Some thoughts of Jim Morrison vs. Morrissey

Cudweed

New Member
Well, I'd like to make some comparison with Morrissey and Jim Morrison. I don't know where it came from, but that's how it is with thoughts - you don't where they come from. It's just some thoughts, maybe some crazy ones, I dunno.
I think it started when I realised that both of them are/were very solitary, shy and reclusive, especially before they started collaborate with their bandmates (i.e. the Smiths and the Doors). And my thoughts kept on, and I then realised that both of these handsome creatures also mingled literature, drama and music, but of course in their own way, marked by they own personal visions. While Morrissey represents some sort of ascetic and - maybe more - mundane pop, an Englishness, or whatever, Morrison represented some sort of symbolic dionysian rock, being American, but that's may also be a very used and clichéd and boring way of thinking, which I'd like to challenge with this comparision. Well, maybe they'll be a bit simplistic, but that's how "science" is ... very black and white in order to propagate "the gospel". :D

You got the Doors, reviving popular music with Jimi, Janis and Velvet Underground an all that in the mid-sixties. They seem to put an end to the early part of rock n roll scene for real, consisting of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly etc. - and maybe a bit early Beatles and Stones. And then you got the Smiths during a bit the same in the early eighties, reviving popular music anew by putting an end to clichéd drunken rock n roll scene. A scene which in this theory was started by the Doors and the Velvet Underground and such, and that had inspired the punksters, but seems to have died out in the early eighties ( or should I say "the early hateties" :D ).
Another interesting thing is that both bands, the Doors and the Smiths, had a great influence on their time, they even seem to challenge their time. They were very original and intelligent, yes, both bands were indeed very significant for their time, maybe even more than The Beatles and Madonna. But then again, in a very strange way, I think, maybe because that ... it was a very personal relationship that they had to their songs and art. Still they managed to reach the charts, and express what people felt like in the sixties and eighties. And they were both sort scapegoats - Morrissey, may even still be! - when they were on.
Well, keep on draw some more parallels if you like. If you understand what I am saying. Hope not I have offended your beliefs and images of the reality too much, but what do you think of a comparision like this? And what would Morrissey possibly think, I'm not sure if he digs the Doors? I don't thinks so, and that's how it is, true pioneers don't really care about what came before them. Just like Morrison, and ... of course Morrissey. - Cudweed :)
 
ummmm, ok that shit was way too much to read. however. i was on the train yesterday and some crackhead sitting across from me started staring at my chest and i heard him go..."morri....morris...what does your shirt say? jim morrison??"i was like "umm, no. morrissey"...he goes "whos that?!" i was like " a singer." hes goes "ohhh, im not up on all this new music thats out today. i love led zeppelin and bad company! "i was like "yeah okay."

and thats my morrissey vs. morrison story.
 
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Well, maybe it got a little bit out of hand! But I wanted to make my self clear, and come up with alternative interpretion. And I think I did! ;) But thanks for your story, it was interesting to hear.
By the way, I think Morrissey is the only true rebel left, and I think people forget that. Because "you can't be a rebel singing pop tunes" etc. Actually, rock music at the time don't appear very rebelous to me. Not that I'm saying, that it's all about that, but that what a lot of people think. And rock is the only way to be rebelous, but that's just bullshit, really. Morrissey will prove those people wrong, he might be more rebelous, dirty and so on, than any long-haired heavy metal rocker on earth. Just by saying what he feel - Cudweed
 
Well, that's okay! I dig Manson! But he just hasn't been playing for awhile, though I know he's on his way with a new release, which I actually look pretty much forward to. Still I personally thinks that Morrissey/ The Smiths have been more effective. I mean, rock music has always been rebelous and effective, Manson is "just" - don't take me wrong - adding to an old art form, which does really really well(applause!). But popmusic has never been rebelous and personal, before Morrissey came along, so that's why, really, Morrissey, was more inventive ... But all in all, Manson and Morrissey are the only rebels left ... ;) - Cudweed
 
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Both different genres of music, and all open to interpretations from individuals and fans. The Doors were a part of the Psychedelic scene in west coast america, The Smiths weren't just another factory band from manchester. Always the opinion here is going to be bias, but i can see a link between the early meetings of Ray Manzarek & Jim Morrison & Morrissey & Marr. Manzarek/Marr meeting an 'interesting' person who wrote lyrics but wasn't naturally a singer. Morrison and Morrissey are two opposites in character thou.

Interesting thoughts, as both bands i really like:)
 
Well, come on boys and girls! There must be more to be said about this comparison, or what? Just a few more comments would be nice, really ...
-Cudweed
 
Morrissey wouldn't like Morrisons leather trousers or long hair......sorry that's all i can think of at the moment.
 
I like The Doors, but there's nothing I can say about them comparing with The Smiths.
Musically there's very little connection/influence.
It'd be interesting to discuss about The Doors and Echo and The Bunnymen rather than The Smiths.
 
I like The Doors, but there's nothing I can say about them comparing with The Smiths.
Musically there's very little connection/influence.
It'd be interesting to discuss about The Doors and Echo and The Bunnymen rather than The Smiths.

I don't think the discussion is basically about the musical side of it, but the characters of morrison & morrissey, being poetic individuals really, but they are two quite different in their directions. As Morrison, was really a 'white' blues man, interested in sex and hard living and Morrissey takes his "blues" from his kind of regional heritage and 'kitchen sink dramas'.

The music of the doors is based around Ray Manzarek keyboards and the Smiths around Marr's guitar, then again you didn't need me to tell you that:).
 
