So many people defending Morrissey's racist statement

Theo

Active Member
The thing of it is, he was given an opportunity by The Guardian to retract his choice of words and, upon relfection, he chose to stand by his original statement.

I would've let it slide if he had said someting like, "I didn't use the right words to express what I was trying to say."

But he stands by his statement that the Chinese are a subspecies.

Furthermore, this is someone who is very sensitive about word choices and language. For example, he discussed sexist language with Joni Mitchell when he interviewed her for Rolling Stone some years back. The fact that he's so sensitive about language like that, and yet he chose, upon reflection, to stand behind calling the Chinese a "subspecies" is troubling.

What stupid views Morrissey holds isn't the biggest deal in the world, and it doesn't mean he isn't an excellent singer/songwriter. But I ain't gonna stand with him on his racist statement. I find the pathetic excuses being made for him in some of these threads so embarrassing to read that I don't think I even wanna take part in those threads anymore. It's too tiring to deal with fawning celebrity-worshippers.
 

Theo

Active Member
I'd like to add that I don't think Morrissey's comments will help one single animal in China. I don't see how you convince a country to listen to what you are saying about that country's treatment of animals by calling everyone in that country a "subspecies".
 
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Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
Just to help you, Morrissey didn't say "the Chinese are a subspecies" or call "everyone in that country a "subspecies"."

As they said on Manchester Confidential: "As usual the ex-Smiths lyricist and frontman used a provocative metaphor to highlight his obsession with animal welfare.

In what amounts to an aside in the interview Armitage writes: ‘And shockingly on the Chinese (Morrissey said): “Did you see the thing on the news about their treatment of animals and animal welfare? Absolutely horrific. You can’t help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.”

The holier-than-thou hacks at the Guardian took these forty words in the Weekend supplement and turned them into a thousand word headline article on page three of the main paper. They got a chappee at Love Music Hate Racism to be scandalised and morally affronted, and some mate of theirs who’s a music journalist to say nothing much.

The journalist, Alexandra Topping, failed to get a comment from anybody Chinese, neither a government representative nor a private individual. This was a serious and almost pathetic omission. It appears the Guardian deems it right to take offence on behalf of others - even though it can't get a quote to say those third parties are actually offended.

Yet Morrissey’s words were easy to decipher. He used extreme phrasing to highlight the specific problem of China and animal welfare. To explode it into something else, a racist comment, was cringingly small-minded and absurd: the sort of behaviour the Guardian would no doubt condemn in the News of the World."

www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/News/General/Cyril-Smith-Morrissey-and-Wayne-Rooney_12120.asp
 

Theo

Active Member
David Tseng commented on the main page about all of this, and I found his post worth reading:


I agree with what others have said about the choice of wording. Yes, he surely meant the Chinese government's policies but as the Guardian suggested, the phrasing appears to be 'deliberately provocative'. It's been argued PETA has that kind of reputation and that seems to be the route Morrissey has taken.

I see similarities with the boycott on Canada from a couple years ago announced before the Ringleaders tour a couple years ago. How would this have sounded? 'Did you see the thing on the news about their treatment of animals and animal welfare? Absolutely horrific. You can't help but feel that the Canadians are a subspecies'.

I was born and raised in the US but am of Chinese heritage and am sometimes referred to as 'Chinese'. 'Chinese' could be referring to the country but it's not the exact same as if it were 'Canadians' it also it could refer to nationality. If we take his words at face value, am I considered a subspecies? He likely thinks that for other reasons regarding the site but that is a different topic. Regardless, I never thought of stopping the site as the original poster suggested.

I agree that the animal abuse in China is certainly something to be examined but it is not a new issue. I saw a documentary around 10 years ago which still has a powerful image in my mind that showed a video of a cat being thrown in boiling water in China. The narrator made a comment during the scene which also lingered in my mind however. He said words to the effect 'some would say it is the westerners who are hypocritical in their stance on animal rights.' Cats and dogs are domesticated in the western world but our treatment of cows, pigs, chickens, etc. isn't exactly stellar. But it's easy to get upset at China because I love my pet cats and that video was so awful.

