Smashing Pumpkins Member Reveals Why Morrissey Lost ‘Grandeur’ Of Smiths - Alternative Nation

Smashing Pumpkins Member Reveals Why Morrissey Lost ‘Grandeur’ Of Smiths - Alternative Nation

Mr. Chamberlin (drummer) offers an explanation of sorts...

“We knew how we wanted to make ourselves feel. That’s a great reference point, I think Mike Joyce and the way he played with the Smiths, was just an incredible inspiration to me, just because of the sensitivity and power that he played with, and the grandeur that he played with, that I think Morrissey was never able to capture later. Those early Smiths records were face melting, just in the production. Nirvana was kind of the punk rock version of that.”



The brief article then segues in to a recap of recent live events with no real attempt at cogency.
Not the best of writing.
April 19th, 2017:
http://www.alternativenation.net/smashing-pumpkins-morrissey-lost-grandeur-of-smiths/
Regards,
FWD.
 
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Comments

A

Anonymous

Guest
True, I don't like the Smashing Pumpkins in general. Or detail.
But I can hear they had a good drummer, just as Mike Joyce is a good drummer.
I just don't like the way the word grandeur being used and as if Moz lost that.
I have a problem with a drummer saying that.
If there is an artist embodying the word grandeur it is Moz.
In style, gesture and presentation.
It is a part of music too and not as unimportant as the "real" musicians seem to think.
I agree that it's just an odd comment to make. To put the grandeur of the smiths and its absence from morrisseys solo music, which I don't agree with, as coming down to the drums. I do like the smashing pumpkins though. Maybe it has something to do with being in my teens when the music was released but there first three albums are great, next two are good and the music release after they reunited has been mixed to meh. Oceania was good but the rest just seems to show that corgan does not really want to make loud guitar music any more. His electronic music I don't care for
 

Ketamine Sun

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"The Smiths' sound rockets with meteroic progression: bomb-burst drumming, explosive chords, combative basslines, and over it all I am as free as a hawk to paint the canvas as I wish. It is a gift from Jesus."

Morrissey, Autobiography.
yes, I agree:thumb:, don't understand your reply to me otherwise.
 

Ketamine Sun

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Oh quit hating on Joyce because of the court stuff. Smoke a joint (or have a couple of drinks) and listen to Rank. He did a helluva good job after the first album.
:lbf: think I'll need something a little stronger to make me believe that it was because of Joyce that made those Smiths records great.

Maybe some heroin will change my mind, seems to have worked for Chamberlin. ;)
 

Ketamine Sun

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It can't reasonably be just there. One of the major rifts the Pumkins had, was that Billy Corgan insisted on playing all the instruments in the studio. The other band members were there just to play live.

Billy played all the instruments in the studio except...the drums.

If I played drums well enough, I would rather play like 1st) Chamberlin
2) Walker 3) the guy from Cake....While not the 3 best drummers alive, I'd love to be able to play like them.
it's pretty amazing actually that he recorded most of the instruments himself(except drums)and the songs still sound like a band playing together in a room, the recording/production by Butch Vig and Alan Moulder on Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are hard to beat on those two records, sonically rich and rewarding to listen to.

I couldn't listen to them when these were released, I just discovered them in recent years, Billy's voice took me a while to get use to, actually an a original voice, at least his own.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
:lbf: think I'll need something a little stronger to make me believe that it was because of Joyce that made those Smiths records great.

Maybe some heroin will change my mind, seems to have worked for Chamberlin. ;)
You absolutely MUST give credit where it is due. The rhythm section of the smiths was tighter than a hipster's pants. Andy was always in the pocket, and Mike provided a crisp reliable beat. Those two could groove in ways that other bands of the time simply couldn't. Think Rubber Ring, Barbarism, etc. They were some funky fellows!

If only my lawnmower could sound like that. I'd quit my night job of slinging drinks and form a band, and maybe my feet wouldn't hurt so much!
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
:lbf: think I'll need something a little stronger to make me believe that it was because of Joyce that made those Smiths records great.

Maybe some heroin will change my mind, seems to have worked for Chamberlin. ;)
No Ketamine, heroin is just a downer, a relaxer, a painkiller. A blocker of any emotional feeling.
You would need to do crack or crystal meth to kill enough braincells for believing that.
For the love of Moz, please don't. :tears:
 

Ketamine Sun

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You absolutely MUST give credit where it is due. The rhythm section of the smiths was tighter than a hipster's pants. Andy was always in the pocket, and Mike provided a crisp reliable beat. Those two could groove in ways that other bands of the time simply couldn't. Think Rubber Ring, Barbarism, etc. They were some funky fellows!

