Some fans are just plain jealous of Julia's relationship with Moz!!!

Qvist

Active Member
Must be global warming. (Although something's telling me you don't believe in that much either, mr B...)

I do believe in global warming, as a matter of fact. For that matter, I believe in the usefulness of limiting air travel too.

What I don't believe in is absurd hyperbole as result of not bothering to think properly, as if moral high ground was grounds to dispense with logic and basic sense. As for the rest of your ramblings, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and not the slightest intention of googling anything in order to guess. If you have something remotely sensible to say, then kindly do so.

cheers
 

Barking

Active Member
I do believe in global warming, as a matter of fact. For that matter, I believe in the usefulness of limiting air travel too.

Well thank God for responsible Chairmen of air companies like you, Rich. What's your take on the third runway at Heathrow?

What I don't believe in is absurd hyperbole as result of not bothering to think properly, as if moral high ground was grounds to dispense with logic and basic sense. As for the rest of your ramblings, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and not the slightest intention of googling anything in order to guess. If you have something remotely sensible to say, then kindly do so.

Hmmmm. You sure about that now?

You won't regret it, or become violent?

(Because Boz Boorer and Arturo are busy now, so I'd be all isolated...:blushing: not that they'd come to my recue anyway)(well Arturo maybe...:confused:)

Ok:

-I am partly responsible for Julia's travels.

-I am partly responsible for all the fans' travels.

-And I don't like it one bit because it makes me feel guilty about global warming.


Also: dum dum tek.

Good luck trying to get that one. :) (Don't bother about the last sentence though, that's just a wink at Turkey.:straightface:)


(":crazy:") (-No I swear, only the bit about Turkey, the rest makes sense.)

(Thanks for this conversation anyway, it's interesting. It's not often I get to speak to people who don't have the internet.)
 

Qvist

Active Member
Ah well. That's three replies, a bunch of insinuations, a few inane riddles that for some reason you appear to think that I am going to try to guess the answer to and not a trace of any attempt to address the points. But then, you are barking.

I have to say I found this particularly good:

Thanks for this conversation anyway, it's interesting. It's not often I get to speak to people who don't have the internet.

Considered as a reply to a post on an internet discussion forum, that's as fine an example of total logical blackout as you could ever hope to find. Classic!
 
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Silke

New Member
Well thank God for responsible Chairmen of air companies like you, Rich. What's your take on the third runway at Heathrow?

Richard Branson appeared as an extra in the first James Bond movie with Daniel Craig, but was he also in a movie in the 80s? You could see him at the airport security check. If you didn't blink for a second that is.

The next time I'll plan a trip to the UK I'll take the train and cross the Channel via the Tunnel. So sick of flying already, particularly as the fourth to second last pilots didn't know how to land. It was more a crash landing than anything and I think they are all against flying, too, trying to get rid of passengers. Luckily the last one was a master of his profession so here is me hoping that on Friday he'll fly again. Saw an interesting statistic when I was in Scotland which said that the best way to travel enviromentwise would actually be by... coach. :eek: (Didn't say tour bus, unfortunately. ;))
 

Barking

Active Member
See, I knew you wouldn't like it.;)

But seriously. I don't know if you've ever seen a film called " Good Will Hunting"? It's about a guy who's a genius at maths. Long story short, at one point in the film, he finds himself trying to explain to a university professor a really complicated maths problem and he gets frustrated, because to him it's so obvious he feels like he's on another planet.

Well I'm crap at maths but that's more or less the same thing. It's like we live on two different planets, you and me. That's why I joke, because I don't know how to talk to you. It's like I don't speak your language.

To me it's obvious that looking after the environment we live in comes before everything else. I can't understand how with impending climate disaster anyone could run away from individual responsibility.

I am not totally devoid of logic and sense, actually. But sometimes sense and logic tell you that if you try to explain somebody why their seat-counting argument isn't relevant, you're going to fail. So I don't bother.

This debate has more to do with feeling and , you're right, morality.

