Shirley Manson (Garbage) Attacks Morrissey For Defending K.Spacey & H.Weinstein - Alternative Nation

Iconic 90’s Rock Singer Attacks Morrissey For Defending Kevin Spacey & Harvey Weinstein - Alternative Nation
By Brett Buchanan - Nov 19, 2017.

Excerpt:

"Garbage frontwoman Shirley Manson has reacted to former Smiths frontman Morrissey defending Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein following the sexual assault allegations against the two Hollywood titans.

Manson tweeted, “Morrissey has lost the f***ing plot. Weinstein + Spacey unfairly attacked? For rape, sexual abuse+coercion etc. f*** U Morrissey! f*** YOU.”"



Regards,
FWD


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Yeah, I'd be careful about using the beauty of 19th-Century poetry as rationale for statutory rape!

Wow - you are dense...From your point of view we would stop teaching Romeo and Juliet and throw away Shakespeare's Sonnets for encouraging socially unacceptable desires. Juliet was, after all, 13 and was a victim of statutory rape by today's standards.
 
yep. Just sometimes think it would be a good idea to send society to prison. Or is society already a prison ? and the very thing that should be blamed ? It may have stopped Manson from doing more crimes, but did sending him to prison change something within the fabric of society that would not again create another individual that would cause great harm and death to others?



'We're born in a prison
Raised in a prison
Sent to a prison called school

We cry in a prison
We love in a prison
We dream in a prison like fools

Wood becomes a flute when it's loved
Reach for yourself and your battered mates
Mirror becomes a razor when it's broken
Look in the mirror and see your shattered fate ...'

Society is a prison, slavery is very much alive and kicking but under a different name, and the best part of the day is when you get to stop making license plates or working in the commissary, and go out to the yard and breathe in the fresh air in the sunshine.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.
 
Wow - you are dense...From your point of view we would stop teaching Romeo and Juliet and throw away Shakespeare's Sonnets for encouraging socially unacceptable desires. Juliet was, after all, 13 and was a victim of statutory rape by today's standards.
Ok "Anonymous" (clever name!) , I'm not sure if your a troll or just incredibly thick, but I'll try to respond to your feeble posts.

First, please don't get you panties in a bunch; no one said anything about banning books! Of course, I'm all for teaching The Bard and The Good Gray Poet. And let's throw in Death in Venice and Lolita too while we're at it. There is nothing wrong with great literature, even literature about being attracted to youths! Hell, I'm even for teaching Morrissey's friend Allen Ginsberg, and he was a member of NAMBLA!

My point was simply that no one should be excusing Morrissey in his awful defense of Kevin Spacey based on what the Greeks did or what Walt Whitman thought about the beauty of young boys!
 
Ok "Anonymous" (clever name!) , I'm not sure if your a troll or just incredibly thick, but I'll try to respond to your feeble posts.

First, please don't get you panties in a bunch; no one said anything about banning books! Of course, I'm all for teaching The Bard and The Good Gray Poet. And let's throw in Death in Venice and Lolita too while we're at it. There is nothing wrong with great literature, even literature about being attracted to youths! Hell, I'm even for teaching Morrissey's friend Allen Ginsberg, and he was a member of NAMBLA!

My point was simply that no one should be excusing Morrissey in his awful defense of Kevin Spacey based on what the Greeks did or what Walt Whitman thought about the beauty of young boys!

'I'm even for teaching Morrissey's friend Allen Ginsberg,'

i don't think they were friends. Please be careful what you write, because people seem to believe everything they read on the internet. As been shown by M's answers being taken out of context.

'no one should be excusing Morrissey in his awful defense of Kevin Spacey' Agree.

M has definitely been self-misinformed about Spacey, because of all the other accusers who have come forward.

''no one should be excusing Morrissey in his awful defense of Kevin Spacey'

Agree, but ... he also said, 'Of course, there are extreme cases, rape is disgusting, every physical attack is repulsive.

and... 'I hate rape. I hate attacks. I hate sexual situations that are forced on someone.'

And so, he is making it clear he defends no one that forces themselves on another in the form of a sexual attack, and that includes Spacey and Weinstein.

And he didn't blame the parents or the 14 year old Rapp. He criticized the parents. And he criticized by wondering why Rapp didn't have better judgement, as M explained he himself at the age of 14 was aware enough not to put himself in that same situation.
Then again, I'm not sure just how informed M is on this story to be honest. Because I don't understand why he would say..'That's why it does not sound very credible to me. It seems to me Spacey has been unnecessarily attacked.'
 
