Suede's live return
- Thread starter King Leer
- Start date
murder and desire
Junior Member
I used to love Suede, went to see them at the camden underworld and onwards.
This comeback is awful though, it reeks of the smash and grab.
Not only are they playing the O2, a most unSuede like setting, but they have also released a greatest hits with out even an extra track.
They could have at least gone down the remastered LP rout and added some demos.
In short they have become the first 90s nostalgia band, at least blur (whom I don't like apart from a few songs), released a new song and will work together again and one felt they did it for the correct reasons (Albarn does not need the cash).
King Leer
Leering since '97
Fair points all -- I was simply referring to Brett's energy and the band's playing. Moz at 43 seemed a fair bit older than that (though he was working the elder statesman/Sinatra thing).
Has Suede definitely ruled out any new recordings?
Maybe they could be commissioned to do something for a film. I really liked the song "Simon" (never managed to see the film it was written for, though).
Blur's new song had a very nice Graham riff but the whole thing was knocked out in a single afternoon and it felt that way.
Has Suede definitely ruled out any new recordings?
Maybe they could be commissioned to do something for a film. I really liked the song "Simon" (never managed to see the film it was written for, though).
Blur's new song had a very nice Graham riff but the whole thing was knocked out in a single afternoon and it felt that way.
murder and desire
Junior Member
Yeah, I know I wasn't attacking you more Suede. The thing is if Moz would have went about things in way the Brett has people would be going mental on here.
It seems there is one rule for everyone else and another for Morrissey.
Brett's solo stuff is OK but his LPs seem like two songs played over and over.
Plus his, live shows were quite limited. To me he came over not like a pop star but a hip music teacher- to be faire he had just lost his father.
I hear he is going to make a rock record next year.
I wish them well and I still listen to their stuff and The Tears, I just wish they hadn't held the gig at the O2. Bretts reasons for doing so are very dodgy and don't hold water.
Considering Massive bands still play Brixton and The Roundhouse
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nightingale+therose
...brush me daddy-o
I saw Suede live a few times
and saw Brett solo at a couple of more intimate venues... I think to be fair, with the O2 performance, they're trying to satisfy many people with as few gigs as possible.. I can't afford to go to London, so i wish they'd come back up to Glasgow
I'd love to hear them live again... from what i've seen, they've lost little of the energy of the old Suede.
murder and desire
Junior Member
I saw Suede live a few times
I can't afford to go to London, so i wish they'd come back up to Glasgow
Yeah, they have always been an underrated live act.
They could have done two nights at the roundhouse or Brixton. I think people would have felt better about the whole thing.
I wouldn't want to see anyone at the O2 not even Moz
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DianaDors
Guest
'Twas ever thus, Murder and Desire, but would we want it any other way?
As for people complaining about the Suede reunion, this just baffles me: so the reasons are wrong, the venues are wrong, and the Greatest Hits CD is wrong too, yes?
Let's address those points:
The reason - having played together for the TCT at the Royal Albert Hall (one of the greatest gigs I've ever seen), they want to play together some more; why does there need to be a bigger, deeper reason than the simple enjoyment of playing their own music together??
The venues - Suede always aspired to be an arena band first time round (I know this for a fact, having heard it directly from a band member), so begrudging them the O2 this time round seems particularly mean-spirited;
The Greatest Hits CD - this will undoubtedly have been the record company's call (as has been discussed elsewhere on this Forum in reference to Morrissey) and usually augurs well for new material and/or more thorough re-releases/remasters. A Greatest Hits collection will be the financial trade-off for the perceived risk of new material. Again, complaining about this and blaming Suede is ridiculous. Record companies and bands are in the business of making money as well as making music, so let's pause and think in more pragmatic terms before we start sneering.
Bring on Pulp...!
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murder and desire
Junior Member
'Twas ever thus, Murder and Desire, but would we want it any other way?
