speaking of extremism, the Brendan Eich firing

is it OK for people to be fired for their political views?

  • yes

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • no

    Votes: 4 80.0%

  • only if I disagree with those views

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .
troubleluvsme said:
Sadly, it's not so common anymore.
(love Dean and Sam, btw)
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cool, and here is how f***ed up I am, I did not watch "Supernatural" for like 3 years because I was pissed it replaced "Angel" one of my fave shows :crazy: but some of my friends kept thinking of the show when they thought of me and said so, so I finally watched and yes, within these 2 brothers, I found so much to connect with. So when I started watching with my own brothers, well, the deal was settled forever, its nice to skype with D. and mention the latest episode of it, it connects not just over time, but distance as well




troubleluvsme said:
Exactly. As a business owner, I don't care about my employees' religious or political views, sex, race, orientation, age, etc....
It is all about performance.
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I'd like to work for you :blushing:

realitybites said:
It is my opinion that people should not be fired for their political, religious, or other beliefs. Especially when it has nothing to do with their ability to perform their job duties effectively and competently. I think it is morally wrong and goes against the American ideal of freedom of expression. However, I also believe in free markets. And oppose government regulation which is unnecessary and overly intrusive. There are laws to protect people against discrimination against things for which they have no choice... race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. I think sexual orientation should be included there and probably will in the near future. But to pass more legislation to protect beliefs, affiliations, associations, interests, etc. is going down a slippery slope. This is totalitarianism--where the state controls and regulates everything. I stated that Hitchens would oppose a person being fired for their political beliefs because he believed wholeheartedly in the First Amendment. But Hitchens also opposed government regulation. He abhorred the notion of a nanny state. Although he hated religion, he would never want it outlawed. He despised anti-Semitism but would never want to make it illegal to express anti-Semitic views. So, I am taking a guess here, but I would say that he would not want the government to pass laws telling companies who they can and cannot fire based on their beliefs. He would just hope that they wouldn't be fired because of these things.

Could be wrong though. I am no expert on Hitchens. Just a fan and admirer of his writings and contributions to political and religious discourse.
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OK, Hitchens aside, and reading some of what others have posted, here is the deal:
I feel the need to restate that while not "technically" fired, being asked to sign a document that publicly disavows one's political beliefs if one is to not be "fired" is the same as being fired :cool:
I feel this way so strongly because such is common in the country I currently live in China, the state is a partner to companies in this horrible game of oppression
However, they do take their cues from what is acceptable in the USA, so basically, the government of the USA acting or not as it does
means that millions here in China must expect to swear to "loyalty oaths" if they want to be hired
for me, the country I love from afar(or at least the "idea of it"), it is the one STILL for the people and by the people NOT
just another where riches and whatnot matter more than "the people" getting a bit teary eyed, but hey, that's the America, I served, fought and killed for
not one where companies are so ascendant, I know what I speak of is a dream, but the dream is America!
and if such a dream is truly dead, then so is America
hooah...
 
Oh my god said:
cool, and here is how f***ed up I am, I did not watch "Supernatural" for like 3 years because I was pissed it replaced "Angel" one of my fave shows :crazy: but some of my friends kept thinking of the show when they thought of me and said so, so I finally watched and yes, within these 2 brothers, I found so much to connect with. So when I started watching with my own brothers, well, the deal was settled forever, its nice to skype with D. and mention the latest episode of it, it connects not just over time, but distance as well





I'd like to work for you :blushing:


OK, Hitchens aside, and reading some of what others have posted, here is the deal:
I feel the need to restate that while not "technically" fired, being asked to sign a document that publicly disavows one's political beliefs if one is to not be "fired" is the same as being fired :cool:
I feel this way so strongly because such is common in the country I currently live in China, the state is a partner to companies in this horrible game of oppression
However, they do take their cues from what is acceptable in the USA, so basically, the government of the USA acting or not as it does
means that millions here in China must expect to swear to "loyalty oaths" if they want to be hired
for me, the country I love from afar(or at least the "idea of it"), it is the one STILL for the people and by the people NOT
just another where riches and whatnot matter more than "the people" getting a bit teary eyed, but hey, that's the America, I served, fought and killed for
not one where companies are so ascendant, I know what I speak of is a dream, but the dream is America!
and if such a dream is truly dead, then so is America
hooah...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but companies have been making employees sign 'loyalty oaths' since legal contracts have existed. Maybe the company can't have you executed for your betrayal but they can fire you or sue you for breech of contract. Only time you are safe is if you are blowing the whistle because you are reporting illegal/unethical activities. (And actually you may in fact not be safe.)

I get your point though.

