Strange/unexpected Moz references?

Horse called Frankly Mr Shankly running today (Thursday)
3.10 Chelmsford

f***ing won at 10-1 I knew I should have put some money on but of course gambling is a mug's game

 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
The resemblance to his Dad is uncanny...

View attachment 58679 View attachment 58680

And on into the Stretford Steve...

View attachment 58681

Nothing to declare but his genes.

.


There’s M’s dad posing with his few precious Elvis memorabilia items.

Wonder what his feelings were of his son that basically became a present day Elvis, I mean as far as fan adoration and his rise to fame?

Was it strange, was he proud?

Though, I guess it was a little strange
from the point of view of his mom and sister when it was all beginning.
I’m sure they were/are happy for his success. Then again, in their eyes and heart, he’s always the son, the brother, Steven.


Any thoughts?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
There’s M’s dad posing with his few precious Elvis memorabilia items.

Wonder what his feelings were of his son that basically became a present day Elvis, I mean as far as fan adoration and his rise to fame?

Was it strange, was he proud?

Though, I guess it was a little strange
from the point of view of his mom and sister when it was all beginning.
I’m sure they were/are happy for his success. Then again, in their eyes and heart, he’s always the son, the brother, Steven.


Any thoughts?

In the autobiography Moz said his Dad said (of the November video) that Shirley Bassey would be jealous (EDIT: Furious! See Mozmar's post 👇). And his Dad said he once shook hands with him like he was meeting a stranger. So I'm guessing, it's strained.

My wee career involves media & my parents ignore it, my sister commiserates that it's so bad & my brother is really proud & records everything I'm involved in.
 
Last edited:

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
In the autobiography Moz said his Dad said (of the November video) that Shirley Bassey would be jealous. And his Dad said he once shook hands with him like he was meeting a stranger. So I'm guessing, it's strained.

My wee career involves media & my parents ignore it, my sister commiserates that it's so bad & my brother is really proud & records everything I'm involved in.
No, not quite:

"Tim had asked me to do the entire November spawned a monster video naked. I explained to him that this would be impossible since my entire lower body had been destroyed by fire in 1965. His expression remained wide-eyed with belief as he replied, ‘Oh.’ After watching the video, my father commented, ‘Shirley Bassey will be furious,’ which left me momentarily puzzled."
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
No, not quite:

"Tim had asked me to do the entire November spawned a monster video naked. I explained to him that this would be impossible since my entire lower body had been destroyed by fire in 1965. His expression remained wide-eyed with belief as he replied, ‘Oh.’ After watching the video, my father commented, ‘Shirley Bassey will be furious,’ which left me momentarily puzzled."

Ach. Damn memory.
 
A

Anony

Guest
Just had a look at that thread. Incredible how everyone is desperate to assert that they STILL love The Smiths despite Morrissey having been a part of them. I guess they really were the greatest band ever, not even Morrissey has the power to taint them in their eyes... 🙄

The Smiths were all about compassion, empathy, broadmindedness, tolerance, sensitivity and intelligence.
(Modern day) Morrissey is all about the promotion of bigoted right-wing politics, borderline racism, unbelievable dishonesty (Der Spiegel), and near-constant twattishness.
It's not hard to see how one could absolutely love (and relate to) the former but hate/completely distance oneself from the latter.

The only caveat needed in these discussions is the use of the phrase 'modern day' Morrissey when talking of his ghastly persona.
His aesthetic in the 1980s absolutely defined The Smiths. You can't have hated the way he used to be, and claim to love The Smiths.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
There’s M’s dad posing with his few precious Elvis memorabilia items.

Wonder what his feelings were of his son that basically became a present day Elvis, I mean as far as fan adoration and his rise to fame?

Was it strange, was he proud?

Though, I guess it was a little strange
from the point of view of his mom and sister when it was all beginning.
I’m sure they were/are happy for his success. Then again, in their eyes and heart, he’s always the son, the brother, Steven.


Any thoughts?

