Scathing article:Guardian: Morrissey You're a Fraud.(Morrissey & his fans have ruined everything)

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

You have to be pretty fucken thick if you need to re-read a book three times to do any kind of review on it, hatchet job or otherwise.
So where's your in depth review from one reading? Have you read it? Doubt it! A book reviewed here by people who haven't read it, on the basis of 'reviews' by other reviewers who also haven't read it. You couldn't make it up!

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Nothing you type is too complex for anybody. Not even your imaginary interns.
aw! u mad bro? u butt sore? if so, take your head out of your arse and kiss your butt better.

u read the book yet? I very much doubt it.
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

aw! u mad bro? u butt sore? if so, take your head out of your arse and kiss your butt better.

u read the book yet? I very much doubt it.
Touché, Oscar. Yet more wit and sophistication from the Mark Chapman of Morrissey-Solo.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

So where's your in depth review from one reading? Have you read it? Doubt it! A book reviewed here by people who haven't read it, on the basis of 'reviews' by other reviewers who also haven't read it. You couldn't make it up!

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aw! u mad bro? u butt sore? if so, take your head out of your arse and kiss your butt better.

u read the book yet? I very much doubt it.
Yeah I have a copy. I found parts of it to be very well written, other parts a little flabby and at times bellicose which is natural when you're talking about Morrissey.

Overall I found it a very enjoyable read, I wish he'd included more about how the albums were recorded and how he worked with each particular songwriter and less about his seemingly never ending world tour in Scandinavia. But yeah overall a very very readable book, his humour is a bit catty which I personally like and there are many moments where I laughed at loud whilst reading it. It felt very gossipy and bitchy which seems to be M to a tee. I thought his character assassination of Geoff Travis was hilarious, especially the part about the biscuits.

It is in no way a monstrosity of a book like you paint out nor will it be the end of Penguin.

But then I suspect you are here for the sole purpose of winding people up. Why else would someone who so ardently believes that Morrissey is both well past it and completely fraudulent as an artist and human being dedicate themselves to writing 1300+ posts (many of them long winded) on the object of their disaffection? The alternative is too pathetic to contemplate.
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
Re: Scathing article:Guardian: Morrissey You're a Fraud.(Morrissey & his fans have ruined everything

Courtesy of Carole Cadwalladr in the Observer.... the strangest article about Autobiography yet "Morrissey, you're a fraud" (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/19/bigmouth-morrissey-strikes-again).

Weird rant about the irrelevance of Morrissey which descends in an odd class-war piece that seem out of place in the Guardian/Observer. Ends with the delightful signoff "Eff off, Morrissey. And all who sail within him".

@MarkWilsonWords
https://twitter.com/MarkWilsonWords
Hasn't THe Guardian learned anything from the assassination of John Lennon? Calling a musician with a notably crazed fanbase a "fraud" is journalistically irresponsible. Let's just hope none of the crazy ones are Holden Caulfield fans.

(Can you tell I just watched that Salinger documentary? :D)
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Touché, Oscar. Yet more wit and sophistication from the Mark Chapman of Morrissey-Solo.
oh, yes, I'm going to get my water pistol, load it up with piss and spray Morrissey in protest at his appalling prose skills, because I have nothing better to do with my life here "in Mom's Basement"? *ahem!* Morrissey is NOT Salinger, not LENNON, and I don't think allusions to Chapman are in good taste, given Morrissey had to flee his Hollywood home and live as an itinerant international tourist trash class warrior to escape some of the denizens of these threads. I sincerely hope he never faces anything other than a severe verbal lashing for his ridiculous trolling in "Autobiography". You should be ashamed of yourself, but you're probably too stupid and shameless to understand what you've written. Like Morrissey, your cult leader, mentor and guru.
 
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BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Yeah I have a copy. I found parts of it to be very well written, other parts a little flabby and at times bellicose which is natural when you're talking about Morrissey.

Overall I found it a very enjoyable read, I wish he'd included more about how the albums were recorded and how he worked with each particular songwriter and less about his seemingly never ending world tour in Scandinavia. But yeah overall a very very readable book, his humour is a bit catty which I personally like and there are many moments where I laughed at loud whilst reading it. It felt very gossipy and bitchy which seems to be M to a tee. I thought his character assassination of Geoff Travis was hilarious, especially the part about the biscuits.

It is in no way a monstrosity of a book like you paint out nor will it be the end of Penguin.