I prefer to go the more rational route, for example I am reading a book
"The China Study" [amazon.com] a co-worker recommended. The book details a long study (done in China, of all places) that has detailed evidence that an animal-based diet greatly increases likelihood of diseases.

Reading comments on this site and the Guardian site has been interesting so if the goal was to be talked about it worked. I wish it could be more about his music, but nowadays if a casual fan brings up Morrissey it is usually along the lines of '...I just read an article that he's racist'. After being so sensitive to the issue in the recent past I am surprised it happened again.
davidt * <[email protected]> -- Sunday September 05 2010, @08:25AM (#355971)

I am going to order this book "The China Study"!
 

Theo

Active Member
Just to help you, Morrissey didn't say "the Chinese are a subspecies"

Hmm, yes he did. I'll just quote you quoting Morrissey:

"You can’t help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.”

Weird. You said he didn't say the Chinese are a subspecies and then you quoted him saying he feels the Chinese are a subspecies.

They got a chappee at Love Music Hate Racism to be scandalised and morally affronted, and some mate of theirs who’s a music journalist to say nothing much.

It's funny to me that, when Morrissey bribed Love Music Hate Racism, they became a popular political organization on this forum. I recall threads titled "Love Morrissey Hate Racism", etc. The lefty types of this forum quickly embraced this group without looking much into them. I attacked that group at the time and would never want anything to do with them.

Now, other people in the forum are attacking them, too, but only because they're critical of Morrissey's Chinese statement. Love Music Hate Racism is, and always was, a stupid organization. But Morrissey kissed their asses and gave them a rather shockingly large amaount of money that could have been put to much better use. I think it's hilarious that they kicked him out after he sucked up to them with so much money. Yes, I'm quite enjoying that.

I don't care what Love Music Hate Racism has to say on this, but if I agree with them on this matter, well...I'm sure I agree with them on several other matters too. That doesn't make them a good organization. Nor does whether they are a good organization or a bad organization turn on whether they welcome Morrissey and his money.

The journalist, Alexandra Topping...

It's really boring to always see people claiming every journalist is out to get Morrissey.

...failed to get a comment from anybody Chinese, neither a government representative nor a private individual. This was a serious and almost pathetic omission. It appears the Guardian deems it right to take offence on behalf of others - even though it can't get a quote to say those third parties are actually offended.

I just posted David Tseng's comment where he seemed to take some offense.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to track down people in China about Morrissey, because I'm kinda doubtful that Morrissey is a star in China. But I could be wrong! China is a big, populous, diverse place! Which is part of the reason it was so stupid of Morrissey to make any sweeping statements about the Chinese, let alone call them a subspecies.
 
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Theo

Active Member
Says the islamophobic.

Oh, I'm sorry. I understand that many leftists are engaged in a big love affair with the Muslim religion, especially since 9/11. I don't like religion, least of all the Islamic religion. *shrug* I stand by that, proudly.

Roger Simon on Islamophobiaphobia:

Along with “progressive” (a word that should be restricted to poker), “Islamophobia” is one of the more maddening propaganda constructs of our time. Orwell could not have done better.

Of course we all know what a phobia is — an irrational fear. It comes from the Greek phobos, meaning “fear” or “morbid fear.” Common ones are acrophobia (heights) and agoraphobia (crowds).

With very minor exceptions, I have seen little irrational fear of Islam in our society. What I have seen is a lot of serious and justifiable dislike of the religion for its ideology — notably its heinous treatment of women and homosexuals and its opposition to the separation of church and state, all codified by its all-encompassing Sharia law that seeks to legislate all facets of existence while instituting a global caliphate.

Nevertheless, soi-disant liberals and progressives or whatever they want to call themselves accuse those who dislike Islam for those reasons of irrational fear. That’s like having an irrational fear of totalitarianism. Ironically, it could also be construed, according to those same progressives, as an irrational fear of their own professed liberal values.

Crazy, no? La vie a l’envers. Life upside down.

My heroine, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, on Islam and the American Left:

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BDVlT0J_qpY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BDVlT0J_qpY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]
 

Qvist

Active Member
Originally Posted by Orson Swells
Just to help you, Morrissey didn't say "the Chinese are a subspecies"

Hmm, yes he did. I'll just quote you quoting Morrissey:


Quote:
"You can’t help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.”