He was never keen on talking about his father. Makes me think of this moment documented in the Les Inrocks interview from 1995:

"Q: Do your parents feel responsible for your constant state of sadness?
M: It pains my mother a lot. Not that she feels responsible but she's perfectly aware of my state of dissatisfaction. She'd love so much to see me happy and totally fulfilled. Yet, nothing is her fault.
Q: What about your father?
M: ...(He pulls a wry face, keeps silent and makes a wide gesture of the hand as a signal of defense. Then points to the microphone on the table, shaking his head, unable to speak. It follows an endless silence.)"

What's quite interesting is that whenever Peter is mentioned in Autobiography, it's either about sports and something bad happening to young Morrissey (watching his father swin before being pushed into the pool, almost drowning; Peter taking him to Old Trafford, where Morrissey collapses in the heat) or his father being disappointed in him ("In the play On Dartmoor I am Ulrick, a sulky child with a stupid voice. Unseen, I persistently shout down from an imaginary bedroom. The audience laugh, but my father does not. ‘You were very embarrassing,’ he tells me, as I appear all-smiles, and my air-balloon collides. Two years on, at Stretford Stadium I represent the school in the 400 meters dash (of sorts), legs muddied, face wet with rain, I clamber in at fourth place. My father is standing by the finishing-line. As I approach him he says, ‘You didn’t win,’ and he looks away, and life decomposes in a bucket. Perhaps I didn’t win but it didn’t help anyone to point it out.") or annoyed ("In 1972 I had played All the young dudes by Mott the Hoople to my father, and as it spun innocently before us on orange CBS, he stands to leave. ‘Ooh no, I’m not having that,’ were his words as he vanished in disgust. What exactly he wasn’t having I still do not know.") before Peter disappears almost completely from the narrative after moving out of the family home.

I don't know if it's what he had intended but I always imagine the lyrics of Dial-A-Cliché to be about his relationship with his father. I suppose it was never an easy one but Peter must have been proud nonetheless. He came to see him with The Smiths and also later on in his career. And like you said, he probably doesn't see him as "present day Elvis" but as his son Steven, who in the end managed to turn his quirks into his trademark and make a career out of it (oversimplification, I know).

I wonder if they had a fight over Peter speaking to Johnny Rogan for The Severed Alliance though.
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
Ach. Damn memory.

Quite.
And í still maintain that Morrissey's damn memory was playing up in "Autobiography". It seems more likely that his father was being shown the "Hulmerist" compilation which ends with "November Spawned A Monster" segueing quite wonderfully into the Tim Broad coda of Wolverhampton wanderers beneath Bassey's "You'll Never Walk Alone". í would imagine that might have been the spark for that comment rather than the Death Valley porno. The "November Spawned A Monster" promo reminded me of many things, but Dame Shirley wasn't one of them? Plus as a Manchester Red he probably wasn't too amused...

.
 

AztecCamera

Well-Known Member
I reckon for the 1000th time, the California Son did not write his own autobiography. It was written by some dude in La Crescenta who was told to write what you wanted to hear and only got 5% of the residuals. Reckon blikey blood hell, you lots are the fark arse list of the lost.

I reckon the California Dad was a f***ing baller on the court. Dude was only 5'6'' but could dunk!! He didn't grow up playing basketball in Dublin, but when he and the California Mom emigrated to Moz Angeles, he took to basketball and obviously passed it on to his California Son c*** tit twat inn nnn n nn nn nn n n n it.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Quite.
And í still maintain that Morrissey's damn memory was playing up in "Autobiography". It seems more likely that his father was being shown the "Hulmerist" compilation which ends with "November Spawned A Monster" segueing quite wonderfully into the Tim Broad coda of Wolverhampton wanderers beneath Bassey's "You'll Never Walk Alone". í would imagine that might have been the spark for that comment rather than the Death Valley porno. The "November Spawned A Monster" promo reminded me of many things, but Dame Shirley wasn't one of them? Plus as a Manchester Red he probably wasn't too amused...

.

