"Suedehead" (Original Instrumental) posted by RetroMusicWorld / YouTube (March 13, 2022)



Interesting.
🤔

Update:
Video made private - March 16, 2022.
Video made public again - March 26, 2022.



Comment posted by Gurglejerk:

Just a note: this track is not a true instrumental from the masters. This is an AI-generated track, using computer AI track separation to remove the vocals. It's good one, and shows how much AI track separation is improving. That YT channel also has a bunch of similar tracks as well as Everyday is Like Sunday (which isn't quite as well done).

If you want to experiment for yourself, try lalal.ai or moises.ai.

 
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Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
It's really too bad Morrissey wouldn't pay Vini what he asked for. It was a mere pittance compared to the artistry he brought to the music. Same story as Stephen Street.
Barely. Watch the promo again: Joyce, Rourke and Gannon get plenty of clear full-face shots, but Street is limited to a couple of shots on the edge of frame where he has his back to the camera, some close-ups of his hands at the keyboard, and a single 'blink and you'll miss it' shot of the camera flying over his head where his face is only half visible. Whoever shot/edited the video has clearly been instructed to keep his appearance at a minimum.

Not sure whether there were some politics going on, and Moz didn't want Street to get too big for his boots? It could have just been that Morrissey just felt his face 'didn't fit'. He's been known to be this petty before - the only reason Andrew Paresi (a phenominal drummer) didn't get to play live was because Morrissey didn't like his appearance, and I've heard stories of other potential musicians who didn't get to play a note when they turned up for auditions, purely because Moz didn't like the look of them.

Is that so? Yes we’ve all have heard Tony Wilson’s story, and we’ve all heard so many second hand stories, that are taken as gospel. Whatever.
 
M

Mr Anonymous

Guest
Barely. Watch the promo again: Joyce, Rourke and Gannon get plenty of clear full-face shots, but Street is limited to a couple of shots on the edge of frame where he has his back to the camera, some close-ups of his hands at the keyboard, and a single 'blink and you'll miss it' shot of the camera flying over his head where his face is only half visible. Whoever shot/edited the video has clearly been instructed to keep his appearance at a minimum.

Not sure whether there were some politics going on, and Moz didn't want Street to get too big for his boots? It could have just been that Morrissey just felt his face 'didn't fit'. He's been known to be this petty before - the only reason Andrew Paresi (a phenominal drummer) didn't get to play live was because Morrissey didn't like his appearance, and I've heard stories of other potential musicians who didn't get to play a note when they turned up for auditions, purely because Moz didn't like the look of them.
That is an interesting point about the video; I hadn't noticed that before. It is a little puzzling to me. Stephen Street isn't a bad looking guy by any means.
 

Gurglejerk

New Member
Just a note: this track is not a true instrumental from the masters. This is an AI-generated track, using computer AI track separation to remove the vocals. It's good one, and shows how much AI track separation is improving. That YT channel also has a bunch of similar tracks as well as Everyday is Like Sunday (which isn't quite as well done).

If you want to experiment for yourself, try lalal.ai or moises.ai.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Is that so? Yes we’ve all have heard Tony Wilson’s story, and we’ve all heard so many second hand stories, that are taken as gospel. Whatever.

Why would Tony Wilson lie about Vini not getting paid what he asked for? He was managing Vini at the time. Why else did he not appear on any other Morrissey albums? We know Moz is notoriously tight with money and values it over relationships or music.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Is that so? Yes we’ve all have heard Tony Wilson’s story, and we’ve all heard so many second hand stories, that are taken as gospel. Whatever.
I'm not too sure about which Tony Wilson story you are referring, but I have been told directly by long-term band members that Morrissey has nixed people based on appearance alone. One time one of the regulars was ill, so in an attempt to save an under-threat show they flew in a replacement musician from another country. When he arrived Morrissey didn't like the way he looked, so he was sent home without playing a note and the gig cancelled instead. Similar incidents have - allegedly - happened with crew members - cause they had the wrong haircut, or their face 'didn't fit'.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
I'm not too sure about which Tony Wilson story you are referring, but I have been told directly by long-term band members that Morrissey has nixed people based on appearance alone. One time one of the regulars was ill, so in an attempt to save an under-threat show they flew in a replacement musician from another country. When he arrived Morrissey didn't like the way he looked, so he was sent home without playing a note and the gig cancelled instead. Similar incidents have - allegedly - happened with crew members - cause they had the wrong haircut, or their face 'didn't fit'.