But then I suspect you are here for the sole purpose of winding people up. Why else would someone who so ardently believes that Morrissey is both well past it and completely fraudulent as an artist and human being dedicate themselves to writing 1300+ posts (many of them long winded) on the object of their disaffection? The alternative is too pathetic to contemplate.
Because Morrissey isn't of any more interest or importance to me than Dylan, Cohen, Madonna or the rest of the Boomer Frauds. He's Exhibit A, for a meditation about the collapse of pop culture from the 60s to now. I chose him because he also comes from an English industrial city, but Manchester, not Birmingham. He's also of direct Irish descent, like me. My ruminations are part of a wider project about the Irish in Britain as well as a book on Warhol and fame. I doubt much of this off-the-cuff musing will end up in either of those books as Morrissey is an irritant distraction to the real heroes like Lydon, Shane and Rowlands. They're troubled too, but there's some real drama in their life stories, whereas Morrissey's seems to be carefully scripted Outsider chic that anyone who went to Birmingham Arts Lab in the 1970s would have been bored with before punk. I'm sure the same scene existed in Manchester and there's a lot of folk who moved between the two cities and London. I was one of them.
I'm orders of magnitude more important than Morrissey. Or so i'm told by those who beg me to stop the 'posthumous' vow, stop being worse than Salinger and acutally publish. But I have a wonderful life, full of love, sex, family, friends, animal companions, art, financial abundance, nature. And I've only recently overcome life-threatening health challenges. Why on earth would I risk all that to trundle around in a tour bus for the gig/lecture theatre circuit and have a lot of eejits trying to be my 'fans'? I have a life. I don't want or need fame, though I realise that's inevitable when I die and hope my children can cope with the burden of my estate.

I hope this answers your query. I answered this several times. Please study my comment history before asking irrelevant questions that have already been answered. To repeat: I am studying "Autobiography" as an example of all that is rotten in Boomer culture, but I love a lot of his music and words. He's a wonderful singer, a great lyricist and if he had had the sense to STFU once he'd been given a platform, he would be unimpeachable. But he's a face time attention whore like all the rest, so had to 'share' his absurd views, thus ruining a hell of a lot of people's memories, and making it time to cull his catalogue for those 'suspicious' items which, after this book, are now revealed as toxic cultural poison.

Next.

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You have to be pretty fucken thick if you need to re-read a book three times to do any kind of review on it, hatchet job or otherwise.
Or a serious critic of contemporary culture. Do you make a judgement on a new Morrissey song on first, third or tenth listen? What's the difference? Have you read the book? I doubt it!
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

the article is an interesting read, I even agree with some of it :eek:
however, the primary thing I took away from it was having pity for its author :o
having that much hate in one's heart and mind cannot be a good thing :straightface:
I agree with you. I like some of his writing, once you've used a few red pens to strike through the nonsense. It needs editing and a style guide, but there's potential. However, he's had endless time, wealth and resources to educate himself to become a 'serious' writer, yet it reads like most of the rants here, including mine. But I'd never publish such stuff as 'serious' literature.

I think there's a feeling of pity but also compassion. He's clearly troubled and always has been, quite why he's so troubled isn't clear. It's very sad when he reveals how he was a client of Dr Anthony Clare, a good and decent man, but that he couldn't share the insights of those sessions with Jake as it was 'too much',too beyond the rules of the, presumably asexual, bromance. Having recovered from serious mental health issues as a result of violent crime, I do have a great deal of sympathy at treatment dilemmas, as it was hit and miss for me for years, despite the best efforts of the NHS. I'm well now, but it seems like a fluke, a lottery win in retrospect, I just happened to chance upon a therapeutic tool that worked when others had failed. The best thing about the book is that Morrissey 'comes out' about mental health issues, and I was moved to read of the various mood pills he was prescribe during the decades which failed to shift his underlying distress. SISMS shook me to the core when i heard it debut at The Roundhouse. It's very sad that, despite endless wealth and time, he doesn't seem to have been able to find a treatment plan to restore him to childhood bliss, or a version of it.

Because of this obvious mental distress, my overall feeling is of regret and also, forgiveness. He does appear to be consumed by hatred at times, but I place the blame on Penguin. Just because someone is rich and famous doesn't mean they should be encouraged to make a disgrace of themselves; Morrissey, Britney, Miley. Their personal avarice and attention seeking behaviour has to be balanced with a cold, hard look at the corporations that host this fake rebellion for profit. Yes, Morrissey is 54 and responsible legally and morally for everything he says on stage (Norway) or writes in his book. But it's really very alarming to think there is no one he trusted to read this and give him honest feedback. If he did and then rejected it, well, he has a lesson in life to learn, perhaps over and over again.

