented as straight—probably necessary, given when the film was made. There looks to be a painting of Salome with the head of John the Baptist in the stairwell of Lady Wilde's home; a nice touch. "The reward of the dancer is the death of the prophet." Lord Alfred Douglas is played by John Fraser, who was in Roman Polanski's Repulsion. I liked him better than Colin Morgan in The Happy Prince (2018), but not as much as the excellent young Jude Law in Wilde (1997). I don't like to criticize someone's acting on account of their appearance, but Colin Morgan just had too much of a "cutesy boy-band twink" look for my tastes, and I couldn't get past it. Obviously he can't help it if he has bright, sparkly eyes. Wikipedia says he is a vegetarian. No malice intended, Colin Morgan.

Bosie is an interesting character who probably deserves a movie of his own, because while Wilde had the good taste to convert to Catholicism on his deathbed, Douglas made the mistake of converting midstream in life, and disgraced himself by becoming an arch fogey and taking up the familiar Catholic vice of anti-Semitism. I've considered getting Douglas Murray's biography of him ever since I enjoyed Murray's book on immigration, The Strange Death of Europe. I don't care for Murray as a person, but the Bosie book is well-reviewed. He wrote it when he was twenty. That's impressive. Unfortunately, five years later he wrote a book called Neoconservatism: Why We Need It, and it's hard to respect someone who writes a book with that title unironically. He's also one to fawn over Jordan Peterson, always the sign of a warped mind. His next book will probably be The Crisis of Masculinity: Why Our Boys Need to Eat Meat and Man Up. But I digress.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960). Peter Finch as Wilde, and the great James Mason in a minor but crucial role as the barrister who defended Queensberry and savaged Wilde on the stand. Their bickering was inspired, and Mason's sonorous voice is at its best when he's scorching someone. Even though he was in the service of a vicious bigot, it took serious talent on that attorney's part to push Wilde's talent for brilliant quips and deft evasions to the point of exhaustion. His name was Edward Carson. It looks like there's a BBC documentary on him, Edward Carson And The Fall Of Oscar Wilde. I think I'll watch that next.

The first half is a society drama, the second is a courtroom thriller. The only historical liberty I noticed was that the Robbie Ross character was presented as straight—probably necessary, given when the film was made. There looks to be a painting of Salome with the head of John the Baptist in the stairwell of Lady Wilde's home; a nice touch. "The reward of the dancer is the death of the prophet." Lord Alfred Douglas is played by John Fraser, who was in Roman Polanski's Repulsion. I liked him better than Colin Morgan in The Happy Prince (2018), but not as much as the excellent young Jude Law in Wilde (1997). I don't like to criticize someone's acting on account of their appearance, but Colin Morgan just had too much of a "cutesy boy-band twink" look for my tastes, and I couldn't get past it. Obviously he can't help it if he has bright, sparkly eyes. Wikipedia says he is a vegetarian. No malice intended, Colin Morgan.

Bosie is an interesting character who probably deserves a movie of his own, because while Wilde had the good taste to convert to Catholicism on his deathbed, Douglas made the mistake of converting midstream in life, and disgraced himself by becoming an arch fogey and taking up the familiar Catholic vice of anti-Semitism. I've considered getting Douglas Murray's biography of him ever since I enjoyed Murray's book on immigration, The Strange Death of Europe. I don't care for Murray as a person, but the Bosie book is well-reviewed. He wrote it when he was twenty. That's impressive. Unfortunately, five years later he wrote a book called Neoconservatism: Why We Need It, and it's hard to respect someone who writes a book with that title unironically. He's also one to fawn over Jordan Peterson, always the sign of a warped mind. His next book will probably be The Crisis of Masculinity: Why Our Boys Need to Eat Meat and Man Up. But I digress.

That Edward Carson And The Fall Of...is quite a good documentary, actually.
Runs about an hour.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

That Edward Carson And The Fall Of...is quite a good documentary, actually.
Runs about an hour.

You're right, this was good. The documentarian is Wilde's grandson. I think I liked Rupert Everett's commentary best (brief though it was), particularly how he articulated his theory of Wilde's curious impetus to sue Queensberry. The comparisons to Christ have been endlessly made in terms of their common martyrdom and posthumous glory, but as Everett suggests, perhaps there's another, more egotistical similarity: they both genuinely believed overmuch in their own hype.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

You're right, this was good. The documentarian is Wilde's grandson. I think I liked Rupert Everett's commentary best (brief though it was), particularly how he articulated his theory of Wilde's curious impetus to sue Queensberry. The comparisons to Christ have been endlessly made in terms of their common martyrdom and posthumous glory, but as Everett suggests, perhaps there's another, more egotistical similarity: they both genuinely believed overmuch in their own hype.