I’ve heard them too. Stories aside. You make it out as if it was wrong of him to do.

In regards to flying a replacement musician in, one would think if looks were important, then Morrissey would have asked for a photo first. Maybe Morrissey was looking for a reason to cancel the show.

Why would Tony Wilson lie about Vini not getting paid what he asked for? He was managing Vini at the time. Why else did he not appear on any other Morrissey albums? We know Moz is notoriously tight with money and values it over relationships or music.

I didn’t say anyone lied. But to come to a fair conclusion and judgment of a person, I think one should have both sides of the story.
 
J

Juan Dulces

Guest
Vini did have issues with strokes, but in recent years he was working on a new recording (even though he's playing much more slowly nowadays). Plus, within the last year or two I've found some pics online of him 'in town' posing with people.


It would be nice to hear a 'final' album from him, playing in his new style.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
Why would Tony Wilson lie about Vini not getting paid what he asked for? He was managing Vini at the time. Why else did he not appear on any other Morrissey albums? We know Moz is notoriously tight with money and values it over relationships or music.
In the documentary I posted somewhere around here which most people have probably watched, so this may not be news - Vini Reilly was in it, he never said he was not paid what he was supposed to be, to my recollection. He also said Morrissey did want to work with him more but Vini had gotten bored and wanted to changed up the style a bit and Moz did not, and he said Moz asked if he was sure because he (Vini) would be making a lot of money from this, I think he said around 1 mil.
 

Ms NOW I Understand

Don't explain your philosophy, embody it
In the documentary I posted somewhere around here which most people have probably watched, so this may not be news - Vini Reilly was in it, he never said he was not paid what he was supposed to be, to my recollection. He also said Morrissey did want to work with him more but Vini had gotten bored and wanted to changed up the style a bit and Moz did not, and he said Moz asked if he was sure because he (Vini) would be making a lot of money from this, I think he said around 1 mil.
And may I ask why and/or how Tony Wilson is some g damn Morrissey authority!?$*#
I've only watched 25 minutes so far of that Morrissey documentary you'd helpfully posted, & T. Wilson made some definitive character statements regarding Morrissey's impossibly difficult personality...& how the overworked :guitar: and his:raisinghand:! could not withstand M's :whip::drama::sweara minute more! It was as if Mr. Wilson was present in the recording sessions and witnessed this dynamic between M and JM with his own👀... 🙄 Sheesh! I guess people are always gonna have the kind of theories which serve their own egos or reputation..and truth isn't really a concern. Nothing can be done about the lies people say. Except knowing the integrity and the motivation behind strong pronouncements~ of any kind~ BEFORE you believe it. Consider the source always!:wink:
 

Ms NOW I Understand

Don't explain your philosophy, embody it
@Redacted... Okay. Just finished the Morrissey Solo Years documentary. Pretty good. Just learned poor Tony Wilson died only a few years after participating in that documentary...now I feel bad about my sass earlier😕...plus he had some positive stuff to say about Morrissey as a writer...but still..."Stephen was very difficult!" 😐 a bit reduction-y...
⭐Craig Gannon was kinda sweet- seemed like a decent dude. Too bad that darn court case interfered. My least favorite detail regarding M's story of not wanting to share Smiths' earnings with his former band members. People are weird with 💵!
🟡Stephen Street also registered as an honest guy. But that's some weird, confusing stuff with Vini Reilly claiming he actually wrote all of the music on Viva Hate?! Ya gotta wonder where the truth lies?? If I'm judging on whose character comes across shadier...Vini doesn't seem as trustworthy as Stephen➡️ who went on to be a successful producer...while Vini's talent would most likely have found a place somewhere to showcase his obvious talent if that boast was true?!?

~Plus when he said he turned down M's request to collaborate on the 2nd album because he was "too bored" by three- cord:guitar: pop rock...& then later on said...that even though M is as talented as he is~he really needs to do something "unique"- cuz he's still trapped in the 80's...🤣...did not add to Vini's likeability or credibility.