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SPIEGEL: Since we're in Hollywood, have you followed the debates about Harvey Weinstein , Kevin Spacey and #MeToo ?

Morrissey: All at once everyone is guilty. Anyone who has ever said to someone else, "I like you," is suddenly being charged with sexual harassment. You have to put these things in the right relations. If I can not tell anyone that I like him, how should he ever know?....Of course, there are extreme cases, rape is disgusting, every physical attack is repulsive. But we have to see it in relative terms. Otherwise, every person on this planet is guilty. We can not permanently decide from above what we are allowed to do and what we can not do. Because then we are all trapped. Some people are very awkward when it comes to romance anyway. They do not know what to do and then their behavior is aggressive.

Morrissey is trivialising sexual predation that doesn't lead to violent physical rape. His disgust at violent rape is used only to try and defuse the allegations against Weinstein and Spacey. He also seems to be suggesting that his own romantic clumsiness could potentially open him up to harassment charges. If he really thinks saying (or singing!) 'I Like You' is in any way similar to the behaviour alleged against Weinstein and Spacey, he needs counselling. However, even in this warped view of things, romantic ineptitude isn't a reason to absolve someone if 'their behaviour is aggressive'.

He also appears deeply confused about the purpose of legal restrictions on sexual behaviour when he claims 'we can not permanently decide from above what we are allowed to do and what we can not do'. Society explicitly mandates this through legal restrictions on sexual behaviour. Why is Morrissey railing against the ongoing evolution of a legal code of sexual decency in society? On what basis did he then complain of sexual assault at LAX airport by a TSA security guard? If he demands a zero tolerance of sexual assault in his life whilst he travels to/from his gigs, why does he have issues with others who have complained of sexual assault by Spacey and Weinstein whilst in employment-related environments? The hypocrisy is staggering.

Plot twist: Turns out BrummieBoy was right about Morrissey all along!
 
'I'm even for teaching Morrissey's friend Allen Ginsberg,'

i don't think they were friends. Please be careful what you write, because people seem to believe everything they read on the internet. As been shown by M's answers being taken out of context.

Sorry Keta-Su, I forget that you take everything literally. I meant that Morrissey obviously loves the Beat writers and had made this clear in numerous ways on numerous occasions. His references to Ginsberg in "NCDD" are an example:

"Neal Cassady drops dead
And Allen Ginsberg’s tears shampoo his beard
Neal Cassady drops dead
And Allen Ginsberg’s lips tighten and thin
Neal Cassady drops dead
And Allen Ginsberg’s hosed down in a barn
Neal Cassady drops dead
And Allen Ginsberg’s howl becomes a growl"
 
What a drama queen. Modern day witch hunters. How does it feel to be the thing you have abhorred your whole life?

You know what I have abhorred my whole life and you think it is... what exactly?
 
What about Walt Whitman's 'victims'? He liked a boy or two as well by all accounts...Cos all 'children' are victims aren't they and all 'adults' are abusers?

We probably don't really want to go there because then you get into "What about Oscar Wilde?"

But being below the age of consent isn't necessarily what makes a person a victim.
 
I really don't know what everyone is getting so het up about. Morrissey made it pretty clear, within this whole Hollywood sex scandal firestorm there are going to be some accusers that are being very truthful and there are going to be some that will use the current climate to settle some scores (ie. they will lie or exaggerate the level of 'abuse' they suffered.)

Take Jeremy Piven, to be honest I was not surprised when his name got dragged into it, but then (as this was much to my surprise) he just went out and passed a lie detector to denying all claims of harassment. I understand lie detector test can be beaten, but to me that is a pretty ballsy thing to do if he really were guilty of assault.

The other issue, as Ben Shapiro brought up on one of his recent podcasts, is that when it comes to 'assault' we have a moving target as to what is actually the definition of assault. Is sexual assault when someone grabs you by the butt or the balls/pussy?

Well in that case I guess I better hashtag #metoo as that has happened to me from members of both sexes (although not simultaneously.) From my own personal experience I'll put that down as an unwanted advance and something that a simple 'piss off' couldn't rectify (except one time when I turned around and she was very cute which led to a 'how you doin?') And even then with that example you can create an interesting argument. If someone who you don't find attractive pinches your arse is that assault? But if someone pinches your arse and you turn around and see that they are really hot is that too assault or are you willing to give that a pass?