As for people complaining about the Suede reunion, this just baffles me: so the reasons are wrong, the venues are wrong, and the Greatest Hits CD is wrong too, yes?
Let's address those points:
The reason - having played together for the TCT at the Royal Albert Hall (one of the greatest gigs I've ever seen), they want to play together some more; why does there need to be a bigger, deeper reason than the simple enjoyment of playing their own music together??
The venues - Suede always aspired to be an arena band first time round (I know this for a fact, having heard it directly from a band member), so begrudging them the O2 this time round seems particularly mean-spirited;
The Greatest Hits CD - this will undoubtedly have been the record company's call (as has been discussed elsewhere on this Forum in reference to Morrissey) and usually augurs well for new material and/or more thorough re-releases/remasters. A Greatest Hits collection will be the financial trade-off for the perceived risk of new material. Again, complaining about this and blaming Suede is ridiculous. Record companies and bands are in the business of making money as well as making music, so let's pause and think in more pragmatic terms before we start sneering.
Bring on Pulp...!
Well you have your wish, Pulp are touring- what a surprise.
I hear the RAH was a good gig, I wish I had went.
As for the O2 I don't know anyone who has a good word to say about it as a music venue.
If one can not see what is wrong with Suede, of all bands, playing there then I think you may not have quite grasped them the first time around- even if you have spoken to the band.
Yes they wanted success and what Oasis and Blur achieved but they wanted to get there the correct way- in a personal and artistic way ( being an artist is something Brett always bangs on about).
I find it amusing, that both Suede and Pulp (two bands that tried to be the next Smiths) have wasted no time in jumping in on the nostalgia racket.
Jarvis and to a lesser degree Brett said some bitchy things about Moz (though Brett took them back).
Both of their solo careers have been less than successful and they have had to run back to the arms of their former bands this reeks of "Please darling shine the light, just one more time" and the sound of money tills.
This of course is something that Morrissey and Weller (two more nobel creatures) have never resorted to and they could have made more money than Suede and pulp could count, even with help from their families.
Jarvis is OK but he for me he is a hypocrite, moaning about indie kids, yet he is the biggest indie kid going- some of the songs he wrote were very childish and he was 35 when he wrote them.
Trying to pretend he was an independent spirt even though he seemed to go to every social event going.
Saying he had never wanted to be part of brit pop in any way, yet on a show Albarn presented for BBC2, called introducing Brit Pop there pulp are.
Then there is Jarvis and the "rent an eccentric" way of his, when a person has to act in the way he does, it really does show they are trying too hard and aren't eccentric in the least.
I am aware I have again strayed off topic here, so let me walk back.
"they want to play together some more; why does there need to be a bigger, deeper reason than the simple enjoyment of playing their own music together??"
Because playing old songs just to rake some cash in is tacky- What are they the new Dollar?
I had no trouble with a greatest hits as such just the naff way it was done.
They must have demos, they could have added some on or a live disc- it wasn't that long ago that Suede Singles was released, is something for the long term fans too much to ask?
As for making money, do pop stars really want to make money?
Wow, throw my shoes, really? I never thought of that.
I like most people have no trouble at all with people making money, I just think there are other more interesting roads to travel to make the said dosh than the one Suede have now taken- it only takes a little imagination to make money and do something artistic and interesting- There really is nothing special about playing a big venue, especially when you can't even sell out- anyone can do that.
My point is one of a fan who just thinks "come on boys, you WERE better than that".
Maybe I am a kill joy but I just feel let down by Suede. Pulp have always been a bunch of chancers.
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DianaDors
Guest
Ok, so even though the band themselves always wanted to play arenas, you know best, do you...? The O2 is just as bad as MEN Arena, the NEC, NIA and any other anonymous aircraft hanger. An arena is an arena is an arena. And Suede always wanted to play them. So perhaps it's actually you who misunderstood (or failed to "grasp") Suede's intentions and aspirations first time round?