🟨NME stuff...👎 That's a bummer! Happens probably more often than we realize. Gross. It's a business first~ and marketing and image can be created or destroyed equally by dishonest journalism designed to persuade consumers. 😵‍💫

⭐There were some sound perspectives in that documentary. Not too lopsided with adoration or defamation. Good balance! I walked away feeling more aware that talent, fame, and a driving force to express yourself on the public stage of life~ seems a bit freakish for those who have artistic gifts combined with the strange inner confidence of following their passionate destiny of realizing fame & experiencing the feeling of being regarded as a cultural/artistic hero! An immense blessing, yes, to be treated reverently by vast amounts of the anonymous members of society...but it also must feel so alien to guardedly live out such a famous destiny on earth.
Consequently, M seems like an emotionally intense, awkward, skittish, brave, lonely, intelligent, uniquely truthful, and exquisite creature! An extraordinary soul of a human being ~not quite meant for this world... born for a bigger, symbolic purpose. To show us the possibility of our greatness and our sorrow in equal parts. Embodied poetically within his gifts to powerfully and emotively express his lyrics, voice and courage; as well as his lifelong experience of emotionally challenging relationships and psychic struggle towards maintaining a general contented approach to daily, ordinary life.

All these deep reflections go beyond Morrissey. But he IS an interesting living icon that can inspire and instruct us about how we all want to live our own, authentic lives; meaningfully, peacefully, with kindness, and unique expression...casually, nonchalantly, every day we have breath in our bodies. That's the goal. To reveal the best soul within us in ordinary, small ways.

Goodness this is way overly expressed! Thanks for reading these thoughts....
 
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C

Clarky Cat

Guest
Street has never been complimentary about 'The lads" either, he doesnt give Alain any credit for Your Arsenal whatsoever, he puts it all down to Ronson, a bit rich , considering how irked he was by Vini claiming some credit for Viva Hate
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
@ Redacted Okay. Just finished the Morrissey Solo Years documentary. Pretty good. Just learned poor Tony Wilson died only a few years after participating in that documentary...now I feel bad about my sass earlier😕...plus he had some positive stuff to say about Morrissey as a writer...but still..."Stephen was very difficult!" 😐 a bit reduction-y...
⭐Craig Gannon was kinda sweet- seemed like a decent dude. Too bad that darn court case interfered. My least favorite detail regarding M's story of not wanting to share Smiths' earnings with his former band members. People are weird with 💵!
🟡Stephen Street also registered as an honest guy. But that's some weird, confusing stuff with Vini Reilly claiming he actually wrote all of the music on Viva Hate?! Ya gotta wonder where the truth lies?? If I'm judging on whose character comes across shadier...Vini doesn't seem as trustworthy as Stephen➡️ who went on to be a successful producer...while Vini's talent would most likely have found a place somewhere to showcase his obvious talent if that boast was true?!?

~Plus when he said he turned down M's request to collaborate on the 2nd album because he was "too bored" by three- cord:guitar: pop rock...& then later on said...that even though M is as talented as he is~he really needs to do something "unique"- cuz he's still trapped in the 80's...🤣...did not add to Vini's likeability or credibility.

🟨NME stuff...👎 That's a bummer! Happens probably more often than we realize. Gross. It's a business first~ and marketing and image can be created or destroyed equally by dishonest journalism designed to persuade consumers. 😵‍💫

⭐There were some sound perspectives in that documentary. Not too lopsided with adoration or defamation. Good balance! I walked away feeling more aware that talent, fame, and a driving force to express yourself on the public stage of life~ seems a bit freakish for those who have artistic gifts combined with the strange inner confidence of following their passionate destiny of realizing fame & experiencing the feeling of being regarded as a cultural/artistic hero! An immense blessing, yes, to be treated reverently by vast amounts of the anonymous members of society...but it also must feel so alien to guardedly live out such a famous destiny on earth.
Consequently, M seems like an emotionally intense, awkward, skittish, brave, lonely, intelligent, uniquely truthful, and exquisite creature! An extraordinary soul of a human being ~not quite meant for this world... born for a bigger, symbolic purpose. To show us the possibility of our greatness and our sorrow in equal parts. Embodied poetically within his gifts to powerfully and emotively express his lyrics, voice and courage; as well as his lifelong experience of emotionally challenging relationships and psychic struggle towards maintaining a general contented approach to daily, ordinary life.