Morrisson is a typical American junkie boring the world with awful third rate blues and 'such bloody awful poetry', no comparison.
 
Morrisson is a typical American junkie boring the world with awful third rate blues and 'such bloody awful poetry', no comparison.

Knew you wouldn't like him:p


But for a lot of the time, it' s Ray Manzarek keyboards that i like.
 
I don't know how the camparison of the two came about. Both Morrissey and Jim Morrison seem to have a crooning technique in the singing styles(I Think). Like I said before, how can you compare the two?
 
I like The Doors, but there's nothing I can say about them comparing with The Smiths.
Musically there's very little connection/influence.
It'd be interesting to discuss about The Doors and Echo and The Bunnymen rather than The Smiths.

It's interesting that you say that because I've sometimes thought Ian sounded like Jim Morrison, which has always disturbed me slightly as I am not a Doors fan at all. I've often wondered if Echo and the Bunnymen were influenced by The Doors.
 
And btw, it really annoys me when people confuse Morrisson with MorrisSEY. I can't tell you how many times I've told people Morrissey is my favorite singer and they respond with, "Ohhh, Jim Morrissey??"

That's when I let out my exasperated sigh.
 
No comparison in my opinion. Morrison was into expansion of the mind through Dionysian sex, drugs, and quasi-magic ritual (i.e. rock and roll). Morrissey's writing is less metaphysical and less blood-and-semen visceral. Morrissey's songs are more playful, allusive, artificial, and draw from different wellsprings of inspiration. That's enough to distinguish them pretty dramatically. You could probably go down the list of other similarities and differences and assemble an interesting list of overlapping sensibilities but really there's no point in reconciling two songwriters whose inspirations are so different.

I've come across these comparisons before and it's surprising that some think the realm of pop music so devoid of intelligent artists that the the few who are so-called "poets" are seen as kindred spirits. In fact there are lots of songwriters who could be called "poets", men and women whose songs truck with "literature" or "drama" to some degree. By these definitions Morrissey and Morrison would also be in league with people like Ghostface Killah and Sting.

Also, I question the idea that The Smiths "renewed" popular music. They didn't change the industry. They did challenge it, yes, but I don't think the music industry as a whole was revitalized by the appearance of The Smiths. For a handful of Smiths apostles, yes, popular music was revitalized because of Morrissey's crusade to reclaim it from idiots. But on the whole, no, I don't think The Smiths really changed anything. As Morrissey said, if anything The Smiths heralded the end of pop music-- the end of something, at any rate. Which I think has been proved by the fact that most of the bands to come along claiming to be successors to The Smiths (or claimed to be so by rock critics) have been mostly terrible. Songs that join literate, catchy lyrics joined with bright, bouncy guitar-based rock couldn't be further from the lifeblood of the pop charts.

Re: ties betwixt The Bunnymen and The Doors: yes.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Jim Morrison vs. Morrissey

Thanks for all yer comments! - Well, you truely sound like some real lovely and nice people ... ;)

No I'm not comparing the musical part of it, and I'm not interested in juxtaposing Echo & the Bunnymen with the Doors, because I find the Doors more important historically etc., just like the Smiths. Yes, that's right, I'm more interested in their characters. -But you never get if you understand Morrison as this drunken wanna-be poet, or whatever. It would be like understanding Morrissey as this ascetic and gloomy poet, better known as "the Pope of Mope". What I think would be a misinterpretation - or at least there's more to it. But it's also maybe the only way to earn some cash by categorising artist and likes like that.

So yeah, what Im interestered in is comparing their role in their own time, and now. But also them being an artist - both a shy and reclusive persons, living in their own of words and images, but also mingling music, drama and poetry. Both managed to renew popular music - not just adding - in a way that is rarely seen. They were a voice of each of their generation, and more than that: life. So what I'm saying is that I think there is some quite central equalities about their characters, though I know that there is also a lot differences. Morrissey is bit more focusing on the everyday life, he a bit more if you like - and don't take me wrong - mundane. He's speaking the language of people by using everyday terms. While Morrison was focusing on everything between Stonehenge and outer space. He was speaking the language of people by using symbols.
Well, thanks again for all the comments, it's nice to hear some reflections, but don't stop now, keep on, please ...

-Cudweed
 
Re: Some thoughts on Jim Morrison vs. Morrissey

They were a voice of each of their generation, and more than that: life.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I don't think Morrison was the voice of his generation and neither was Morrissey of his. The Doors and The Smiths are probably similar in that the overwhelming passion of their fans makes them seem more important historically than they actually were. In reality it's just a very vocal minority. That isn't to say The Smiths weren't the best band of their generation-- an opinion I hold-- but placing them historically, as you seem to want to do, they are not nearly that significant.

I am speaking internationally, in the broadest context of rock and roll history here, since we're talking about L.A. and Manchester. Morrissey may indeed be the voice of his generation in England. I can't speak to that. But I doubt that he is. Actually I don't think there is a "voice of a generation" for the Eighties at all, at least not in the Bob Dylan sense. This is probably because the younger generations after Dylan were probably more disparate in their makeup. Many strong voices were heard rather than a few, offering more choices to fans-- another reason the Morrison/Morrissey comparison is a non-starter.
 
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Are we, by any chance, helping you with a homework assignment?

PS: I find them both utterly compelling for two entirely different reasons; Worm touched on it, the Apollonian and the Dionysian archetypes. I could say more, but you get the general idea. :rolleyes:
 
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