Leaving aside the arrant nonsense of the phrase "tried to be the next Smiths" (Suede were influenced by the Smiths, yes, just as much as they were by Bowie, Bolan, Brel, et al), the TCT gig at the Royal Albert Hall is one of the greatest gigs I've ever been to, surpassing even some Moz shows. Just because a band chooses to play together again, why assume it's a "nostalgia racket"? The RAH was no "nostalgia racket", it was unfinished business - if you had actually been there, you would have immediately recognised it as such. And as for "wasting no time", the original Pulp line-up will not have played played together for fifteen or sixteen years by the time of next summer's gigs - and have been approached to reform on numerous occasions throughout that time. And of course Suede never officially 'broke up' either - even at the end of the ICA gigs, Brett announced "there will be another Suede record...but not yet"
Ah, now we're getting to the real point, I suspect: anyone who ever dares criticise Moz must be criticised too! Are we in the playground still? And if we are back in the playground, then didn't Moz "start it" by having a go at Jarvis? Let's not forget that Moz can barely open his mouth without being bitchy about someone... (and I wouldn't have it any other way).
What an odd perception. Pulp and Suede wrote those songs and will always have an absolute and unassailable right to play them in whatever setting or context they choose, as does Morrissey with Smiths songs. And so long as fans still want to hear the music, why shouldn't they? The implication that bands should only ever play new material is ridiculous. What about Morrissey playing Girlfriend In A Coma or There Is A Light That Never Goes Out...?
Again, illogical nonsense. You are the only person who is saying that their *only* motive is financial - and you have no inside knowledge of the band at all, so you cannot speak with any authority: you are simply making crass, tabloid-style presumptions. Haven't you been reading the interviews where Brett talks about needing to "play together again to see whether we have any new material in us"...? The Royal Albert Hall was packed to the rafters to see Suede begin to address their unfinished business. Why shouldn't any band play its own back catalogue? Ah, because Murder and Desire understands higher truths about Music and Art... If an over-the-hill Suede were on a cruise ship playing dreadful travesties of not-very-good songs to a clicktrack backing, then your Dollar analogy might just be relevant. But they are not. And it isn't.
As I said before, blame record companies for the naffness. Greatest Hits collections customarily augur well for the release of new material and/or the kind of thorough reissues that you (and I) are clamouring for. But no record company will issue this material without having made some quick cash from a Greatest Hits compilation first. Hasn't this procedure been discussed endlessly on So-Low in relation to Morrissey's equally naff Greatest Hits collection(s)?
That's a definite possibility
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DAVIE
Guest
When did the Pulp ever try to be The Smiths? They couldn't in a million years, they sound jack shit like them!
Another thing....The Smiths is not The Smiths without Johnny Marr
And Suede is not Suede without Bernard Butler!
....And The Tears....Are shite
Another thing....The Smiths is not The Smiths without Johnny Marr
And Suede is not Suede without Bernard Butler!
....And The Tears....Are shite
murder and desire
Junior Member
"What an odd perception. Pulp and Suede wrote those songs and will always have an absolute and unassailable right to play them in whatever setting or context they choose, as does Morrissey with Smiths songs. And so long as fans still want to hear the music, why shouldn't they? The implication that bands should only ever play new material is ridiculous. What about Morrissey playing Girlfriend In A Coma or There Is A Light That Never Goes Out...?
Again, illogical nonsense. You are the only person who is saying that their *only* motive is financial - and you have no inside knowledge of the band at all, so you cannot speak with any authority: you are simply making crass, tabloid-style presumptions. Haven't you been reading the interviews where Brett talks about needing to "play together again to see whether we have any new material in us"...? The Royal Albert Hall was packed to the rafters to see Suede begin to address their unfinished business. Why shouldn't any band play its own back catalogue? Ah, because Murder and Desire understands higher truths about Music and Art... If an over-the-hill Suede were on a cruise ship playing dreadful travesties of not-very-good songs to a clicktrack backing, then your Dollar analogy might just be relevant. But they are not. And it isn't.
