Should Morrissey and Richard Ashcroft just give it up, already? - Popmatters.com

Should Morrissey and Richard Ashcroft Just Give It Up, Already? - PopMatters
By David Selsby

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The biggest problem with being a faded genius is that nothing he or she ever produces again can be analysed, critiqued, or appreciated in a vacuum. It all comes in the wake of their prior transcendental music.

Excerpt:

"But the music that Morrissey and Ashcroft are turning out now is so bad that we clearly hear they have nothing left to say in the medium. Writing perhaps? Sure. Large swaths of Morrissey's memoir, Autobiography (Putnam 2013) were delightful. But not in rock 'n' roll or pop or whatever you'd like to call it. Morrissey and Richard Ashcroft have said everything of import on record that they were ever going to say. Accordingly, I've never understood the rock fan that likes the entire corpus of a particular musician or band. Actually, I understand it, but I'm irked by the lack of honesty. Morrissey has developed a legendary following. His fans will buy whatever he produces, and if he's touring in a region where his following is strong, they will turn out in droves time and time again to support him. That's fine. In fact, it's very kind. But if you can't tell the difference between "Rusholme Ruffians" and "Stay in Bed All Day", then you never understood the man's genius."

Regards,
FWD.
 
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reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I think yes, Neil Young should have given it up at least 18 years ago (or 50). Bowie did give up until cancer brought him the muse. At least Morrissey doesn't have to worry about The Smiths anymore, as much as being held up alongside his recent statements. He's become a curiosity to most people anyway, more sideshow than songsmith. I'm curious how much success he'd have if he did another US tour. I imagine we may be past the grand opera houses and back into the stinky rock clubs at this point.
I actually asked should Bowie have given up, meaning years before the cancer took him. As for Neil, 'Greendale' was 16 years ago and I think that's one of his best albums, ever. He did great eclectic stuff right through the 80s ('Life' and 'Landing on Water' for example) and nobody can question his 90's output with Crazy Horse. Even right now he's still coming up with interesting goods ('The Visitor' and 'Peace Trail' albums). Why stop?
With Morrissey, especially after his recent 'comments' you might find he's gained a whole new fanbase both in the UK and US...
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
I actually asked should Bowie have given up, meaning years before the cancer took him. As for Neil, 'Greendale' was 16 years ago and I think that's one of his best albums, ever. He did great eclectic stuff right through the 80s ('Life' and 'Landing on Water' for example) and nobody can question his 90's output with Crazy Horse. Even right now he's still coming up with interesting goods ('The Visitor' and 'Peace Trail' albums). Why stop?
With Morrissey, especially after his recent 'comments' you might find he's gained a whole new fanbase both in the UK and US...
I imagine he has found a new fanbase, but the great thing is, most of them would be too poor to buy the tickets.
Disadvantage often breeds the sort of thinking he's espousing these days, at least in America, but I imagine it's no different across the pond.

Bowie, I'm torn on, because I have a deep respect for the man. But he likely should have hung it up in the 90s.
The Next Day and Blackstar were a great end, and seemingly very calculated. Everything he did was calculated, but still- He only had a smattering of good songs on any album for the later part of his career, and as grateful as I was to see him on the Outside and Reality tours, I only had one adjective for the latter show, and it was "Vegas-y"

I was just being a turd about Neil Young though. I've never cared for his voice.

Editing to add that Scary Monsters is the most recent (recent, lol) Bowie album I listen to
all the way through, and that's only a little over 10 years into his career.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I imagine he has found a new fanbase, but the great thing is, most of them would be too poor to buy the tickets.
Disadvantage often breeds the sort of thinking he's espousing these days, at least in America, but I imagine it's no different across the pond.

Bowie, I'm torn on, because I have a deep respect for the man. But he likely should have hung it up in the 90s.
The Next Day and Blackstar were a great end, and seemingly very calculated. Everything he did was calculated, but still- He only had a smattering of good songs on any album for the later part of his career, and as grateful as I was to see him on the Outside and Reality tours, I only had one adjective for the latter show, and it was "Vegas-y"

I was just being a turd about Neil Young though. I've never cared for his voice.