It's very ironic and twisted that someone like Morrissey who once had a strong feeling of right and wrong about the way we treat animals, ended up writing a song that is interpreted by his dumbest fans as an excuse to "refuse" morality. (That's the privilege of the artist, to be able to say things and not care how they are going to be interpreted. Morrissey always says provocative things, and it's mostly to provoke one person. The only response he ever gets is not getting any birthday cake or card, by the way.)

So anyway in my case, morality is the good old-fashioned term for gut-feeling for right or wrong. For Morrissey, it was animals. For me, it's the environment as a whole. Any fool could see that it's silly to think of saving animals without protecting their habitat, but that's where logic and sense abandon Morrissey and Julia, curiously enough.

And why? Because caring about the environment and taking responsibilty contradicts their interests. In Morrissey's case, the need to tour compulsively, and in Julia's case, the need to feed off Morrissey touring. Nothing matters more to them, and so they're happy to shun morality, when, when they talk about animals, they'll feel so strongly eating or harming them is "wrong."

Strange, isn't it?

Now, why did I bother saying all that about Julia?

It's not that I care about her. I don't even care about Morrissey anymore. I've tried to make sense of what he does, and I've tried to help him see it doesn't make sense. Morrissey sent me packing, so I doubt I'd have more luck with Julia. Incidentally, don't blame Julia for what she is. It's not entirely her fault. It's mostly Morrissey's attitude to her that's made her like that. People always forget he's at the origin of things quite a lot. Not always, but quite a lot.

So, I bothered saying all that about air-travel,

to make people think about global warming.
to make people think about acting in a responsible manner. (no matter how old, young, or a crazy Morrissey fan you are :lbf:)
and finally, to let them know that I don't support people who put Morrissey before everything else, including the planet we live on.

If I've managed to make one Morrissey fan think about all that, then I will not have wasted my time.

And to conclude... I'm probably going to touch the Southpaw-grammar lovers the most.

...But of course, there's never any way of telling.:doh:

And, you're right, I'm close to Dagenham.

And...Well...Whatever I say, the moral intent is always, mmmmmmmmmmmmm- dum dum tek. For everyone and everything. Even in the heat of global warming.

PS: Silke, Jesus thinks you're ok. And more importantly, so do I.:D
 
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Qvist

Active Member
See, I knew you wouldn't like it.

But seriously. I don't know if you've ever seen a film called " Good Will Hunting"? It's about a guy who's a genius at maths. Long story short, at one point in the film, he finds himself trying to explain to a university professor a really complicated maths problem and he gets frustrated, because to him it's so obvious he feels like he's on another planet.

Well I'm crap at maths but that's more or less the same thing. It's like we live on two different planets, you and me. That's why I joke, because I don't know how to talk to you. It's like I don't speak your language.

To me it's obvious that looking after the environment we live in comes before everything else. I can't understand how with impending climate disaster anyone could run away from individual responsibility.

I am not totally devoid of logic and sense, actually. But sometimes sense and logic tell you that if you try to explain somebody why their seat-counting argument isn't relevant, you're going to fail. So I don't bother.

This debate has more to do with feeling and , you're right, morality.

It's very ironic and twisted that someone like Morrissey who once had a strong feeling of right and wrong about the way we treat animals, ended up writing a song that is interpreted by his dumbest fans as an excuse to "refuse" morality. (That's the privilege of the artist, to be able to say things and not care how they are going to be interpreted. Morrissey always says provocative things, and it's mostly to provoke one person. The only response he ever gets is not getting any birthday cake or card, by the way.)

So anyway in my case, morality is the good old-fashioned term for gut-feeling for right or wrong. For Morrissey, it was animals. For me, it's the environment as a whole. Any fool could see that it's silly to think of saving animals without protecting their habitat, but that's where logic and sense abandon Morrissey and Julia, curiously enough.

And why? Because caring about the environment and taking responsibilty contradicts their interests. In Morrissey's case, the need to tour compulsively, and in Julia's case, the need to feed off Morrissey touring. Nothing matters more to them, and so they're happy to shun morality, when, when they talk about animals, they'll feel so strongly eating or harming them is "wrong."

