Songs "Obviously" About Johnny Marr

[King Leer]

"Ran back to Marr?"

I thought it was "Ran back to Ma" as in mother...because at that time Moz' mam was helping him manage his career and he was spending more time (living?) with her. The phonetic closeness to "Marr" probably wasn't lost on him, though.

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Yes! That's probably I'd love to... work with Johnny again.

> "I'd Love To" as well. Don't you think?

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: "Ran back to Marr?"

Well, it's a play on words, but I'm sure he means "Marr" really. Also there's the "You ran with your friends in The Sun" which could be the newspaper, of course...

> I thought it was "Ran back to Ma" as in mother...because at that
> time Moz' mam was helping him manage his career and he was spending more
> time (living?) with her. The phonetic closeness to "Marr"
> probably wasn't lost on him, though.

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: Suedehead haircut...

Johnny was certainly trying to toughen up The Smiths image post-Ask, probably as a reaction to the fey Indie scene... which may have caused some tension between him and Moz (see Dial-a-Cliche?) because used to camp it up quite a bit toward the end of the Smiths! Ironically, of course, quite soon after Moz tried to toughen up his own image with Playboys and so forth.

> I've always thought that it was interesting how macho Johnny was looking
> towards the end of the Smiths. You can't help but wonder if he was trying
> to proclaim his heterosexuality, though it may have had the opposite
> effect, since Moz seems to like tough boys!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: Say Billy Budd

So how do the rest of the song's lyrics tie in with Marr?
Everyone's laughing at Marr, because he was with Morrissey?
or because of The Smiths?

Say, Billy Budd
So you think you should ?
Oh, everyone's laughing
Say, Billy Budd
So you think that you should ?
Everyone's laughing !
Since I took up with you

Things have been bad
Yeah, but now it's 12 years on
Now it's 12 years on
Yes, and I took up with you

I took my job application
Into town
Did you hear ? They turned me down
Yes, and it's all because of us
Oh, and what was in our eyes
Oh, what was in our eyes, yeah

I said, Billy Budd
I would happily lose
Both of my legs
I would lose both of my legs
Oh, if it meant you could be free
Oh, if it meant you could be free

(Don't leave us in the dark!)

> I'm almost completely certain Billy Budd, He Know I'd Love To See Him, and
> Disappointed are. And, of course, he actually admitted Angel, Down We Go
> Together is about Johnny...

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: Say Billy Budd

> So how do the rest of the song's lyrics tie in with Marr?

Here's goes: Billy Budd, in the story is a young sailor, who has a friendship with an older mentor figure...

> Say, Billy Budd
> So you think you should ?
> Oh, everyone's laughing
> Say, Billy Budd
> So you think that you should ?
> Everyone's laughing !
> Since I took up with you

Firstly, everyone's laughing at Moz and Marr forming The Smiths because they think it won't work. The second "everyone's laughing" could also be an ironic reference to their miserablist tag, because really they wrote some very amusing songs which actually made people laugh.

> Things have been bad

... since Moz and parted, of course.

> Yeah, but now it's 12 years on
> Now it's 12 years on
> Yes, and I took up with you

... and it was 1994, 12 years since they met. (Pre-Vauxhall & I was also the period they briefly became friendly again...)

> I took my job application
> Into town
> Did you hear ? They turned me down

This is about how he went looking for collaborators after the split, but nobody wanted to work with him. People like Roddy Frame even turned him down!

> Yes, and it's all because of us
> Oh, and what was in our eyes
> Oh, what was in our eyes, yeah

He realises the reason they won't work with him is because the Moz/Marr partnership was so good and they think they couldn't live up to it.

> I said, Billy Budd
> I would happily lose
> Both of my legs
> I would lose both of my legs
> Oh, if it meant you could be free
> Oh, if it meant you could be free

Well, he'd happily lose his legs if Marr was free to work with him again...

> (Don't leave us in the dark!)

I suppose, don't leave us (Morrissey and us Smiths fans) in the dark, when Moz and Marr could be writing songs together again!

 

[No one special]

Don't forget these things take time! But I'd Love to...

couldn't "I'd love to" be about Jake? Maybe my time periods are off, but I always assumed it was about Jake.

 

[nonesoever]

Re: Say Billy Budd

Well, I guess everything can be twisted around.
but you do it so well.

> Here's goes: Billy Budd, in the story is a young sailor, who has a
> friendship with an older mentor figure...

> Firstly, everyone's laughing at Moz and Marr forming The Smiths because
> they think it won't work. The second "everyone's laughing" could
> also be an ironic reference to their miserablist tag, because really they
> wrote some very amusing songs which actually made people laugh.

> ... since Moz and parted, of course.

> ... and it was 1994, 12 years since they met. (Pre-Vauxhall & I was
> also the period they briefly became friendly again...)

> This is about how he went looking for collaborators after the split, but
> nobody wanted to work with him. People like Roddy Frame even turned him
> down!

> He realises the reason they won't work with him is because the Moz/Marr
> partnership was so good and they think they couldn't live up to it.

> Well, he'd happily lose his legs if Marr was free to work with him
> again...

> I suppose, don't leave us (Morrissey and us Smiths fans) in the dark, when
> Moz and Marr could be writing songs together again!

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: Say Billy Budd

Thanks! Of course, I'm only guessing, but it's an interesting theory...

> Well, I guess everything can be twisted around.
> but you do it so well.

 

[Gabriella]

Re: Don't forget these things take time! But I'd Love to...

> couldn't "I'd love to" be about Jake? Maybe my time periods are
> off, but I always assumed it was about Jake.

I think it was written around the time of Viva Hate. It's on the extended version of Viva Hate. I didn't realize what an early song it was either. It's one of his best, IMO...

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: Don't forget these things take time! But I'd Love to...

Nope -- it was a b-side on the The More You Ignore Me... CD single. I don't understand why it should be included on the extended Viva Hate really... but it is a lost classic.

> I think it was written around the time of Viva Hate. It's on the extended
> version of Viva Hate. I didn't realize what an early song it was either.
> It's one of his best, IMO...

 

[Gabriella]

Re: Don't forget these things take time! But I'd Love to...

> Nope -- it was a b-side on the The More You Ignore Me... CD single. I
> don't understand why it should be included on the extended Viva Hate
> really... but it is a lost classic.

Not to be pedantic...but I think those songs were stuck onto the extended version of Viva Hate because they were all "created" around then. It makes sense, but I might be wrong...Possibly "I'd Love To" was written earlier, but not recorded until the Vauxhall era?

 

[Dirk McNasty]

Re: Don't forget these things take time! But I'd Love to...

Gabriella -- I'd love to think so too! Alas, I'd Love To is a Moz/Boz song and so has nothing to do with Viva Hate. Then you have Let The Right One Slip In which is a very early Lads collaboration. I think it was just a case of record company politics getting the extra tracks very wrong -- they really should just have been the Viva Hate-period b-sides: I Know Very Well..., Hairdresser, Oh Well I'll Never Learn, Sister I'm A Poet, Disappointed, and the extended We'll Never Marry... which would have made so much more sense!

> Not to be pedantic...but I think those songs were stuck onto the extended
> version of Viva Hate because they were all "created" around
> then. It makes sense, but I might be wrong...Possibly "I'd Love
> To" was written earlier, but not recorded until the Vauxhall era?