If only my lawnmower could sound like that. I'd quit my night job of slinging drinks and form a band, and maybe my feet wouldn't hurt so much!
I give credit. Though it would have been interesting if at some point Joyce was replaced during the Smiths, just to have an idea of how it could have sounded for better or worse.

I've said it before, but out of the four members if any were replaced, I feel that Joyce's departure would probably not have been that missed as compared to what the other three bring to the chemistry of the band. Another drummer could play those songs and yes it would have sounded different, but most likely wouldn't have taken away from the power of those songs. Now if any of the other three members were replaced, I don't think any replacement could really bring the same contribution, especially Marr & Morrissey. Though Joyce was perfect for them and what they needed at the time.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
When Andy got kicked out of the smiths did they play any shows. Is there a recording of that
 

Ketamine Sun

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When Andy got kicked out of the smiths did they play any shows. Is there a recording of that
yes, they did a few shows with Bootsy Collins on bass, though Morrissey refuses to release the tapes, he says they weren't funky enough.
 
J

Judge Judy

Guest
Random "celebrity" - sort of, I guess - mentions Morrissey, gets more attention than he has in years.

 

SeniorLife

Those who don't know, don't know, they don't know.
..but out of the four members if any were replaced, I feel that Joyce's departure would probably not have been that missed as compared to what the other three bring to the chemistry of the band..

Spot on. You could have left out the probably.
 
F

Fan girl

Guest
Like many other bands, I feel that the Pumpkins have become irrelevant. Moz has remained relevant because of his witticisms and dark humor. So the lost grandeur comment is what we Yanks refer to as sour grapes.
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
Like many other bands, I feel that the Pumpkins have become irrelevant. Moz has remained relevant because of his witticisms and dark humor. So the lost grandeur comment is what we Yanks refer to as sour grapes.
Morrissey has remained relevant to his fan base, but outside of that I don't think he's viewed as being all that relevant. I'd be shocked if Jimmy Chamberlin viewed Morrissey as being more relevant than the Smashing Pumpkins. So I doubt what he expressed was borne out of sour grapes. He's certainly not alone in believing that The Smiths musically were superior to Morrissey's solo work. Not saying any of this as a hater - I think Morrissey's solo work has plenty of brilliant moments.
 
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Ketamine Sun

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Morrissey has remained relevant to his fan base, but outside of that I don't think he's viewed as being all that relevant. I'd be shocked if Jimmy Chamberlin viewed Morrissey as being more relevant than the Smashing Pumpkins. So I doubt what he expressed was borne out of sour grapes. He's certainly not alone in believing that The Smiths musically were superior to Morrissey's solo work. Not saying any of this as a hater - I think Morrissey's solo work has plenty of brilliant moments.
So strange when this word 'relevant' comes up. Does art (bad or good) need to be relevant to anyone or thing in order to judge it's worth? I mean, do you really care what the world thinks about your record collection when you're alone enjoying it ?
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
So strange when this word 'relevant' comes up. Does art (bad or good) need to be relevant to anyone or thing in order to judge it's worth? I mean, do you really care what the world thinks about your record collection when you're alone enjoying it ?
I agree with you. Was just responding to a comment that somehow Jimmy Chamberlin's comments were borne out of jealousy because he knew SP were less 'relevant' than Morrissey. By what barometer would relevancy be measured? Record sales, ticket sales, etc.? It's an absurd comparison.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey has remained relevant to his fan base, but outside of that I don't think he's viewed as being all that relevant. I'd be shocked if Jimmy Chamberlin viewed Morrissey as being more relevant than the Smashing Pumpkins. So I doubt what he expressed was borne out of sour grapes. He's certainly not alone in believing that The Smiths musically were superior to Morrissey's solo work. Not saying any of this as a hater - I think Morrissey's solo work has plenty of brilliant moments.
I think morrissey is still pretty relevant as a public figure and as a cultural icon. I mean he still gets written about just for commenting on something while the last thing I read about corgan was about him being involved in wrestling and I consider myself a fan (I'm sitting here looking at my aeroplane flies high box right now). I would also say that morrissey solo and the smiths are frequently cited and relevant to a lot of artists/musicians then and now which will help continue his relevancy. I'm not sure I could say that about the pumpkins or corgan at the moment. They seem to be a band remembered as being great in there time/decade, a great alt rock band during the alt rock renaissance, while morrissey has been considered great in multiple decades surviving the decline of the indie new wave scene he started in. This could just be a lull in the pumpkins camp though only time will tell I guess. I agree that that many think the smiths musically superior to solo, myself included, even if they also concur that solo has had some great moments, myself obviously included, but I think it's the first time it's been proclaimed that this superiority is down to the drums though. That's the weird part with this statement. I would almost believe chamberlain knows of his dislike of Joyce and is just publically trolling him
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
I think morrissey is still pretty relevant as a public figure and as a cultural icon. I mean he still gets written about just for commenting on something while the last thing I read about corgan was about him being involved in wrestling and I consider myself a fan (I'm sitting here looking at my aeroplane flies high box right now). I would also say that morrissey solo and the smiths are frequently cited and relevant to a lot of artists/musicians then and now which will help continue his relevancy. I'm not sure I could say that about the pumpkins or corgan at the moment. They seem to be a band remembered as being great in there time/decade, a great alt rock band during the alt rock renaissance, while morrissey has been considered great in multiple decades surviving the decline of the indie new wave scene he started in. This could just be a lull in the pumpkins camp though only time will tell I guess. I agree that that many think the smiths musically superior to solo, myself included, even if they also concur that solo has had some great moments, myself obviously included, but I think it's the first time it's been proclaimed that this superiority is down to the drums though. That's the weird part with this statement. I would almost believe chamberlain knows of his dislike of Joyce and is just publically trolling him
Very good points and it's proof that this community can exist without the unnecessary vitriol (from an Anonymous poster nonetheless).