I think the really interesting part was the power of the 'establishment', &/or how it was manipulated to relentlessly pursue OW, & how the threat to expose them (re; the other son rumoured to have been engaged in a homosexual relationship with the then Liberal Prime Minister) was conducted by Queensberry. Corruption & coercion at every turn, it would seem.
Fascinating story.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I think the really interesting part was the power of the 'establishment', &/or how it was manipulated to relentlessly pursue OW, & how the threat to expose them (re; the other son rumoured to have been engaged in a homosexual relationship with the then Liberal Prime Minister) was conducted by Queensberry. Corruption & coercion at every turn, it would seem.
Fascinating story.

Yes, that was intriguing too. The funeral of Bosie's brother earns a scene in the 1960 film, but no suggestion is made that it might've been a suicide of sexual shame, nor of his connection with the PM. As someone in the documentary says, "one son rumored to be gay is just an anomaly—but two sons, and it starts to look like it's hereditary" as an explanation for Queensberry's mania.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

Yes, that was intriguing too. The funeral of Bosie's brother earns a scene in the 1960 film, but no suggestion is made that it might've been a suicide of sexual shame, nor of his connection with the PM. As someone in the documentary says, "one son rumored to be gay is just an anomaly—but two sons, and it starts to look like it's hereditary" as an explanation for Queensberry's mania.

Indeed. 2 sons, both gay must have raised eyebrows, as well as many questions, or indeed inferences re; Queensberry. Maybe another story from the depths in the offing at some point?

 

[gashonthenail]

You're right, this was good. The documentarian is Wilde's grandson. I think I liked Rupert Everett's commentary best (brief though it was), particularly how he articulated his theory of Wilde's curious impetus to sue Queensberry. The comparisons to Christ have been endlessly made in terms of their common martyrdom and posthumous glory, but as Everett suggests, perhaps there's another, more egotistical similarity: they both genuinely believed overmuch in their own hype.

Edward Carson - the man who led the unionist opposition to Home Rule for Ireland that eventually led to the partition of Ireland. Apparently he petitioned the UK government to commute Wilde's sentence to a lesser one.

 

[gashonthenail]

He did indeed, but owing to coercion by Queensberry, & the threat to expose the then PM's activities (with son no.2), Wilde was further pursued, as explained earlier, above.

The involvement of the government and members of the royal family in such 'scandals' is an interesting one, going back to the Cleveland Street Scandal.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

The involvement of the government and members of the royal family in such 'scandals' is an interesting one, going back to the Cleveland Street Scandal.

Apologies, I misread your post & therefore my response may have been inaccurate, so have deleted it, accordingly.
Carson did try & prevent the pursuit of Wilde after the first court case, but I wasn't aware that he tried to get his sentence reduced.

 

[gordyboy9]

south korean thriller Unlocked,fantastic,just shows what can happen if you lose your phone and the wrong person finds it.
south korean cinema is the best in the world,hollywood is done and has been done for at least 10 years.

 

[gashonthenail]

Apologies, I misread your post & therefore my response may have been inaccurate, so have deleted it, accordingly.
Carson did try & prevent the pursuit of Wilde after the first court case, but I wasn't aware that he tried to get his sentence reduced.

They had of course been students at Trinity College Dublin at the same time. Whether they were actually friends though is unlikely - Wilde apparently said when he found out that Carson would be cross-examining him in the libel trial, that Carson would “no doubt perform his task with all the added bitterness of an old friend”. Some irony there I think. The suggestion being that they were maybe the opposite of friends at university and there was some history of animosity between them. At the time of the libel trial Carson is reported to have described Wilde as a 'charlatan'. Despite the animosity though, it is reported that Carson didn't think Wilde should be prosecuted for gross indecency and that by losing the libel trial Wilde and his reputation had suffered enough.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

They had of course been students at Trinity College Dublin at the same time. Whether they were actually friends though is unlikely - Wilde apparently said when he found out that Carson would be cross-examining him in the libel trial, that Carson would “no doubt perform his task with all the added bitterness of an old friend”. Some irony there I think. The suggestion being that they were maybe the opposite of friends at university and there was some history of animosity between them. At the time of the libel trial Carson is reported to have described Wilde as a 'charlatan'. Despite the animosity though, it is reported that Carson didn't think Wilde should be prosecuted for gross indecency and that by losing the libel trial Wilde and his reputation had suffered enough.

Yes, I knew they'd been at Trinity together, but Wilde was shipped off to Magdalen (interestingly pronounced Maudlin - as in Maudlin Street) after a short while, which was considered an inferior university at the time. Yes, the reputational damage being enough was interesting, and made me think that maybe some conscience pricking had taken place after all, possibly based on their previous time at Trinity, however tenuous their 'friendship' might have been. Unfortunately though, the establishment (& Queensberry) had other ideas. What a disastrous venture it all turned out to be for Wilde; all brought about by, basically, arrogance, & poor judgement.

 

[gashonthenail]

Yes, I knew they'd been at Trinity together, but Wilde was shipped off to Magdalen (interestingly pronounced Maudlin - as in Maudlin Street) after a short while, which was considered an inferior university at the time. Yes, the reputational damage being enough was interesting, and made me think that maybe some conscience pricking had taken place after all, possibly based on their previous time at Trinity, however tenuous their 'friendship' might have been. Unfortunately though, the establishment (& Queensberry) had other ideas. What a disastrous venture it all turned out to be for Wilde; all brought about by, basically, arrogance, & poor judgement.

