Song/Lyric Meanings...

[nightandday]

I think you are unwittingly proving the point that people pick out the bits that suit their agenda without even realising you are doing it.

Please explain, how am I doing it?? What and whose agenda is that, and what are the other bits that don't suit it?

 

[marilyn manson]

you have killed me

i think this song deals with dissappointment

am i wrong?

 

[Sunbags]

Here's an interview where the contract is discussed. And here's the section of the interview if you don't want to read it all.

The media contract that was put into effect before Guns n' Roses started the tour outraged a lot of journalists who felt that you were trying to control what was printed about the band. And I think that's a legitimate gripe on the part of the press.

Yeah. But I don't think they understood what we were trying to do. We were trying to cut down on our exposure. There is such a thing as overexposure. We were also trying to weed out the assholes from the people who were gonna be cool. You know, if you were willing to put your ass on the line and sign the damn thing, then we pretty much figured you weren't gonna try and screw us. There were people who agreed to sign it and then we told them they didn't have to.

Can you understand why even a reporter who wasn't out to get you would refuse to sign something like that?

I don't know. I guess only if they thought that we wanted everything to look peachy keen.

That's the way it came across, because the contract gave you the right of final approval over everything that was written by anyone who signed it.
I'm not that way. I want the real story. I never wanted "Steven Adler's on vacation." I wanted "Steven Adler's in a f***ing rehab." (Adler, G n' R's former drummer, was fired from the group for excessive drug use.) I wanted the reality. Maybe I'd like it a bit optimistic, but I've always been more into the reality of the situations, because that's what I wanted to read about the band. I can see where it would look like we just wanted everything to be right about us. But it was also trying to find a way to work with certain metal magazines. There are a lot of kids who collect those, and we'd rather they have real stories than bullshit stories. I haven't done an interview with Hit Parader or Circus in three or four years.

You've said you can't trust them to print what you actually say.

Yeah. And it's not that what they print is so bad. It's just that when someone puts corny little words in that you didn't say ... like Slash saying something about "Well, we're gonna just shake it up and see what happens." Slash would never say that, and it made him feel really dorky. Looking back at it and reading it, it may not be that bad. But we know that we would've come off a lot better if it had been what we really said. I think I've got a pretty good track record of not lying.

*********************************************************
I went looking for the contract, but can't find it. At the time Spin magazine printed the contract instead of agreeing to it because they saw the contract as the real story. This earned Bob Guccione, Jr, then editor of Spin magazine a mention on a Guns'N'Roses song.

No one ever wound up in court about this though, and I think that once the existence of the contract was known it was dropped. The contract is worth reading though, and I might even have the old Spin magazine where they printed it. If I find it I'll post it. I just remember that it used language about penalties for breaking the contract and I believe it required journalists to post a $50,000 bond that they would lose if they published somethng the band didn't like. But Axl's mood swung another direction, or he was embarassed when the contract was published and it was dropped. I don't know why I remember things like this, really...

Thank you very much for that! So it was the printing of the contract which was at the center of the fiasco. But the point I was making was that, like Guns'n'Roses, certain interview subjects can dictate the terms of the interview. The key word is that they could, unlike someone (who is not deemed to be of great importance) giving an interview to the local newspaper. The question is, would they? Given what happened to G'n'R (the contract was revealed) and how that might change their fans' perceptions of them, perhaps they might be reluctant to stipulate their terms. However, I find it hard to believe that someone like Morrissey would not exert a certain amount of control over an interview, which is what started me off thinking about this.

 

[Jones]

Thank you very much for that! So it was the printing of the contract which was at the center of the fiasco. But the point I was making was that, like Guns'n'Roses, certain interview subjects can dictate the terms of the interview. The key word is that they could, unlike someone (who is not deemed to be of great importance) giving an interview to the local newspaper. The question is, would they? Given what happened to G'n'R (the contract was revealed) and how that might change their fans' perceptions of them, perhaps they might be reluctant to stipulate their terms. However, I find it hard to believe that someone like Morrissey would not exert a certain amount of control over an interview, which is what started me off thinking about this.