I, too, thought it bizarre that he would attribute the Smiths greatness solely to the drumming. Trolling Joyce? Didn't think of that, but maybe?
 
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g23

Always crashing in the same car
So strange when this word 'relevant' comes up. Does art (bad or good) need to be relevant to anyone or thing in order to judge it's worth? I mean, do you really care what the world thinks about your record collection when you're alone enjoying it ?
Exactly. As I once said to my record store clerk when I bought a Bay City Rollers best of-
"Hey, music can be like masturbation. I enjoy it a lot more without you watching and judging me."
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Very good points and it's proof that this community can exist without the unnecessary vitriol (from an Anonymous poster nonetheless).

I, too, thought it bizarre that he would attribute the Smiths greatness solely to the drumming. Trolling Joyce? Didn't think of that, but maybe?
No sorry I meant he was trolling morrissey as morrissey clearly dislikes Joyce and if you wanted to piss off morrissey then telling him his bands greatness was down to mike would probably do it
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Morrissey has remained relevant to his fan base, but outside of that I don't think he's viewed as being all that relevant. I'd be shocked if Jimmy Chamberlin viewed Morrissey as being more relevant than the Smashing Pumpkins. So I doubt what he expressed was borne out of sour grapes. . Not saying any of this as a hater - I think Morrissey's solo work has plenty of brilliant moments.
Morrissey has remained relevant to his fan base, but outside of that I don't think he's viewed as being all that relevant. I'd be shocked if Jimmy Chamberlin viewed Morrissey as being more relevant than the Smashing Pumpkins. So I doubt what he expressed was borne out of sour grapes. He's certainly not alone in believing that The Smiths musically were superior to Morrissey's solo work. Not saying any of this as a hater - I think Morrissey's solo work has plenty of brilliant moments.
" He's certainly not alone in believing that The Smiths musically were superior to Morrissey's solo work. "
But he didn't say that.

He said Moz lost the grandeur of The Smiths in his solo career.
While in my opinion it became bigger and so much more evident.
This isn't about the music itself, The Smiths or Moz solo. They are both great.
It's about the grandeur.

I now think the comment was more due to the opinion of a drummer regarding the percussionist side of the music in which he expressed his admire for Mike Joyce. Rightly so.

And somewhat neglecting some of the good drummers Moz had during his solo career. As if they didn't contribute or were more or less responsible for the loss of grandeur.

Spencer Cobrin became a great drummer, maybe not that great in the beginning but during Southpaw times and US tour he was fucking brilliant.
Same goes for Matt Walker.
Great drummer.
For the rest I totally agree with you!
Cheers! :thumb:
 

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