Editing to add that Scary Monsters is the most recent (recent, lol) Bowie album I listen to
all the way through, and that's only a little over 10 years into his career.
Okay, ha ha. Sounds like you have respect for Bowie but don't think much of his music. Okay. And you basically dislike Neil Young. That's fair enough, each to their own. But saying Moz's new potential fanbase (people with open minds) probably won't be able to afford his tickets is not a little condescending, no?
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
Okay, ha ha. Sounds like you have respect for Bowie but don't think much of his music. Okay. And you basically dislike Neil Young. That's fair enough, each to their own. But saying Moz's new potential fanbase (people with open minds) probably won't be able to afford his tickets is not a little condescending, no?
I think highly of his music. He was just guilty of putting a lot of filler in his albums from 1981? onward.
If I'm being condescending to a bunch of people who would chant "Build that wall! Build that wall!"
I can live with that. And they probably wouldn't know what condescending means anyway.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
I think highly of his music. He was just guilty of putting a lot of filler in his albums from 1981? onward.
If I'm being condescending to a bunch of people who would chant "Build that wall! Build that wall!"
I can live with that. And they probably wouldn't know what condescending means anyway.
I don't get it. What's wrong with building a wall? Don't you have a wall around your garden? Isn't your house made of walls so you can sleep peacefully at night? Walls keep the scumbags out!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Walls to keep the Riff Raff. A couple of wild dogs as well.

Its a free country (so far lol) so if Johnny wants to put out a stream of records that nobody listens to, not even this dork, he is within his rights to. We haven't gone all out Allah as of yet.:turban:
He has a new single, the Tracers, out any day that has a Sylvester Stallone movie vibe to it. It is on his forthcoming album which is about a Comet.
Moz solo stuff is in some ways superior to the Smiths. His singing is much more nuanced, as he could take his time in delivering the lyrics and didn't have to speed up to keep pace with the protopost punk rock out of tune backings.:thumb:

This is the kind of dork who rides a moped at 40 years old, wearing a big helmet on the sidewalk.
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
I'm curious how much success he'd have if he did another US tour. I imagine we may be past the grand opera houses and back into the stinky rock clubs at this point.

I also wonder about that. I found it telling when he mentioned how great the UK/Mexico tour was but no mention at all of the US tour. Personally, I would not see him at a large venue again. I was at night 1 at the Hollywood Bowl. Apart from the awful setlist - 8 songs from LIHS and it wasn't even out yet - it just doesn't suit him anymore (granted the feedback on night 2 seemed better). We'll see what the future holds for touring, but I'm definitely not going to pay top dollar for a dull and self-indulgent setlist with no consideration for the audience - regardless of the venue.
 
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g23

Always crashing in the same car
I don't get it. What's wrong with building a wall? Don't you have a wall around your garden? Isn't your house made of walls so you can sleep peacefully at night? Walls keep the scumbags out!
I actually don't have a wall around my garden. More a very low fence.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
I also wonder about that. I found it telling when he mentioned how great the UK/Mexico tour was but no mention at all of the US tour. Personally, I would not see him at a large venue again. I was at night 1 at the Hollywood Bowl. Apart from the awful setlist - 8 songs from LIHS and it wasn't even out yet - it just doesn't suit him anymore (granted the feedback on night 2 seemed better). We'll see what the future holds for touring, but I'm definitely not going to pay top dollar for a dull and self-indulgent setlist with no consideration for the audience - regardless of the venue.
I can't deal with big venues anymore. If I do, I always end up leaving early because I don't want to be at a standstill with 10,000 other people all trying to leave at the same time.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If he comes around again I for one will try and see him as I’ve really enjoyed the last two shows in d.c. as for traffic I just wait and hang out with the people I came with. I’m not in any rush and have nowhere to be and really do t wanna right to get out. It usually takes the same amount of time and I don’t end up super frustrated screaming at cars
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I've seen Morrissey all over and in every kind of venue from a small theatre to a giant field over his whole solo career. I don't know if I've just been unlucky but most were quite flat, the small theatre one the worst where he marched off stage complaining about the sound. It's a bit like modern football, I tend to enjoy the social aspect of his shows more than the actual event. If he rocks up at a good local(ish) venue I'd probably go, otherwise no.
 

Try Anything Twice

Consultant to the World
I imagine he has found a new fanbase, but the great thing is, most of them would be too poor to buy the tickets.
Disadvantage often breeds the sort of thinking he's espousing these days, at least in America, but I imagine it's no different across the pond.