I don't think Morrissey would have enough clout to have control over an interview. He's not a Hollywood filmstar. His only control would be to suss out who was going to interview him and decide if they were trustworthy or not.

There are stories of him taking his own tape recorder to interviews in the nineties so that he had a record of the interview as well as the journalist and therefore they wouldn't be able to make up quotes from him. That still wouldn't guard against the journalist injecting their own bias into the written piece though.

 

[Sunbags]

There's no contract between interviewer and interviewee. Copyright is not awarded to the interviewee.

That is true, but the terms of copyright must be discussed with the interviewee before the interview. The interviewer owns copyright of the interview, as long as the interviewer complied with proper interviewing procedure (i.e. if an interviewee believes that the interviewer was in breach of certain copyright laws which pertain to the interviewing process, then he/she could contest the interviewers' ownership of copyright). Your above statement holds, unless contracts are brought into the equation.

There is no consent involved, though.

That all depends on the interviewee (i.e. is the interviewee in a postion to dictate the terms of an interview and will they do so, if able).

As long as people are talking...

'xactly!

 

[Sunbags]

I don't think Morrissey would have enough clout to have control over an interview.

Well now, that, is truly a matter of opinion!

 

[Sunbags]

I never meant Journalists are evil and deliberately go out of their way to misrepresent Morrissey.

What I mean is we all have prejudices and we tend to look for the facts to confirm our prejudices and ignore things that go against what we believe to be true. That's just how the human mind seems to work. Even liberal journalists do this (remember the "perhaps it's a gay thing" about racisim in the NME?).

A journalist might think he/she is giving an honest account of a meeting they had with Morrissey but quite often they are subtly editing the incident to fit with the idea of Morrissey they already had before meeting him. Our first impressions of people are always guided by our previous experience of what we think is their "type". It's only when you get to know someone properly that you realise they don't conform to the type you've allotted them to.

I'm sorry Danny, nothing I said was directed at you (although it must look that way). You just happened to mention the whole journalism thing, that's all. I didn't mean to offend.

 

[nightandday]

bumped because I think this is a great thread, or at least it was before we started getting off-topic. The highlights for me were the big discussion on all the possible different meanings of The Hand That Rocks The Cradle, and Jones's wonderful interpretation of Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning, a song I was long trying to figure out.

I think we've had enough talk of Morrissey's parents, and please, please let's have no more talk of journalists that (don't) lie, the way they conduct and publish interiviews, and the contracts that Axl Rose wanted them to sign, or whatever.

 

[lilikoi]

back to the topic: what's friday mourning really about?

 

[slum mum 1974]

back to the topic: what's friday mourning really about?

"In keeping with it's bleak punning title, the tempo of this tune was suitably funereal in the style of Mark Nevin's mournful melody on Kill Uncle's Asian Rut. The lyrics also recalled the mordant humour of Viva Hate's 'Late Night Maudlin Street'. Midway through, there is even an echo of the comic revulsion of a nation turning it's back and gagging at Morrissey's nakedness in the wry, 'I will never stand naked in front of you'. There's also a probable allusion to his retirement from the pop pantheon in teh demand to douse the houselights because, 'I'm not coming back'. That threat was last heard in more comic mode at the close of 'Disappointed'. Of course the words could equally refer to suicide, especially in view of the funeral imagery that closes the song. Amid this maudlin meditation the singer roll calls the views of teachers, parents and bosses all of whom offer the denigrating litany, 'You are a loser'."

 

[Kewpie]

"In keeping with it's bleak punning title, the tempo of this tune was suitably funereal in the style of Mark Nevin's mournful melody on Kill Uncle's Asian Rut. The lyrics also recalled the mordant humour of Viva Hate's 'Late Night Maudlin Street'. Midway through, there is even an echo of the comic revulsion of a nation turning it's back and gagging at Morrissey's nakedness in the wry, 'I will never stand naked in front of you'. There's also a probable allusion to his retirement from the pop pantheon in teh demand to douse the houselights because, 'I'm not coming back'. That threat was last heard in more comic mode at the close of 'Disappointed'. Of course the words could equally refer to suicide, especially in view of the funeral imagery that closes the song. Amid this maudlin meditation the singer roll calls the views of teachers, parents and bosses all of whom offer the denigrating litany, 'You are a loser'."

