Strange/unexpected Moz references?

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator

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GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
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Ketamine Sun

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Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Is it ‘Nante’ before ‘Monster ‘? Or am
I seeing that wrong?

Edit: Nantes is in France, the postcard is maybe French sent from France?



Do you know the backstory? What convention was he donating these signed items to?

Wonder what the postcard image was. Flowers ?
The postcard confuses as German/French, but yes, tinted flowers!?.
He indicates he is in the UK (Bury mentioned is about 9 miles from Manchester).
The Smiths conventions were held in Manchester and in looking through bits and bobs, I think Kewpie and I actually crossed paths in 1989 as we both attended said :)
I'd suspect this is exactly what he's referring to.
Here's some of the goodies from the first one in '88 which shows that type of item would go down well:

img_4056.jpg


No idea about the Nante bit.
Regards,
FWD.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Is it ‘Nante’ before ‘Monster ‘? Or am
I seeing that wrong?



Do you know the backstory? What convention was he donating these signed items to?

Wonder what the postcard image was. Flowers ?
Funny that you'd ask, because I was actually trying to locate the postcard image as well. It seems it was a series of vintage type motives (apparently printed in Duisburg, Germany and?) and the only one I was able to find from this series was "Picnic, MC11", which looks like this:

AK-Picnic-MC-11Tinted-Samples-of-the-50ies.jpg

AK-Picnic-MC-11Tinted-Samples-of-the-50ies-_57.jpg


I suppose "Fleurs, MC5" was a ... flower motive?

The convention is probably the Smiths Convention that happened in 1988 - there was a rumour that Morrissey was at some point outside the Haçienda sitting in a white VW, and one of the organisers apparently lived in Bury.

img_4053.jpg



The word before "Monster" looks like "Nante"
to me.

I just thought it was an interesting way to sign a letter since he might have been collecting ideas for what eventually became November Spawned A Monster around that time (although he always had a tendency for signing letters or postcards with words like "Misery" or, like above, "Monotony".)
 
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Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Venlow was cited via accountant letters sold on Ebay as an old house name/address of his in Altrincham (missing a 'w' in this).
20 miles from Bury.
FWD.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Venlow was cited via accountant letters sold on Ebay as an old house name/address of his in Altrincham (missing a 'w' in this).
20 miles from Bury.
FWD.
Think "Venlo" might actually be correct (after the Dutch city perhaps?) as it pops up under this name multiple times linked to one Peter Rayner from the mid 90s on.

Recently mentioned here as well

 
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Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Think "Venlo" might actually be correct (after the Dutch city perhaps?) as it pops up under this name multiple times linked to one Peter Raynor from the mid 90s on.

Recently mentioned here as well

Indeed.
I believe the legal paper had a 'w', but it's all of a muchness.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
The postcard confuses as German/French, but yes, tinted flowers!?.
He indicates he is in the UK (Bury mentioned is about 9 miles from Manchester).
The Smiths conventions were held in Manchester and in looking through bits and bobs, I think Kewpie and I actually crossed paths in 1989 as we both attended said :)
I'd suspect this is exactly what he's referring to.
Here's some of the goodies from the first one in '88 which shows that type of item would go down well:

View attachment 67419

No idea about the Nante bit.
Regards,
FWD.

Very cool, thanks for that info.


Funny that you'd ask, because I was actually trying to locate the postcard image as well. It seems it was a series of vintage type motives (apparently printed in Duisburg, Germany and?) and the only one I was able to find from this series was "Picnic, MC11", which looks like this:

View attachment 67416
View attachment 67417

I suppose "Fleurs, MC5" was a ... flower motive?

The convention is probably the Smiths Convention that happened in 1988 - there was a rumour that Morrissey was at some point outside the Haçienda sitting in a white VW, and one of the organisers apparently lived in Bury.

View attachment 67418


The word before "Monster" looks like "Nante"
to me.

I just thought it was an interesting way to sign a letter since he must have written November Spawned A Monster around that time (although he always had a tendency for signing letters or postcards with words like "Misery" or, like above, "Monotony".)

Maybe ‘Fleurs MC5’ was his way of saying ‘kick out the flowers!’ ? :lbf: or not.

Yes Monster of course also made me think of November, and it was the right time. Then ‘Nante’ will remain a mystery, for now. Oh I later added
that Nantes is a city in Paris, so was trying to make that connection.

I wonder if while in Paris he picked up a copy of ‘Maldoror’ which supposedly had some influence on November.

From wiki...

“The song is quoting Les Chants de Maldoror (Chant 2, verse 7), in which a hermaphrodite perceives himself as a monster and dreams of love.”

Though I wonder if he ever read the book?


while I’m at it ....


‘I've gotta ask you one question
Do you think that you could make it with Frankenstein?’

- David Johansen


‘And if the lights were out
Could you even bear
To kiss her full on the mouth
(or anywhere?)’


Anyway, I swear I remember reading some music paper where he jokingly referred to November as his version of Frankenstein.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Snip...


Anyway, I swear I remember reading some music paper where he jokingly referred to November as his version of Frankenstein.
THE DEEP END - Nick Kent, The Face, March 1990 perhaps?

"Tell me about the other new songs.