It could be that. Moz might have taken it as an insult about him being camp & seethed.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
Quite.
And í still maintain that Morrissey's damn memory was playing up in "Autobiography". It seems more likely that his father was being shown the "Hulmerist" compilation which ends with "November Spawned A Monster" segueing quite wonderfully into the Tim Broad coda of Wolverhampton wanderers beneath Bassey's "You'll Never Walk Alone". í would imagine that might have been the spark for that comment rather than the Death Valley porno. The "November Spawned A Monster" promo reminded me of many things, but Dame Shirley wasn't one of them? Plus as a Manchester Red he probably wasn't too amused...

.
You're probably right. I once tried to put his tour recollections from the last third of the book into chronological order because they're all over the place (hehe) and it's obvious that other parts of the book are also completely mixed up.
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
You're probably right. I once tried to put his tour recollections from the last third of the book into chronological order because they're all over the place (hehe) and it's obvious that other parts of the book are also completely mixed up.

The memory lapses abound. His Jake belly-pillow was shot for "Details" magazine, not "Creem" {although perhaps a Freudian slippage?}

Not a deal breaker though. Still a wonderful book.

.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
The memory lapses abound. His Jake belly-pillow was shot for "Details" magazine, not "Creem" {although perhaps a Freudian slippage?}

Not a deal breaker though. Still a wonderful book.

.

Yep, I noticed that too. (His head is also not on his... belly.)

Having read the book multiple times I think his wondrous travels and jumps through time, space and reality are an essential part of what makes the book so compelling and worth revisiting.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
He was never keen on talking about his father. Makes me think of this moment documented in the Les Inrocks interview from 1995:

"Q: Do your parents feel responsible for your constant state of sadness?
M: It pains my mother a lot. Not that she feels responsible but she's perfectly aware of my state of dissatisfaction. She'd love so much to see me happy and totally fulfilled. Yet, nothing is her fault.
Q: What about your father?
M: ...(He pulls a wry face, keeps silent and makes a wide gesture of the hand as a signal of defense. Then points to the microphone on the table, shaking his head, unable to speak. It follows an endless silence.)"

What's quite interesting is that whenever Peter is mentioned in Autobiography, it's either about sports and something bad happening to young Morrissey (watching his father swin before being pushed into the pool, almost drowning; Peter taking him to Old Trafford, where Morrissey collapses in the heat) or his father being disappointed in him ("In the play On Dartmoor I am Ulrick, a sulky child with a stupid voice. Unseen, I persistently shout down from an imaginary bedroom. The audience laugh, but my father does not. ‘You were very embarrassing,’ he tells me, as I appear all-smiles, and my air-balloon collides. Two years on, at Stretford Stadium I represent the school in the 400 meters dash (of sorts), legs muddied, face wet with rain, I clamber in at fourth place. My father is standing by the finishing-line. As I approach him he says, ‘You didn’t win,’ and he looks away, and life decomposes in a bucket. Perhaps I didn’t win but it didn’t help anyone to point it out.") or annoyed ("In 1972 I had played All the young dudes by Mott the Hoople to my father, and as it spun innocently before us on orange CBS, he stands to leave. ‘Ooh no, I’m not having that,’ were his words as he vanished in disgust. What exactly he wasn’t having I still do not know.") before Peter disappears almost completely from the narrative after moving out of the family home.

I don't know if it's what he had intended but I always imagine the lyrics of Dial-A-Cliché to be about his relationship with his father. I suppose it was never an easy one but Peter must have been proud nonetheless. He came to see him with The Smiths and also later on in his career. And like you said, he probably doesn't see him as "present day Elvis" but as his son Steven, who in the end managed to turn his quirks into his trademark and make a career out of it (oversimplification, I know).

I wonder if they had a fight over Peter speaking to Johnny Rogan for The Severed Alliance though.


Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Wonder if M forgave his father for speaking to Rogan? Do you know what year Peter went to one of his son’s solo shows? I mean if M invited him after the Rogan incident then that may answer the question, some what.


And yes, I think it’s safe to assume Dial a cliche is about his relationship with his father.


One more thought. If Morrissey was
puzzled by his fathers comment about
the November video, then that could mean that their relationship is such that Morrissey didn’t even feel comfortable with asking his father what he meant by the comment. Which is sad.
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Wonder if M forgave his father for speaking to Rogan? Do you know what year Peter went to one of his son’s solo shows? I mean if M invited him after the Rogan incident then that may answer the question, some what.