As I said before, blame record companies for the naffness. Greatest Hits collections customarily augur well for the release of new material and/or the kind of thorough reissues that you (and I) are clamouring for. But no record company will issue this material without having made some quick cash from a Greatest Hits compilation first. Hasn't this procedure been discussed endlessly on So-Low in relation to Morrissey's equally naff Greatest Hits collection(s)?
That's a definite possibility
Well the only hint of an attack (concerning you) was the term "grasp", beyond that I wasn't attacking you dear.
Yet you couldn't seem to string a sentence together with out an attack on me- never mind.
I wasn't saying I knew better than the band, as I said (but you chose to ignore), Suede were always quite obvious and honest about the fact they wanted to be huge and didn't want to be on the indie tread mill.
My point was they wanted to achieve it in a certain way, the way they have now chosen is tacky and as I say reeks of the smash and grab- the fact they are playing a venue they can't even sell out is even more embarrassing for them (how long have the tickets been on sale now?)
Yes Morrissey and others play big venues but they have a huge audience so they have to play them from time to time- it's either that or a residency or a big tour.
One gets the impression Brett is playing it for the cash and the fact they can play a big venue (ego), considering he has spent the last few years selling hardly any records and playing tiny venues it's no wonder he needs an ego boost.
When I said Suede and Pulp were trying to be the next Smiths, I should have said "They were held up as the next Smiths". Truth be told Suede did want to be the Smiths for their generation (nothing wrong with that), Brett and Bernard were mentioning as much quite a lot in early interviews- Brett being the bright boy he was did try and distance himself from the Morrissey/Smiths tag, this is as it should be.
As for Pulp they may not sound like the Smiths, but after years of being a sub Fall band making catty remarks about Morrissey- Jarvis most certainly did start the bitchy comments, he was doing this throughout the 80s and into the mid 90s (he has admitted he suffered from "Morrissey Jealousy")- he saw that there was a gap in the market, the gap being Morrissey wouldn't speak to the music press and the Smiths were no more, so then suddenly Pulp started making music that was like a disco Smiths- surly you can see he stole quite a lot from Morrissey?
Anyway in art as in life nothing comes from nothing, there is nothing wrong with being influenced by someone (just be honest).
My general point was that Brett and Jarvis bitched about Morrissey (especially jarvis) yet they have failed to come close to what he has achieved, Jarvis has faired better than Brett but it's no great shakes- Jarvis has made some quite, quite embarrassing solo stuff and has had to turn to radio among other things for money.
To say I have my miss givings about Jarvis and the present day Brett is because they have bitched about Morrissey is pathetic- it really is.
Though, I expect nothing less as you have highlighted some quotes then rather than address or try and understand the general point being made you have taken the b road to elsewhere.
I said (again you ignored) "My point is one of a fan who just thinks "come on boys, you WERE better than that"
If you think I am the only soul in the land who sees this as a money making lark for Suede then you are surly mistaken and you should free yourself from the blinkers of fandom, I don't think I am the lone voice by any means.
I have read a few interviews with Brett and he comes across like he is "gilding the lilly" somewhat,
He is not convincing at all, he seems like someone has fallen out of love with the pop song but is happy to milk it ( I maybe being a little harsh here).
"play together again to see whether we have any new material in us",
Funny Brett said this as he has also said he has no plans to make another Suede record as yet. In fact he is working on a solo LP or was.
If they wanted to play together then they could have played the RAH decided "oh I like this" made an LP or gone off to do a real tour.
Rather than moping up a bit of cash in a few cities.
" you have no inside knowledge of the band at all, so you cannot speak with any authority: you are simply making crass, tabloid-style presumptions"
Why are you getting so angry?
Yet you have said "I know this for a fact, having heard it directly from a band member".
Does speaking to one band member once give you insider knowledge, does it really? Of course it doesn't, get a grip.