The other interesting thing about Carson is how he set events in motion that resulted in outcomes he didn't intend. In the libel trial, he was able to make it clear that Wilde wasn't just posing as a sodomite, but probably was a sodomite. The trial collapsed and the charge of libel against Queensbury was dropped. But for Wilde, of course, he was then prosecuted by the Crown for gross indecency.
And in his opposition to Home Rule, this led to the partition of Ireland and the creation of the state of Northern Ireland - not something that Carson ever wanted. He, of course, wanted Ireland to remain in the United Kingdom. Both occasions were examples of doing a job far too well. The law of unintended consequences. There is some irony that the man who destroyed one of Ireland's greatest artists, also destroyed Ireland as a nation - although both unintentionally.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

The other interesting thing about Carson is how he set events in motion that resulted in outcomes he didn't intend. In the libel trial, he was able to make it clear that Wilde wasn't just posing as a sodomite, but probably was a sodomite. The trial collapsed and the charge of libel against Queensbury was dropped. But for Wilde, of course, he was then prosecuted by the Crown for gross indecency.
And in his opposition to Home Rule, this led to the partition of Ireland and the creation of the state of Northern Ireland - not something that Carson ever wanted. He, of course, wanted Ireland to remain in the United Kingdom. Both occasions were examples of doing a job far too well. The law of unintended consequences. There is some irony that the man who destroyed one of Ireland's greatest artists, also destroyed Ireland as a nation - although both unintentionally.

You're forgetting the 3rd unintended, or unforseen consequence; that which hit Queensberry. Son no.2 commits suicide, son no.1 hates his father, inferences of homosexuality being possibly hereditary laid at his door, & not forgetting the 4th unintended consequence on the government, prime minister, & establishment. Queensberry caused quite a stir all round, due to anger & stubbornness. Risk analysis clearly not a thing back then.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

There's an interesting parallel (which has probably been noted before) that both Wilde & Morrissey will likely be remembered most for 2 things:

Their art, & a court case.

Would Morrissey have wished it any other way?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

The Last Emperor (1987). Bertolucci's masterpiece. It contains several thematic strains usually found in Visconti: the arch decadence of a royal court in exile, the cruelty of a pampered noble, and traditionalists being hopelessly trampled on by progressives. I first saw this about thirty years ago; I liked it slightly more then. Knowing now that it shows Puyi in soft focus compared to what is known about him historically, I think it would've benefited from a thoroughly Viscontian treatment: it would linger more on his sadism, his sexuality, and the palace intrigue. This is more of a grand sweep of history treatment—"Oscar bait." Excellent for what it is, of course.

Standouts are Peter O'Toole as the Scottish tutor who manages to civilize a teenager who's been raised believing he's the infallible Son of Heaven; the grotesque pageantry of the dying Dowager Empress holding court; and a scene in which the eunuchs are ceremoniously expelled from the Forbidden City, carrying their testicles in fabric pouches, so that when they die they can expect to be "buried as whole men." Also the use of flashbacks to frame the story: Puyi recounts his life from a PRC re-education camp, where he is taught the proper way to urinate into a bucket, made to do morning Tai Chi routines with the other prisoners, and his captors are not only unimpressed by his royalty, but resentful of it. Now the roles are reversed: mediocrities with a fundamentalist fervor for communism have been made the wardens and bureaucrats, and are able to enforce their own brand of cruelty on the man who as a boy ordered a teacher to swallow ink: "Go on, Bigfooot, drink all the green ink."

The denouement is perfect. Broken by prison and age, he makes his living as a gardener. He's just another old man on a bicycle on the streets of Peking, faceless in a swarm. But Maoism is in full flower, and the fundamentalist zeal is now with the youth. A troupe of girls in Mao suits does a dance and sings a propaganda song, while the young men are busy parading political prisoners in the streets—beating and prodding them, forcing them to wear dunce caps and placards. One of these unfortunates is Puyi's former warden, a victim of zealots who are more zealous than he. Political movements obsessed with ideological purity always end up eating their own. Watching this movie, I thought about the monarchist fringe in our own day, still waiting for the French throne to be restored, hoping some spoiled rich kid on a Mediterranean yacht will one day ascend. There is a pathetic romance to that sort of thing. Like the prisoners who risked a beating just to rush up to Puyi and prostrate themselves at his feet. These may be loonies, but I wonder if their preferred paradigm is any worse than our own present variety of failed & corrupt political systems.

 

[gordyboy9]

this is all very serious.does porn films count.
star whores.
inspect her gadget.
shaving private ryan.
in diana jones.
ally mc squeal.
mobys dick.
the porn identitiy.
disclaimer--i have never seen any of these films as im a good catholic boy.{cough cough}
right you can get back to your serious films.
watch south korean cinema,best in the world.