And yes, I think it’s safe to assume Dial a cliche is about his relationship with his father.


One more thought. If Morrissey was
puzzled by his fathers comment about
the November video, then that could mean that their relationship is such that Morrissey didn’t even feel comfortable with asking his father what he meant by the comment. Which is sad.

He was present {along with his Mother} at the Royal Albert Hall concerts in 2002.

í remember being strangely weirded out about it, when he announced it from the stage. Especially when he went on to do "Last Night on Maudlin Street"...


.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Nobody's Nothing
Thanks for your thoughts on this.


Wonder if M forgave his father for speaking to Rogan? Do you know what year Peter went to one of his son’s solo shows? I mean if M invited him after the Rogan incident then that may answer the question, some what.


And yes, I think it’s safe to assume Dial a cliche is about his relationship with his father.


One more thought. If Morrissey was
puzzled by his fathers comment about
the November video, then that could mean that their relationship is such that Morrissey didn’t even feel comfortable with asking his father what he meant by the comment. Which is sad.

One thing that's very strange about the whole "Sausage Appliance" thing is that Morrissey said Rogan didn't speak to anyone from his family - which is obviously false.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
He was never keen on talking about his father. Makes me think of this moment documented in the Les Inrocks interview from 1995:

"Q: Do your parents feel responsible for your constant state of sadness?
M: It pains my mother a lot. Not that she feels responsible but she's perfectly aware of my state of dissatisfaction. She'd love so much to see me happy and totally fulfilled. Yet, nothing is her fault.
Q: What about your father?
M: ...(He pulls a wry face, keeps silent and makes a wide gesture of the hand as a signal of defense. Then points to the microphone on the table, shaking his head, unable to speak. It follows an endless silence.)"

What's quite interesting is that whenever Peter is mentioned in Autobiography, it's either about sports and something bad happening to young Morrissey (watching his father swin before being pushed into the pool, almost drowning; Peter taking him to Old Trafford, where Morrissey collapses in the heat) or his father being disappointed in him ("In the play On Dartmoor I am Ulrick, a sulky child with a stupid voice. Unseen, I persistently shout down from an imaginary bedroom. The audience laugh, but my father does not. ‘You were very embarrassing,’ he tells me, as I appear all-smiles, and my air-balloon collides. Two years on, at Stretford Stadium I represent the school in the 400 meters dash (of sorts), legs muddied, face wet with rain, I clamber in at fourth place. My father is standing by the finishing-line. As I approach him he says, ‘You didn’t win,’ and he looks away, and life decomposes in a bucket. Perhaps I didn’t win but it didn’t help anyone to point it out.") or annoyed ("In 1972 I had played All the young dudes by Mott the Hoople to my father, and as it spun innocently before us on orange CBS, he stands to leave. ‘Ooh no, I’m not having that,’ were his words as he vanished in disgust. What exactly he wasn’t having I still do not know.") before Peter disappears almost completely from the narrative after moving out of the family home.

I don't know if it's what he had intended but I always imagine the lyrics of Dial-A-Cliché to be about his relationship with his father. I suppose it was never an easy one but Peter must have been proud nonetheless. He came to see him with The Smiths and also later on in his career. And like you said, he probably doesn't see him as "present day Elvis" but as his son Steven, who in the end managed to turn his quirks into his trademark and make a career out of it (oversimplification, I know).

I wonder if they had a fight over Peter speaking to Johnny Rogan for The Severed Alliance though.

That's probably the issue right there - young Moz wanted to be a performer & his Dad was constantly crushing him & making him feel a failure.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
He was present {along with his Mother} at the Royal Albert Hall concerts in 2002.

.

Were they seated together?

One thing that's very strange about the whole "Sausage Appliance" thing is that Morrissey said Rogan didn't speak to anyone from his family - which is obviously false.

I think that was just Morrissey throwing in a wrench to the validity of Rogan’s book.
 
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