Weird. You said he didn't say the Chinese are a subspecies and then you quoted him saying he feels the Chinese are a subspecies

One can only suggest continuing to read the two statements until it dawns on you how they are different. Hint: The distinction between something being in a certain way and getting the feeling that something is in a certain way.

It's funny to me that, when Morrissey bribed Love Music Hate Racism,

Hang on. "Bribed"?

Oh well, I suppose we'll be getting the Obama rant next. Hey, you're just like PJ O'Rourke, only minus the humour, wit and insight.
 

Theo

Active Member
So, Kewpie, the "moderator", has decided to troll this thread, in order to send it off its rails and WAY OFF TOPIC into the issue of "Islamophobia". In case Kewpie isn't too bright, let me inform her that Islam is an ideology.

BTW, I haven't seen Kewpie's opinion on Morrissey's "the Chinese are a subspecies" statement yet. Tell me, Kewpie, would you have reprimanded someone two weeks ago had they posted messages about the Chinese being a "subspecies"? If not, why not.

The question to, you, Kewpie is: Had you read a random member of this forum post the statement "I feel the Chinese are a subspecies" two weeks ago, would you have reprimanded that posting?
 
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Theo

Active Member
One can only suggest continuing to read the two statements until it dawns on you how they are different. Hint: The distinction between something being in a certain way and getting the feeling that something is in a certain way.

Hang on. "Bribed"?

Oh well, I suppose we'll be getting the Obama rant next. Hey, you're just like PJ O'Rourke, only minus the humour, wit and insight.


Oh that hurts. Someone trying to tell me Morrissey didn't call the Chinese a "subspecies" when he was directly quoted as saying he feels the Chinese are a subspecies." LOL! Keep spinning....

And now you're gonna tell me I shouldn't find it funny that Morrissey paid Love Music Hate Racism over $43,000 the last time he got into an "Is Morrissey a racist" scandal? It wasn't a bribe for good publicity? What was it then?

And the reason I post the Obama stuff is because I know it makes people like you mad, and I feel you deserve it after all the Obama hype I saw posted in this forum for so long, and after all the exteme and deranged stuff on the previous administration I saw around here for 8 years. Well, Obama's the worst president I've ever seen, and all across America the vast majority agrees with me. Since you don't live in America, I can understand that you don't much care that the current single-party Democrat rule of Obama/Pelosi/Reid is wrecking this country. I highly doubt you much care about the well-being of America at all. Well, I care about the fate of this country for the kids coming up. There's nothing "funny" or to be "witty" about what is going on right now. And none of that is actually the topic of this thread. But I understand you wanna change the subject from Morrissey's racist statement.
 

Theo

Active Member

Wow, some people are frantic about brushing all this under the rug.

I think it's an important subect. I'll tell you why. Morrissey is increasingly a self-righteous fanatic. I'm worried about him. I think he's been isolated in PETA circles so long that it's really harmed his brain.

I first felt this when he went on the TrueToYou site to praise Animal Rights Militia terrorist acts such as sending mail bombs to the family residences of scientists working on treatments for cancer and AIDS. That put him in the same category as a deranged pastor who encourages people to blow up abortion clinics. That's a real, hardcore fanatic. That's disturbingly wacko and reveals an intolerance I cannot relate to. Can this be a decent man AT ALL who advocates such things?

And then I started thinking about what a totalitarian Morrissey can be in general. For example, threatening to sue and shut down this very web site just because it wasn't as worshipful as Julia's web site TrueToYou.

It's troubling.
 
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CrookedLittleVein

Duck. Duck. Duck. Goose.
By all means have a go at Morrissey for being unfair or for his overuse of hyperbole, but don’t reduce the impact of the word ‘racism’ any more than it already has been by the PC media.

If Morrissey is racist, it shouldn’t be difficult to prove.

Even if you accept as fact that the statement was racist, does this make Morrissey racist?