Which book/article do you quote?

 

[slum mum 1974]

Which book/article do you quote?

Oops..Sorry....Johnny Rogan, Morrissey:the Albums

 

[nightandday]

Oops..Sorry....Johnny Rogan, Morrissey:the Albums

Of course, this is just Johnny Rogan's interpretation. Nobody but Morrissey can tell us what the songs are really about.

The 'you' in Morrissey's songs is often very ambiguous, there is a number of songs that you can either see as addressed to a particular person, or to his audience or the public in general. For instance, Rogan interprets both Friday Mourning and Life Is A Pigsty as "more likely to be a direct address to his audience rather than a specific person". Which may or may not be true. Or it may have been meant to have both meanings.

How about The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get? Lots of people interpret it as a love song, but I think it lends itself very easily to the other interpretation.

 

[slum mum 1974]

Of course, this is just Johnny Rogan's interpretation. Nobody but Morrissey can tell us what the songs are really about.

The 'you' in Morrissey's songs is often very ambiguous, there is a number of songs that you can either see as addressed to a particular person, or to his audience or the public in general. For instance, Rogan interprets both Friday Mourning and Life Is A Pigsty as "more likely to be a direct address to his audience rather than a specific person". Which may or may not be true. Or it may have been meant to have both meanings.

How about The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get? Lots of people interpret it as a love song, but I think it lends itself very easily to the other interpretation.

I think personally that The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get, is a song about stalkers. I personally find that this song speaks volumes to me as i have these stalker tendencies....It probably could be considered a love song, but one that the love is not well recieved.

 

[nightandday]

I think personally that The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get, is a song about stalkers. I personally find that this song speaks volumes to me as i have these stalker tendencies....It probably could be considered a love song, but one that the love is not well recieved.

Do you know 'Obsession' by Siouxsie and the Banshees? that's the best song about stalking/erotomania I've ever heard.

 

[slum mum 1974]

Do you know 'Obsession' by Siouxsie and the Banshees? that's the best song about stalking/erotomania I've ever heard.

nope but i am off to download that track now....cheers coz i like her voice and it suits my personality

 

[slum mum 1974]

Do you know 'Obsession' by Siouxsie and the Banshees? that's the best song about stalking/erotomania I've ever heard.

Wow....that song was written for and about me, my favourite part was
'i broke into your room - i broke down in my room
touched your belongings there - and left a lock of my hair
another sign for you

you screamed into my face get the hell out of my place
another sign for me? can you forgive me?
for not understanding your ways'


Oh how true!

 

[lilikoi]

"In keeping with it's bleak punning title, the tempo of this tune was suitably funereal in the style of Mark Nevin's mournful melody on Kill Uncle's Asian Rut. The lyrics also recalled the mordant humour of Viva Hate's 'Late Night Maudlin Street'. Midway through, there is even an echo of the comic revulsion of a nation turning it's back and gagging at Morrissey's nakedness in the wry, 'I will never stand naked in front of you'. There's also a probable allusion to his retirement from the pop pantheon in teh demand to douse the houselights because, 'I'm not coming back'. That threat was last heard in more comic mode at the close of 'Disappointed'. Of course the words could equally refer to suicide, especially in view of the funeral imagery that closes the song. Amid this maudlin meditation the singer roll calls the views of teachers, parents and bosses all of whom offer the denigrating litany, 'You are a loser'."

big mouth the 23rd? doesn't make that much sense...

I thought it was about suicide at first, but what about the "dawn raid" and "kicking down the stairs"? could it maybe be about a jealousy murder???

 

[sonof77]

Friday mourning reminded me of The Beatles "She's leaving home"..

 

[slum mum 1974]

big mouth the 23rd? doesn't make that much sense...

I thought it was about suicide at first, but what about the "dawn raid" and "kicking down the stairs"? could it maybe be about a jealousy murder???

It very much could be as he puts it like this, 'I see the faces all lined up before me, Of teachers and of parents, and bosses, who all share a point of view', especially as 'For years I warned you through tears I told you' could be that he was scared for his life.......yes i think the jealousy murder could most definitely work.