I hope that when the curtain comes down on his workaholic career chasing phantoms of fame, that there is someone or a few people there for him. Johnny Marr walked away from the workaholic obsessive for the pleasures of family life, friends, veganism and an interesting life in art, now he gets his late-in-life reward of a real, dedicated Audience who don't need to worship him to enjoy his emerging art.

Morrissey threw down the gauntlet, so did Penguin. By insisting that this was a 'classic' (sic) I had to look at the other tomes on my bookshelf under this marque and treat reviewing it as a serious project. I have done so, and my 'tough love' is entirely appropriate, given the debacle that has unfolded.

There's a ridiculous tautology which says "everything else is rubbish, Morrissey is less rubbish, therefore Morrissey is meritorious". This is sophistry. Only within the herd culture of NME/Chart/awards/sales enviroment which consumes Morrissey is such talk of any value. It's not about the paucity of merit in individual artistic offerings, it's about a wider cultural crisis, of which Morrissey is just an amusing, tragic example of Boomer betrayal of countercultural challenges.

I've recently sent Leonard Cohen and his cult packing. It's nothing personal about Morrissey. He's really not that important, other than as a textbook example of how not to live a life in art and commerce, and about why it is always a mistake to put your career before your personal life.

There's a paradox in that he seems "still ill", he claims crippling mental anguish, yet regularly tours for months on end. How likely is it that he's ever been "still ill" to the degree he sometimes claims, yet able to withstand the military drills of the tour-bus? We don't know as recent events aren't covered, but will, no doubt, be dealt with in the inevitable sequels/prequels of the franchise.

Enjoy it if you like, ignore the atrocious nonsense if that keeps you safe within The Cult of Morrissey and The Cult of Pop Culture, but don't ever expect a genuine polymath like me to endorse the critical consensus when it's clear most who have written about this book have either not read it, not understood it's implications, or are genuinely as silly and superficial as the author.

regards
BB
 
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BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Scathing article:Guardian: Morrissey You're a Fraud.(Morrissey & his fans have ruined everything

Hasn't THe Guardian learned anything from the assassination of John Lennon? Calling a musician with a notably crazed fanbase a "fraud" is journalistically irresponsible. Let's just hope none of the crazy ones are Holden Caulfield fans.

(Can you tell I just watched that Salinger documentary? :D)
No, it isn't irresponsible, as they are not responsible for the mental health of "a notably crazed fanbase". However, Morrissey does bear some responsibility for encouraging the delusionality with his apostles schtick, which we thought was ironic in 83, till we realised he was actually disturbed.

Oh, and he calls Mike Joyce "Iscariot": he really needs to reflect on whether that's an appropriate label to pin on an ex-band member who he stiffed financially, who was vindicated in court, but is now labelled as "Judas" by Morrissey, who, presumably, fantasises he is some sort of Messiah figure to his 'apostles'?

It's not the Guardian who have been irresponsible, it's Morrissey.

Of course, Mike Joyce, has the option to instruct his lawyers to demand a retraction or clarification to ensure that Morrissey communicates to his 'notably crazed fanbase' that they should not treat Mr Joyce's legal action as equivalent to the actions of Judas towards Jesus. Or Mike could just *rolleyes* and LOL, and get on with his life. Maybe one day Morrissey will move on, too.
 
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Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

oh, yes, I'm going to get my water pistol, load it up with piss and spray Morrissey in protest at his appalling prose skills, because I have nothing better to do with my life here "in Mom's Basement"? *ahem!* Morrissey is NOT Salinger, not LENNON, and I don't think allusions to Chapman are in good taste, given Morrissey had to flee his Hollywood home and live as an itinerant international tourist trash class warrior to escape some of the denizens of these threads. I sincerely hope he never faces anything other than a severe verbal lashing for his ridiculous trolling in "Autobiography". You should be ashamed of yourself, but you're probably too stupid and shameless to understand what you've written. Like Morrissey, your cult leader, mentor and guru.
There is no cult. Only the one inside your head. The only person who is delusional and obsessed is your not-so-good self.

I compare you to Chapman because you both have NPD. For one who seems to think they're so original, you're absolutely textbook.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Persons diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder are characterized by unwarranted feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behaviour. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy. These qualities are usually defenses against a deep feeling of inferiority and of being unloved.

Symptoms

Symptoms of this disorder:
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behaviour
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic


In addition to these symptoms, the person may display arrogance, show superiority, and seek power. The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others, when in reality they have a fragile self-esteem, cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Persons diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder are characterized by unwarranted feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behaviour. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy. These qualities are usually defenses against a deep feeling of inferiority and of being unloved.