Often I play devil's advocate. I argue a position. It may not even be my personal opinion. I do it for fun. As a challenge. It gets people irritate though. They take it personally. Call me arrogant. I think it is hilarious. Shows you how poor peoples' reasoning and debate skills are. I could name names. But, just look at the twits who attack me wherever I post. This thread is a perfect example. They can't be objective at all. It is always personal. They see the messenger and automatically discount the message. f*** em. Idiots. Saddos.

It isn't easy playing contrarian. Hahaha.
 
I maintain that Chaos is the future I & beyond it is freedom

realitybites said:
Yeah, but companies have been making employees sign 'loyalty oaths' since legal contracts have existed. Maybe the company can't have you executed for your betrayal but they can fire you or sue you for breech of contract. Only time you are safe is if you are blowing the whistle because you are reporting illegal/unethical activities. (And actually you may in fact not be safe.)

I get your point though.

Often I play devil's advocate. I argue a position. It may not even be my personal opinion. I do it for fun. As a challenge. It gets people irritate though. They take it personally. Call me arrogant. I think it is hilarious. Shows you how poor peoples' reasoning and debate skills are. I could name names. But, just look at the twits who attack me wherever I post. This thread is a perfect example. They can't be objective at all. It is always personal. They see the messenger and automatically discount the message. f*** em. Idiots. Saddos.

It isn't easy playing contrarian. Hahaha.
Click to expand...
:highfive:
 
realitybites said:
Often I play devil's advocate. I argue a position. It may not even be my personal opinion. I do it for fun. As a challenge. It gets people irritate though. They take it personally. Call me arrogant. I think it is hilarious.
Click to expand...

This is not playing devils advocate. This is trolling. There is a difference. Don't misunderstand. I think trolling can be an artform but you're fingerpainting with your own vomit.
 
Re: I maintain that Chaos is the future I & beyond it is freedom

realitybites said:
:flowers:
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smilie_ritter.gif
 
Anonymous said:
This is not playing devils advocate. This is trolling. There is a difference. Don't misunderstand. I think trolling can be an artform but you're fingerpainting with your own vomit.
Click to expand...

She's also floating the impression that she subscribes to any positions that are aggressive or domineering, as a way of signaling to any trolls that she'd love to join their team.

She's always looking for a new set of coat tails to take a ride on.
 
So if companies are given free reign to run themselves according to a self determined set of morals, values and ideals to which their employees must comply, is Hobby Lobby right to deny its female employees health insurance coverage for contraception?
 
Anonymous said:
She's also floating the impression that she subscribes to any positions that are aggressive or domineering, as a way of signaling to any trolls that she'd love to join their team.

She's always looking for a new set of coat tails to take a ride on.
Click to expand...

Sock puppet.
 
Iona Mink said:
So if companies are given free reign to run themselves according to a self determined set of morals, values and ideals to which their employees must comply, is Hobby Lobby right to deny its female employees health insurance coverage for contraception?
Click to expand...

Companies can and do deny employment to smokers because it goes against their values or because they don't want to pay higher insurance rates for smokers. They can hire and fire based on drug screenings. So companies do regulate morality. As a liberal who believes in access to birth control, I would not want to work for a company that denied me medical coverage for birth control. If I had a choice, I would work for another company. Perhaps Hobby Lobby is the only employer for miles in a small town and young women have no other employment options.

But, from what I understand, HL does cover many forms of birth control. It just wants to deny coverage for the morning after pill which stops implantation of a (potentially) fertilized egg. If the pills can be purchased over the counter and rather inexpensively, then I have no problem with honoring this exemption in their coverage on religious grounds. But if the Supreme Court allows for this, is this just opening up a can of worms--setting a dangerous precedent? That is my fear.
 
Last edited:
realitybites said:
Companies can and do deny employment to smokers because it goes against their values or because they don't want to pay higher insurance rates for smokers. They can hire and fire based on drug screenings. So companies do regulate morality. As a liberal who believes in access to birth control, I would not want to work for a company that denied me medical coverage for birth control. If I had a choice, I would work for another company. Perhaps Hobby Lobby is the only employer for miles in a small town and young women have no other employment options.

But, from what I understand, HL does cover many forms of birth control. It just wants to deny coverage for the morning after pill which stops implantation of a (potentially) fertilized egg. If the pills can be purchased over the counter and rather inexpensively, then I have no problem with honoring this exemption in their coverage on religious grounds. But if the Supreme Court allows for this, is this just opening up a can of worms--setting a dangerous precedent? That is my fear.
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never really been a fan of judges, to be honest? the fact that judges are all first lawyers makes anything they do suspect
I think our legal system would be much better if lawyers were barred from being judges, not a prerequisite :cool:
 
I will gay marry that bitch in the ass and make him like it. Too extreme?
 
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