"There's a song called 'Striptease With A Difference' which is about playing a game of cards wherein the loser of each game has to take off an item of clothing. And it's about secretly hoping one loses and in fact manipulating the game towards that end. Then there's 'November' (Spawned A Monster) which in a sense is my version of the New York Dolls' 'Frankenstein'. It's about a person who's confined to a wheelchair, who can't make much sense of her life and whose only ambition is to walk down the road in clothes she personally went out and chose and bought herself. And that is as far as her ambitions can stretch.""

 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Very cool, thanks for that info.




Maybe ‘Fleurs MC5’ was his way of saying ‘kick out the flowers!’ ? :lbf: or not.

Yes Monster of course also made me think of November, and it was the right time. Then ‘Nante’ will remain a mystery, for now. Oh I later added
that Nantes is a city in Paris, so was trying to make that connection.

I wonder if while in Paris he picked up a copy of ‘Maldoror’ which supposedly had some influence on November.

From wiki...

“The song is quoting Les Chants de Maldoror (Chant 2, verse 7), in which a hermaphrodite perceives himself as a monster and dreams of love.”

Though I wonder if he ever read the book?


while I’m at it ....


‘I've gotta ask you one question
Do you think that you could make it with Frankenstein?’

- David Johansen


‘And if the lights were out
Could you even bear
To kiss her full on the mouth
(or anywhere?)’


Anyway, I swear I remember reading some music paper where he jokingly referred to November as his version of Frankenstein.

Yep, The Face, March 1990:

"Then there's 'November' (Spawned A Monster) which in a sense is my version of the New York Dolls' 'Frankenstein'. It's about a person who's confined to a wheelchair, who can't make much sense of her life and whose only ambition is to walk down the road in clothes she personally went out and chose and bought herself."

Another possible influence is Lynch's Elephant Man, which made a lasting impression on him.

I somehow doubt "Nante" refers to the French city of Nantes, the card doesn't read as if he's on vacation. A mystery indeed.
 
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Ketamine Sun

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Yep, The Face March 1990:

"Then there's 'November' (Spawned A Monster) which in a sense is my version of the New York Dolls' 'Frankenstein'. It's about a person who's confined to a wheelchair, who can't make much sense of her life and whose only ambition is to walk down the road in clothes she personally went out and chose and bought herself."

Another possible influence is Lynch's Elephant Man, which made a lasting impression on him.

I somehow doubt "Nante" refers to the French city of Nantes, the card doesn't read as if he's on vacation. A mystery indeed.

One would have to be inhuman to not be moved by that film.

Makes me think of these clips, I’m sure someone has the whole play on film somewhere ..... :pray: along with ‘South With Morrissey’ wouldn’t mind seeing it.

 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
One would have to be inhuman to not be moved by that film.

Makes me think of these clips, I’m sure someone has the whole play on film somewhere ..... :pray: along with ‘South With Morrissey’ wouldn’t mind seeing it.

And this elegantly leads us back to the topic of strange/unexpected Moz references, cause I wouldn't mind seeing this:

Screenshot_20210110-024025_Twitter.jpg


Suppose it's Irvine... 2016. Let's hope they figure out a way to make this available online by some sort of miracle.
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
One would have to be inhuman to not be moved by that film.

Makes me think of these clips, I’m sure someone has the whole play on film somewhere ..... :pray: along with ‘South With Morrissey’ wouldn’t mind seeing it.






í never knew that Mark Chapman had front row tickets to "The Elephant Man" the night after he murdered Lennon. Or that Lennon & Yoko had front row tickets for that night too. Bowie was second on Chapman's 'list', and had apparently had his photograph taken with Bowie outside the theatre earlier in the run. He could have murdered either of them. Which explains why Bowie hid in Switzerland for 3 years as soon as his New York theatre run was up...

.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret




í never knew that Mark Chapman had front row tickets to "The Elephant Man" the night after he murdered Lennon. Or that Lennon & Yoko had front row tickets for that night too. Bowie was second on Chapman's 'list', and had apparently had his photograph taken with Bowie outside the theatre earlier in the run. He could have murdered either of them. Which explains why Bowie hid in Switzerland for 3 years as soon as his New York theatre run was up...

.

I didn't know that either. God, that must have been unnerving.
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
“The song is quoting Les Chants de Maldoror (Chant 2, verse 7), in which a hermaphrodite perceives himself as a monster and dreams of love.”

Though I wonder if he ever read the book?

He certainly did. The song is an adaptation of one of the chapters of the book... and a quite literal adaptation.
Very few words in the song are not repeating what the book says, mainly the month of "November" (November is not relevant in the book, nor the book was released during a November, nor the author was born in November)...

The only other difference is the end of the song, which is somehow more hopeful than the book (Oh, one fine day / Let it be soon / She won't be rich or beautiful / But she'll be walking your streets / In the clothes that she went out / And chose for herself).

The book finished the story with the author feeling sad about the Hermaphrodite and there isn't any hopeful wish for the future of the Hermaphrodite... but the song is certainly an adaptation... and that's a curiosity, because I don't remember any other song by Morrissey in which he adapted a story from a book or a film or anything (of course he likes quoting things here and there all the time, but quite literal adaptation of a story, I think November is the only one).
 
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