Symptoms

Symptoms of this disorder:
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behaviour
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic


[/B]
Interesting..............and all which could similarly be applied to Morrissey.
 

KelleeR

Sheffield Wednesdays
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

That was a fun read. Very emblematic of the sensationalist garbage common to major British papers. It would have been more fitting if The Daily Mail or Sun had published it, though. Reminds me of the ranting nonsense I like to write when I'm almost too drunk to type. She is entitled to her opinion, but she doesn't seem to realize the irony of her statements. This in particular - "The oppressed have become the oppressors. They're just not owning up to it. All teenagers feel like victimised outsiders at some point. That's why young people keep on rediscovering Smiths tracks from nearly 30 years ago, gratified to hear their own pain articulated and reflected back at them."
All right. Suppose she understood just how much work, how hard it was to go from being where many of us once were to where we are now. If she is expecting the 40 something Morrissey fans to apologize for our success, she can kiss my ass. This club of Smiths/Morrissey fans is a small one, always has been a small one, and certainly has no interest in the ham-fisted criticism of second rate journalists. In short, who cares what she thinks.
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Interesting..............and all which could similarly be applied to Morrissey.
Well, interestingly not, because with an NPD the key is "unwarranted feelings of self-importance" and "expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments". They have "fantasies of great success", and no matter what you think about him as a person, this can't apply to Morrissey because his artistic accomplishments are above and beyond the norm.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

There is no cult. Only the one inside your head. The only person who is delusional and obsessed is your not-so-good self.

I compare you to Chapman because you both have NPD. For one who seems to think they're so original, you're absolutely textbook.

will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth.
Spare me your diagnostic skills, Dr Swells. You tried to bolster your inner fragility by comparing me to Chapman. And fell flat on your face. There is a cult. Morrissey calls the cult members 'apostles', derides an ex-business partner and drummer as 'Iscariot'. And imagines there is a conspiracy to stop the cult spreading by denying radio play, advertising budgets and lavish recording studio budgets. It's very clearly a cult.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Well, interestingly not, because with an NPD the key is "unwarranted feelings of self-importance" and "expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments". They have "fantasies of great success", and no matter what you think about him as a person, this can't apply to Morrissey because his artistic accomplishments are above and beyond the norm.
Morrissey expects to be as successful as U2 and Coldplay but there's no basis for such unwarrented expectations. Whilst a minor success, he clearly has fantasies of greater success, once the 'conspiracy' against him is defeated. His artistic accomplishments are entirely normative in terms of record sales and concert attendances. If you are assuming that there is a consensus as to the quality of his work, then that's just more cult blather.
 
D

DAVIE

Guest
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Well I'm sure the old crow who wrote that article will disappear and die, unlike The Smiths/Morrissey's legacy....Moving on :)
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Well I'm sure the old crow who wrote that article will disappear and die, unlike The Smiths/Morrissey's legacy....Moving on :)
And you will die too, just like Lou Reed has, and Morrissey will too. Although, he's already suffered and intellectual and moral death over the last few years.

I'd wipe that stupid smile off your face, if you were close by.
 

BrummieBoy

BrummieBoy
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

What a loathsome facsimile of a human being you truly are.
Compared to who? Morrissey? epicFAIL retort.

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There is no cult. Only the one inside your head. The only person who is delusional and obsessed is your not-so-good self.

I compare you to Chapman because you both have NPD. For one who seems to think they're so original, you're absolutely textbook.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Persons diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder are characterized by unwarranted feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behaviour. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy. These qualities are usually defenses against a deep feeling of inferiority and of being unloved.

Symptoms

Symptoms of this disorder:
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behaviour
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic


In addition to these symptoms, the person may display arrogance, show superiority, and seek power. The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others, when in reality they have a fragile self-esteem, cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth.
Here's the correct diagnosis, "Doctor"

http://www.cracked.com/article_17522_6-new-personality-disorders-caused-by-internet.html
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
Re: Possibly the oddest Autobiography article I've seen yet...

Yes, I've read that article before. Whilst I do agree with you (for once) that you display strong elements of the Thin-Skinned Rage-o-holic and Low Forum Frustration Tolerance and attention-seeking Munchausen by Internet and Online Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder and (obviously) the Guy Who Everybody Hates But Will Never Leave and, of course, the good old-fashioned Troll, being an amalgam of ALL of these disorders probably suggests a broader, more encompassing diagnosis, like NPD.
 
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