All it means is you once had a conversation with a band member it hardly means you can speak with "authority" or that you have any real communication with the band.
But using your (lack) of wisdom people may as well not bother with forums at all,
as most people have never meet the pop star/band they talk about.
I say one doesn't always have to know a person to work out their motivation or to have an understanding of events.
The funny thing is you don't know anything about me dear and you have miss read me all the way through, you seem to be the one making "crass presumptions".
As it goes I do know someone who is in Suedes inner circle, This means nothing to me though. People lie, ,miss read things and say that which will make their actions seem more worthy- especially in the pop racket.
"Bowie, Bolan, Brel, et al"
Yes Suede have many influences who said they didn't?
But Brett was mainly influenced by Bowie, Morrissey and Prince- alas Brett as good as he was wasn't fit to clean the shoes of any of these.
"The Royal Albert Hall was packed to the rafters to see Suede begin to address their unfinished business"
Bravo, how dramatic.
As I said I would have liked to have been there it seemed like a good gig, alas I couldn't go- though there were a number tickets on ebay going for £20- quite amusing as the RRP was £70.
I am happy you enjoyed the gig and I am happy the gig meant a lot to you.
But just because you went and I didn't it doesn't mean a thing.
I could be quite childish here and indeed I am going to be-
I saw them before they had a a single out, did you?
I saw them at the famous (in the fan world) early 100 club gig when they were delivering poetry and fire did you? I saw Richard's first ever performance with the band did you?
I saw Neil's first ever performance with the band, did you?
I was at the gig filmed for the Love and Poison video, were you?
I went to at least one gig on every tour until their awful last LP- when I decided they had lost it.
I also got chatted up by their manager and invited to the after show once, being shy and not in that gang I declined.
I hope with all my heart Suede do make another LP as they were something special for a while.
And I would like to see them play a mixture of new songs that go hand in hand with the classics.
This would really be a true victory and would really be dealing with unfinished business as it would show they were and still are a band with power and something to say.
Regarding the Greatest Hits, Brett and Butler have had been involved with this project from the start so they could have added an extra track or what ever if they wanted to.
"The implication that bands should only ever play new material is ridiculous. What about Morrissey playing Girlfriend In A Coma or There Is A Light That Never Goes Out...?"
You may have inferred this but I didn't mean to imply it and I don't think I did.
There is nothing wrong with playing old hits but coming back after being a being away for a while and only playing hits is a bit sad and it says " we were good"
not that "we are still good".
Any fool can see there is a whirling ocean of difference between Morrissey playing the old songs and what Suede are doing.
Remember Morrissey didn't play any Smiths songs at all for around a decade and when he did he had (I think) new songs that were as good, side by side with them.
But then Morrissey and Weller, who did the same sort of thing as Moz, are more nobel creatures, who really did make an impact on music unlike Suede and Pulp (who have been going for 30 something years and only managed 3 good Lps)
Have fun at the o2
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DAVIE
Guest
^^^ A very big Suede fan
did they play any earlier songs? have you got any recordings or pictures?
murder and desire
Junior Member
Songs like Wonderful sometimes and Art?
No, they didn't play these- shame, as I quite like them they sounded rather like Raymonde on these songs, I thought.
In fact I always thought Suede were more like Raymonde than the Smiths.
I have no pictures no, this is pre camera phone days and I didn't carry a Camera to the gig- sorry.
When I say I saw them before the Drowners was out I don't mean, years before.
it was only about five months or slightly longer.
The band were playing 40 minute sets and all the band members from the first 2 lps were in place .
One of the gigs was at the Camden underworld and another one was somewhere else in Camden.
It was about £4.50 for the ticket at the underworld.
I also joined their fan club, Suede were very good with their fans, as well as news letters and the like Suede would also play Fan club gigs- these were lovely events
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DAVIE
Guest
Because we're young....Because we're young
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