Strange, isn't it?

Actually, it's very simple. It is not at all about caring about the environment or not, and it's certainly not about values versus logic, or about you and your convictions, or about living on different planets. It's quite simply about understanding the thing you profess (no doubt sincerely) to care so much about, sufficiently to not make absurd statements about it.

In the year 2000, the number of air travels exceeded 1.6 billion (and no, I am not an airline executive maliciously lurking on a hostile Moz board in order to discredit the enemy - I just looked that up on the internet ;) ). If you add 100, or for that matter 1000, to that, the environmental impact of this is for all practical purposes none whatsoever. In light of which it's fairly over the hill to accuse her of submerging Holland or ruining the future of our children. Doing so is not only absurd - worse, this kind of excess trivialises and discredits the issue that you care about. Being morally right doesn't release you from the obligation of actually talking sense, least of all about the thing you are morally right about.

Now, if people like you and I decide to cut back our air travel by one flight a year, that does matter. Not in itself, but because it represents an act of will that people representing a fair portion of these 1.6 billion travels could in fact buy into and join. And if they did, that would make a difference. Julia on the other hand represents an attitude to travelling which certainly would be destructive if widely copied, but it is in fact largely irrelevant, because practically nobody has either the resources, opportunity or inclination to do so.

In short - from whatever perspective you look at it, what Julia is doing is environmentally irrelevant. If you nevertheless experience moral revulsion about her actions, feel free (for my part I don't see the point in doing so, for above reasons). But that's no reason to ascribe to it a significance beyond that that it does not possess by any stretch of imagination.

Nor is it any reason to stoop to self-defeating insinuations or frankly silly rethorical games. But I choose to believe you are probably really a nice person nonetheless, when it comes to it.

cheers
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
There was a plane in a Batman movie?
 

Raphael Lambach

Well-Known Member
Dear Friends-

I believe this to be a personal "thank-you" to Julia.

I can't help but be honestly jealous. And I know many people are terribly jealous of Julia. I have met her, and I can tell you she is very, very nice!

However, many fans feel that there is somehow a double-message and double-standard ("In the days when you were hopelessly poor, I just liked you more").

It has been reported that Julia presented Morrissey with a very expensive birthday present: a rare and expensive Wilde (valued at $15,000 or $30,000???). It has also been reported that Julia is a wealthy heiress who is very capable of following every tour stop with prime seating and backstage event passes, etc. I think it is only natural and human to be a bit jealous. I know the frequent name-checks actually provoke a bit of anger and resentment among fans.

Perhaps this is because every fan secretly wishes to shake Morrissey's hand (maybe meeting for tea or a drink?) I guess money changes everything. My feelings are mixed to say the least, but I will always secretly love Morrissey for what his music has done for me.

Oh well, enough said.

With love always-
Too shy to sign
Anonymous -- Monday October 31 2005, @07:34PM (#183772)
Anonymous call, posion pen....
 

marred

Member
Hi Julia! Yes, we understand, after being to almost every single one of his concerts it get to the point when the artist has to decide in between restraining order or friendship, Morrissey chose the latter.



Ok, we all know she's wealthy and doesn't seem to have any friends nor a life and she decided to follow Morrissey. That's ok, she's a fan. That's her option, her money and she can do whatever she wants to with it. We also know that she runs the 'True to You' website, a really poor website (I've seen better GeoCities adresses in my time) she hardly updates it, almost no info and the only good thing about it is that her 'Followee' decides to use it once in a blue moon to dish out the dirt against the Press, David T. etc...How could all of this piss the fans off? I'll bet most of the fans have families, friends, jobs, lives... all that is priceless, something that Julia's money can't buy. If she can't buy all that then she turns to following Morrissey, which is ok, we all have to fill in the gaps in our lives at some point. But then again a few fans who don't have all the above might get pissed off with her.



