Saddest song?

[nightandday]

The Smiths

Asleep
I Know It's Over
Well I Wonder
Never Had No One Ever
I Won't Share You (very sentimental with regards to Morrissey/Marr relationship)

Morrissey

Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning
I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday
Late Night, Maudlin Street
Seasick, Yet Still Docked
My Love Life

Funny how people always insist on assuming that I Won't Share You is about Morrissey/Marr relationship, even though 1) there is no evidence that would confirm that, 2) it is very unlikely based on the lyrics themselves, 3) if anything, there is something that could be considered strong evidence (thanks to nosy Mr Goddard) that the song is about a certain other person. But I suppose there are certain legends that people just won't let go of.

 

[Danny]

Funny how people always insist on assuming that I Won't Share You is about Morrissey/Marr relationship, even though 1) there is no evidence that would confirm that, 2) it is very unlikely based on the lyrics themselves, 3) if anything, there is something that could be considered strong evidence (thanks to nosy Mr Goddard) that the song is about a certain other person. But I suppose there are certain legends that people just won't let go of.

I think it's just a case of people looking at the title and no further. Personally I'm always suspicious of people drawing conclusions about Morrissey's private life from his songs. I can't help feeling quite often he could be rewriting some obscure film or tv show he has seen and then standing back and laughing at us all. An obvious example is William which is basically Billy Liar, yet people insist on ignoring this in favour of more gossipy interpretations. That one is easily discovered because it's a well known film, but how many other obscure references are yet to be discovered? Quite a few I suspect. I'm convinced This Charming Man is another one. I just don't have enough knowledge of British film to find it out.

 

[nightandday]

I think it's just a case of people looking at the title and no further.

You are so right about that. People do often seem just look at the titles (music writers especially). I remember reading an article where the writer wrote that Morrissey doesn't have to reveal his sexual orientation as it's "obvious" from his "odes to Handsome Devils and Sweet and Tender Hooligans" Eh?! Then there was someone who named Sweet and Tender Hooligan as one of Morrissey's songs that 'celebrates' hooligans and gangsters. Not to mention some far darker and more dangerous examples of people writing about songs they don't even seem to have heard (or if they did, they must be idiots): Asian Rut, This Is Not Your Country... How ironic considering what those songs are really about.

Personally I'm always suspicious of people drawing conclusions about Morrissey's private life from his songs. I can't help feeling quite often he could be rewriting some obscure film or tv show he has seen and then standing back and laughing at us all. An obvious example is William which is basically Billy Liar, yet people insist on ignoring this in favour of more gossipy interpretations. That one is easily discovered because it's a well known film, but how many other obscure references are yet to be discovered? Quite a few I suspect.

You are right about that, too. I think that trying to figure out anything about his private life for sure just based on his lyrics is a dead-end. Just look at debates of that kind (and I know there quite a few on this forum - I used to lurk long before I joined) - people interpret the same songs in hundred different ways, and you could use the exact same lines to prove completely different things. And you could say that about pretty much every other artist, as well. But people usually don't dissect Paul Weller's, Nick Cave's, Rufus Wainwritght's, Patti Smith's, Bob Mould's, Jeff Buckley's, or [insert any other artist here] lyrics that way.

I always have a laugh at that "William" thing - anyone who's seen the film can see that the song's scenario is lifted from the film, just like "London" is, or "This Night Has Opened My Eyes" is from A Taste Of Honey.

I'm convinced This Charming Man is another one. I just don't have enough knowledge of British film to find it out.

Well, I don't know of any film that has the exact same scenario, but there is a line from This Charming Man that is taken directly from the Joseph Mankiewicz' film Sleuth - Laurence Olivier's character supposedly tells Michael Caine's character: "you're a jumped-up pantry boy who doesn't know his place!" and Caine's character rephrases it later in the film: "maybe I am a jumped-up pantry boy who doesn't know his place..." Here's the IMDB entry about it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069281/ Look in Memorable quotes.

I haven't seen the film, though, but from what I've heard, the intrigue revolves around a pretended robbery involving some jewelry - which might put a different spin on the line 'Return the ring'.

 

[AlbertFinney]

I think it's just a case of people looking at the title and no further. Personally I'm always suspicious of people drawing conclusions about Morrissey's private life from his songs. I can't help feeling quite often he could be rewriting some obscure film or tv show he has seen and then standing back and laughing at us all. An obvious example is William which is basically Billy Liar, yet people insist on ignoring this in favour of more gossipy interpretations. That one is easily discovered because it's a well known film, but how many other obscure references are yet to be discovered? Quite a few I suspect. I'm convinced This Charming Man is another one. I just don't have enough knowledge of British film to find it out.

Then again, it could actually be about Morrissey and Marr! I don't assume anything with Morrissey songs, most of them I like for their personal meaning to me rather than what they were originally written about. For the record I think Simon Goddard's book is the best Smiths book by a country mile.

And The Smiths/Morrissey's saddest songs?

I know it's over
Asleep
Last night I dreamt that somebody loved me

 

[nightandday]

I don't assume anything with Morrissey songs, most of them I like for their personal meaning to me rather than what they were originally written about.

Morrissey himself has said a few times that he wouldn't want to ruin the songs to people who have their own interpretations. I think he likes it when songs speak to people about their lives, even if it might not be what he had in mind when he was writing the song.

For the record I think Simon Goddard's book is the best Smiths book by a country mile.

I agree it is the best, though not by a mile...well, actually, that that one and "Severed Alliance" are, in their different ways, on the top of my list of best Smiths books. I didn't mean anything bad by 'nosy Mr. Goddard'... you have to be a bit nosy when you write such books, don't you. Otherwise you'd end up writing something like Mick Middles' "The Smiths".