As I say the issue is problematic in that what amounts to what one considers assault is entirely subjective. From what I read about the Anthony Rapp situation, for me personally that didn't amount to assault as more incredibly bad judgment from Spacey (plus the lurking suspicion he may be a peadophile.) The other underage account, the anonymous one where Spacey forced himself on the kid, that sounded far more problematic to me, however Morrissey didn't comment on that specific encounter so I can't say as to what he may or may not have thought about that one.

Having read the interview a few times I also don't understand the whole 'he is siding with Harvey Weinstein' angle. No he's not. What he is stating is that in many cases there will be some actresses who made some bad decisions who will use the current climate to rewrite their narrative. If anyone doesn't think that won't happen they are nuts. And then of course there are also the very real victims who did get raped and have suffered in silence. It is them that my heart truly goes out.

The whole situation is f***ed up.

On a side note, I am amazed at the amount of accusers who say they were at a party and they either 'fell asleep' on the sofa to awaken and everyone else had gone home or that they didn't feel comfortable with the situation so they went to lie down in the bedroom only to awaken and find everyone else had gone home. I don't know about you, but if I feel unsafe somewhere the very last thing I would do is go and lie down and fall asleep in a stranger's bedroom. I guess it's called Hollyweird for a reason.

According to the story, Anthony Rapp told
Anthony Rapp was picked up and put on the bed and then Kevin Spacey got on top of him. You don't consider this assault?
He didn't 'fall asleep' or "lie down in the bedroom."
According to Kevin Spacey
"I don't remember but if I did that I owe him an apology and also I was drunk. Also I choose to live my life as a gay man." (slight paraphrase but that's what he said.)

And Morrissey is saying that women that didn't get the career they wanted are sorry they allowed some pig to use them. But most of the women with something to say about Harvey Weinstein actually have great careers. The ones that don't are probably afraid to talk.
 
According to the story, Anthony Rapp told
Anthony Rapp was picked up and put on the bed and then Kevin Spacey got on top of him. You don't consider this assault?
He didn't 'fall asleep' or "lie down in the bedroom."
According to Kevin Spacey
"I don't remember but if I did that I owe him an apology and also I was drunk. Also I choose to live my life as a gay man." (slight paraphrase but that's what he said.)

And Morrissey is saying that women that didn't get the career they wanted are sorry they allowed some pig to use them. But most of the women with something to say about Harvey Weinstein actually have great careers. The ones that don't are probably afraid to talk.

Yes, based on my personal POV I don't consider that assault so much as badly thought out drunken advance. Each to their own as to what you consider it.
 
Yes, based on my personal POV I don't consider that assault so much as badly thought out drunken advance. Each to their own as to what you consider it.

As if he was too drunk to not realize he was climbing onto a child. That's idiotic. This was not the only time he had done something like this and you well know it. And he wasn't always drunk, just always lecherous. Stop defending this scumbag already ffs.
 
As if he was too drunk to not realize he was climbing onto a child. That's idiotic. This was not the only time he had done something like this and you well know it. And he wasn't always drunk, just always lecherous. Stop defending this scumbag already ffs.

Where have I defended him? He's definitely a lecherous perv, and 'yes' it is quite possible to get so drunk you don't know what you are doing. It's called drinking to blackout. Was this the case here? Only Kevin Spacey knows for sure. I'm not giving Spacey a pass for his behaviour, as I've said in a previous post, I find the story of him trying to forcibly have anal sex with that other young guy very very troubling, I just perosnally don't feel like the Rapp incident was case of sexual assault, as distasteful as it may be.

I have been at a house party, asleep in one of the bedrooms only to wake up to find this drunken chick trying to dry hump me while simultaneously sticking her tongue in my ear. Was that sexual assault? Maybe for you it could be, but not in my opinion, I didn't feel as though I had been sexually assaulted, more a case of a drunken person had made a woeful misguided pass at me.

I have only discussed the Rapp situation on this forum, but please feel free to go and find my post where I have defended all of Kevin Spacey's actions with other men or given him a pass. Clue: I haven't.
 
Yes, based on my personal POV I don't consider that assault so much as badly thought out drunken advance. Each to their own as to what you consider it.

It's really not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of law and it's pretty clear. You're factually incorrect with "badly thought out drunken advance" as well. A badly thought out drunken advance happens spontaneously. Kevin Spacey is accused of other sexual assaults including another one that happened two years prior to this one. It wasn't badly thought out in the sense you suggest, that it was a spontaneous action, and out of character. It was badly thought out in the sense of, "I think I'll invite this kid I know to my party and try to have sex with him."
 

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