All these deep reflections go beyond Morrissey. But he IS an interesting living icon that can inspire and instruct us about how we all want to live our own, authentic lives; meaningfully, peacefully, with kindness, and unique expression...casually, nonchalantly, every day we have breath in our bodies. That's the goal. To reveal the best soul within us in ordinary, small ways.

Goodness this is way overly expressed! Thanks for reading these thoughts....
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I thought it was good insight coming straight from the people who were there. Vini Reilly later recanted and apologized about Stephen Street.
Tony Wilson was a character and a bit of a f*** up. I think you would have to get into the Joy Division/New Order side of things to really understand him. He is a terrible business man and lost a lot of New Order's money trying to keep The Hacienda and Factory records going, one would get the impression he thought he was king of the Manchester scene or invented it or something.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
And may I ask why and/or how Tony Wilson is some g damn Morrissey authority!?$*#
I've only watched 25 minutes so far of that Morrissey documentary you'd helpfully posted, & T. Wilson made some definitive character statements regarding Morrissey's impossibly difficult personality...& how the overworked :guitar: and his:raisinghand:! could not withstand M's :whip::drama::sweara minute more! It was as if Mr. Wilson was present in the recording sessions and witnessed this dynamic between M and JM with his own👀... 🙄 Sheesh! I guess people are always gonna have the kind of theories which serve their own egos or reputation..and truth isn't really a concern. Nothing can be done about the lies people say. Except knowing the integrity and the motivation behind strong pronouncements~ of any kind~ BEFORE you believe it. Consider the source always!:wink:
Honestly, I think he feels like an idiot for not signing the Smiths. But Johnny said later they never wanted to be signed to Factory even tho he signed to Factory for Electronic. Tony Wilson really seemed to dislike Morrissey, he has said some terrible things about him.
 

telegram-sam

New Member
I have really had to think about what you said here, because it's so interesting (and some Jung too!).
I think you nailed the essence of Morrissey and unfortunately people like him are easily misunderstood and sometimes taken advantage of. I think far too many people have tried to ride his coattails and still do and that is why he is so protective of himself and untrusting of others.

As we have talked about before, I heard a new Morrissey here, esp in Alsatsian Cousin. I bought Viva Hate and popped it in the cassette player and that blared out and I thought WOW what is this? It kind of sounds like Roxy Music in their New Romantic period (Avalon). It is very sexual, very atmospheric, and VERY different from the Smiths, much more sophisticated than Handsome Devil. I was about dying when he got to the part where he says "But on the desk is where I want you!" I don't know what the song is about, I don't care, what it's about in my head is just fine lol.

Taking everything in it's totality and right up to present day and the now infamous letter, I think Marr was the least impressive collaborator. Morrissey started working with actual adults and professionals and it brought out this whole other confident side of him that I enjoyed a lot and still do. Tho Steven Street had been there for Strangeways and before and now for this new solo album (which I believe was a contractual obligation Marr walked out on, it was supposed to be a Smiths album and Morrissey being the consummate professional fufilled that obligation while Johnny played with The Pretenders, it's hilarious really. He wanted to be James Honeyman - Scott, and POOF he was. Actually, it's sad and typical Marr) I can only imagine how Marr felt when he just basically handed this smashing success to Morrissey, because Morrissey was pretty much forced to make this a solo album.

So Suedehead was really a nice preview of what was to come, it is an instantly catchy and instantly likeable song, very impressive for a first song with a new collaborator. Steven Street gets a lot of credit too, he just seems to have a very different temperment than Marr and says he would work with Morrissey again, he doesn't waste time throwing him under the bus and rolling it over him again and again.

I saw both the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours which I think were his first US tours and it was just amazing, he was amazing, it was magical. Loved every second.
Marr was the least impressive collaborator? That goes to show how little you know.
 
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Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
Marr was the least impressive collaborator? Which goes to show how little you know.
Thank you Mr. 12 Posts in 10 Years for coming out from under your rock to say that
 

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