Bowie, I'm torn on, because I have a deep respect for the man. But he likely should have hung it up in the 90s.
The Next Day and Blackstar were a great end, and seemingly very calculated. Everything he did was calculated, but still- He only had a smattering of good songs on any album for the later part of his career, and as grateful as I was to see him on the Outside and Reality tours, I only had one adjective for the latter show, and it was "Vegas-y"

I was just being a turd about Neil Young though. I've never cared for his voice.

Editing to add that Scary Monsters is the most recent (recent, lol) Bowie album I listen to
all the way through, and that's only a little over 10 years into his career.

Interesting point. I never thought about it before but I stopped at Scary Monsters, too. Was fine with him doing his thing but it wasn’t that interesting to me after that.
 

Eldritch

Well-Known Member
It's a selfish desire to wish that your favourite artist should have quit before he went crap in your estimation. The world is full of music journalists and writers who should have given up long ago, but nobody says it to them, because so few people care. This is indeed a badly-written article, which has trouble spelling even the Smiths song titles right (it's not Cemetery Gates, you dolt).

I personally am glad that Morrissey still makes music, even though his output has been very patchy since Vauxhall & I. I agree with the criticism of ROT: the comeback boost of YATQ made him complacent and boy does that show. The baffling early five star reviews of the album clouded the matter even further. The lyrics of World Peace and LIHS have varied from the clueless to uninspired, but there are gems like Mountjoy, Forgive Someone, Spent The Day In Bed and Home Is A ? among the dross. And there are good songs beautifully sung like Staircase and Israel, even when the lyrics are below par.

But he definitely should stop giving interviews. Even fake ones in which he basically interviews himself like the one on his own website. Those definitely make me and many other love him less.
 

celibate

Forever Ill
I'm wondering why the writer of this article choose Richard Ashcroft , nothing against him but IMHO is fom another level than Morrissey
 
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marred

Member
Was this guy after an actual answer to this ridiculous question? It's a no from me.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I am one of the biggest Smiths and Morrissey fans on planet earth and I will say that things like "Your Arsenal", I enjoy as much as The Smiths records. But in the last few years, we have to be honest with ourselves. It hit me hard seeing Johnny Marr playing Bigmouth Strikes Again and There Is A Light That Never Goes Out Live. The tone and skill were so far above and beyond when Morrissey's band plays them live, I feel bad for Morrissey. While we'd prefer if Morrissey sang the songs over Johnny, Johnny's singing isn't bad compared to the complete butchering Morrissey's band does on "How Soon Is Now?"

You may say "HEY! I like when he does How Soon Is Now!" But look, you like that Morrissey is singing it. You tolerate the music behind him because perhaps you haven't seen Johnny do it live.

I'm not saying The Smith should get back together. At all. I think once the band member sues the other and tries to continually bleed him dry, that isn't something you should get over.

But let me say this. Even as one of the biggest Moz fans... one who owns Low In High School on Green, Blue, Orange and yellow vinyl, on cassette and CD and hi-res HD Tracks, it's embarrassing when Morrissey does "The Bullfighter Dies" Live. I head straight for the pisser. And "World Peace Is None Of Your Business" as a song (not the album, the song), Morrissey calls Bowie's Lazarus tuneless... "World Peace..." is tuneless.

I love most of Morrissey's work and I think this journalist is just lonely and attention-grabbing... but we should be honest about Morrissey's newer music. "The Girl from Tel Aviv Who Wouldn't Kneel"? Christ almighty. Did that make you feel the way you felt when you first heard "The More You Ignore Me..."? Doubt it.
 

William Blake's Seven

Active Member
I love most of Morrissey's work and I think this journalist is just lonely and attention-grabbing... but we should be honest about Morrissey's newer music. "The Girl from Tel Aviv Who Wouldn't Kneel"? Christ almighty. Did that make you feel the way you felt when you first heard "The More You Ignore Me..."? Doubt it.

I love The Girl from Tel Aviv. I was driving home from a crap day at work last week, listening to Low in High School, when Morrissey sang "All of my friends are in trouble, they're sorry, they're sick and they know. All of my friends are in trouble, there's no need to go into that now." I grinned from ear to ear. Everything about that brief moment of pop -- lyric, music, production, vocal, tone -- is perfect.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
They could all retire......but there are no new bands of their equal. Rock and Roll is going the way of the Dodo and will probably be dead in it's current form in 20 yrs.

I agree. Heard "White flag" again the other day and thought, Gawd, what a whingeing pile of crap. Time for that bird to disappear. Oh and take the music of the devil with you!
 

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