I’ve been in a mixed race relationship for 23 years and have children of mixed race. I know what racism looks like and what it feels like. It is not about off the cuff remarks, it is not about immigration, it isn’t even about sweeping generalisations (even when those generalisations are unfair). Racism is about the hatred of other races (or ethnicities) and the conviction that one’s own race (or ethnicity) is somehow superior.

I appreciate that there are subtle degrees of racism, but the people who tend to explore these notions at length tend to be the kind of people who have that luxury. It is rarely those who find themselves facing the shitty end of the stick, as they generally have more pressing concerns. They also tend to have more fitting targets at which to take aim than popular singers known for their semi-frequent outrageous remarks.

Now, I’m sure you can root out some quote explaining exactly what racism is and, lo and behold, that definition will incorporate Morrissey’s unfair exaggerations. But to what end? Who are you helping? What good are you doing? Are you fighting racism? Are you fighting Morrissey? Are you simply trying to win an argument? Or are you just enjoying yourself and, deep down, none of this really matters to you at all?

P.S. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions and I respect your right to post them here.
 

Qvist

Active Member
Oh that hurts. Someone trying to tell me Morrissey didn't call the Chinese a "subspecies" when he was directly quoted as saying he feels the Chinese are a subspecies." LOL! Keep spinning....

:lbf: You actually don't get the distinction. Great.

And now you're gonna tell me I shouldn't find it funny that Morrissey paid Love Music Hate Racism over $43,000 the last time he got into an "Is Morrissey a racist" scandal? It wasn't a bribe for good publicity? What was it then?

It was a donation, which is what you give to a cause you want to support, whereas bribe is something you covertly and illegally give someone in order to get something you're not entitled to and would not otherwise get. But of course, I was reckoning without the fact that you approach language with all the razor-sharp discrimination of a ten megaton warhead.

And the reason I post the Obama stuff is because I know it makes people like you mad, and I feel you deserve it after all the Obama hype I saw posted in this forum for so long, and after all the exteme and deranged stuff on the previous administration I saw around here for 8 years. Well, Obama's the worst president I've ever seen, and all across America the vast majority agrees with me. Since you don't live in America, I can understand that you don't much care that the current single-party Democrat rule of Obama/Pelosi/Reid is wrecking this country. I highly doubt you much care about the well-being of America at all. Well, I care about the fate of this country for the kids coming up. There's nothing "funny" or to be "witty" about what is going on right now. And none of that is actually the topic of this thread. But I understand you wanna change the subject from Morrissey's racist statement.

Just couldn't resist the temptation, could you.
 

Theo

Active Member
So, Kewpie, the "moderator", has decided to troll this thread, in order to send it off its rails and WAY OFF TOPIC into the issue of "Islamophobia". In case Kewpie isn't too bright, let me inform her that Islam is an ideology.

BTW, I haven't seen Kewpie's opinion on Morrissey's "the Chinese are a subspecies" statement yet. Tell me, Kewpie, would you have reprimanded someone two weeks ago had they posted messages about the Chinese being a "subspecies"? If not, why not.

The question to, you, Kewpie is: Had you read a random member of this forum post the statement "I feel the Chinese are a subspecies" two weeks ago, would you have reprimanded that posting?

I'd like an answer from Kewpie on this one. She was quick to reply when someone was calling me some idiotic "Islamophobic" label in order to troll me. Now she is acting like she didn't see my question.

Kewpie: If, two weeks ago, I had posted what Morrissey said in the Guardian, I do believe I'd get a PM and reprimand from UncleSkinny that would read something like this:

You can dress it up however you like, and I'm sure you will, but that was a racist post. We don't like racist posts here, they contravene the TOS, so take a time-out.

That's a PM I once got for a post that wasn't actually racist at all, but was merely quoting the movie "Jackie Brown" in good humor.

So, I wouldn't have gotten such a PM and reprimand had I posted what Morrissey said? Be honest.

In any case, Kewpie should stop calling me an "Islamophobic" just because I don't like religion and especially don't like Islamic terrorism and Islamic fundamentalist jihad. But even if she doesn't stop doing that, as a mod she should stop trolling my threads to make them about some other topic just because she is out to get me. I thought I began this thread with some sound, reasonable points, but thanks to the trolls (including one of the mods) it has now been ruined. No wonder it's called SoLow.
 
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