Well, they seem to hate her for different reasons, of course there must be a few who hate her for following Morrissey around but the majority seems to hate her for stealing people's seats and the boring mentioning of her name from her Followee, which can ruin the atmosphere of the concert. She doesn't deserve to be mentioned because she follows him, if they're friends the "mutual" appreciation should be done behind closed doors and if Morrissey does that on stage is to embarass her. That's what friends do, right?



That's because you're f***ed up. Lots of money and lots of time on your hands and no friends can only end like that. If I had that money I'd travel around to see the world, not Morrissey. I'd help people in Africa, or whatever cause I could think of, would spend my free time enjoying life and not goin' through airpoirt hassle, queues, concerts, etc... I'll bet she must be bored of seeing him so many times, it must have lost it's magic, it's not an event anymore for her. And now, she's only carry on doing it because it's too late to backdown. There's nothing else out there for her.




We will Julia, but with all the money you have you should have gone to a psychiatrist instead of posting on this forum. I know your schedule must be really tight with all the touring, stress, etc...

Julia, maybe if you had a kid your priorities would have been completely different...who knows...maybe not.


Take care.

If this is how much you can be bothered writing about someone you don't know at all I'd hate to see what you have to say about someone you actually know!?

Maybe she does lap up the adoration? I don't know. I doubt there are any of us here that wouldn't let it get to our heads at least a little if Moz considered us a friend but even if she does prance around like Queen Julia how can anyone care enough to tell her to go see a psychiatrist, help people in Africa, see the world, have a kid? You sound very angry. Should we all be doing this so we can reach your level?

There are plenty of yobbos and assholes at concerts who behave badly. Julia just happens to have a spotlight on her while the rest remain anonymous.

Go ahead call me a c#*t again :)
 

Because We Must

Junior the Member
If this is how much you can be bothered writing about someone you don't know at all

Well, you seem to be bothered writing about people "stealing" music from someone you don't know at all....

WTF Dave? You post an article about what record companies are doing to curb piracy then you post a torrent to the manics latest album so a cock like speedfreak and many others like him can steal it???

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I doubt there are any of us here that wouldn't let it get to our heads at least a little if Moz considered us a friend

I wouldn't. Why would you be friends with your idol? See, you're f***ed up.

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but even if she does prance around like Queen Julia how can anyone care enough to tell her to go see a psychiatrist, help people in Africa, see the world, have a kid? You sound very angry. Should we all be doing this so we can reach your level?


Oh, you and your double standards. You seem to care enough about what people do or don't do with their money, if they download shit for free or not, etc...But I do find your crusade against "piracy" very cute nevertheless. Let's all read:

Oh come off it bigmouth. People on this site obviously have enough money for a computer and a broadband account. I don't want to ever hear that "We can't afford it crap again. "Oh no I can't afford a tenner to buy a single to play on my $2000 CPU, CD player etc....!" A Morrissey single isn't exactly a risky investment. lame.

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There are plenty of yobbos and assholes at concerts who behave badly. Julia just happens to have a spotlight on her while the rest remain anonymous.

The spotlight should be on Morrissey, I paid to see him and to hear his voice.
But we're not far from seeing the Follower doing one of her Followee's little numbers whilst he has a change of shirts.

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Go ahead call me a c#*t again

Cunt Again!
 
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Vic Strangeways

Junior reMember Me
Well, you seem to be bothered writing about people "stealing" music from someone you don't know at all....





I wouldn't. Why would you be friends with your idol? See, you're f***ed up.






Oh, you and your double standards. But I find your crusade very cute nevertheless.



The spotlight should be on Morrissey, I paid to see him and to hear his voice.
But we're not far from seeing Julia doing one of his little numbers, whilst he has a change of shirts.



Cunt Again!

Haha, Because We Must, once again telling like it is.
 

Bigmouth

Scandinavian
The fan was obviously very rude [show decency] - but this Julia [whoever she is] seems at least as weird as Morrissey himself. I would'nt say I hate her, but a certain degree of dislike is there; probably jealousy.

everyone knows Marred is something of a a cunt :)
 
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