Recession is on... Market slides again...

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LoafingOaf

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> Can you see a resemblance to your past utterings, let me show you!
> "Translated... blah blah blah" how is it you have this mind
> reading ability to translate my thoughts & feelings, read my post
> about yours I make a suggestion to you ASKING you do you mean blah blah
> blah. So what do you put this down to? Could it be arrogance or ignorance
> or what do you say it is, please feel free to tell me what I think/know
> etc etc.

You said we have "f***ed up an already f***ed up country." Can this mean anything BUT that you feel Mr. Karzai and the current situation there is WORSE than Afghanistan under the Taliban? And one wonders if you say such a line just off the top of your head, or as a result of studying what's going on there.

Oh, because there have been tragedies. Yes, a warlord duped America into hitting a rival rather than terrorists, a lesson learned. Yes, there was the horrible wedding f*** up. Innocent people were killed more often and ON PURPOSE by the Taliban and the arab occupiers.

My probalem with the international community was that they didn't kick
the Taliban's asses a few years ago. And it's funny to me, how there were
all sorts of leftists signing petitions condemning the Taliban for their crimes, murders, and Islamic fascism before 9/11, but the moment a country
resolved to actually do something about it, they decided it was better to support the Taliban than to support anything the U.S. government was involved in. So what were those pre-9/11 petitions all about, if in the end they opposed removal of the Taliban? It blows the mind to try and figure out that crowd.

But what has the War on Terrorism brought Afghanistan?

Unlike you, I don't toss off Afghanistan as a hopeless basket case: "f***ed up" forever apparently to you, still morning the defat of the Taliban.

I've been reading, and I've found out that 30 years ago they had the best roads in Asia, and thanks to the internationals there now, new roads are being built, so farmers can take goods to market, and truckers can reach the north. And beyond that, construction workers are being recruited from militias, which helps undermine the warlords. I've also learned that Afghanistan does have a basis to hope for something of a functional economy. Before the Soviets invaded in 1979, they had lots of exports. They can base an economy on vegetables, precious stones, carpets, clothing, natural gas and so forth. Expertise and investment is beginning to return to the country, among the 4 million exiled Afghans worldwide.

For you to say we "f***ed up an already f***ed up country," why is it that women teachers who had to teach in secrecy during the Taliban now have classes out in the open, with girls learning to read for the first time in their lives? Attendance at schools has gone from 5% to 35%, as children walk to school carrying Unicef bags containing readers, pencils, and writing books.
They need more money for this, while you seem to want all these efforts to fail to score your political points.

I saw an interview with a brick builder in Kabul, where bricks haven't been made in a decade because they figured there'd just be more shelling. When asked why he is choosing this time to build bricks again, he said: "We have a government now. People need houses." (NY TIMES, last Sunday) This is called banking on the future, Grim, which people haven't been doing in Afghanistan for a long time. And you're gonna sit there and say this isn't a good thing? A better thing than under the Taliban? It's not a less f***ed up situation?

In Mazar, carpet sellers were asked why there is peace in their city (at least peace by Afghanistan standards) and they pointed to the air at U.S. peacekeeping planes. Those actually working in Afhganistan to make the new government survives report that the biggest fear among locals is that the Americans and other internationals will leave too SOON, as they did before, and this in a country that hates outsiders. This is because there's the sense this is the last chance, and they will tolerate limited and temporary presence of outsiders if it can prevent civil war, complete anarchy, and a return of arab terrorists.

You seemed to be saying because there are Islamic terrorists trying to kill KArzai and undermine the government, that this means we've "f***ed up" the country. What does that mean? Because the freaks who enslaved Agghanistan are angry at the new government, and want it to fail? Of course that's the case.
And if KArzai IS killed and the government IS undermined, it's not just hope killed for Afghans. It would make the terrorists feel more uppity about Pakistan as well. It's so typical of European mentality to look at a difficult situation and back away. It's what led to Hitler plowing all over your continent. It's what led to 200,000 murders in Bosnia just hours away from most do-nothing European governments. Bosnia has had it's warlord fighting problems too, but now they have a growing national army undermining that. That's the model Karzai is following as he is trying to put together a national army for security.

A discouraging country does not mean a hopeless country. Hope is what you hear from the 1.6 million refugees who are returning home, faster than anyone expected. One of the biggest difficulties in Afghanistan right now is that Afghans are trying to rebuild at a pace that is faster than the international community expected, and they need more resources. You should be petitioning your government to do more in Afghanistan, not less. If we're really going around killing innocent Afghans recklessly, why aren't the Afghans ordering us to leave? Why they seem to be saying is, We're suspicious of infidels, but don't abandon us in these first couple years of danger.

I'm sorry it took self-interest for the world to help out a failed country, but a failed country is being helped, and it's thanks to the War on Terrorism. Get a clue.
 
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LoafingOaf

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

Typo:
"still morning the defat of the Taliban. "

Should read: STILL MOURNING THE DEFEAT OF THE TALIBAN.

Which you are!

But I remember...and I remember the messages the extreme left wing crowd on this board posted last year. 12 million Afghans, you guys said, would be purposely murdered by American genocide.

And you, I specifically remember you saying we'd "carpet bomb" civilians like Germany was carpet bombed in WW2. Didn't happen! You guys were so completely wrong it's laughable.
 
G

Grim O'Grady

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> Typo:
> "still morning the defat of the Taliban. "

Your typo is that you are living your white middle class male existence.

> Should read: STILL MOURNING THE DEFEAT OF THE TALIBAN.

> Which you are!

Thanks for telling me what I'm in mourning about, now then how's about a reality check mr gung-ho. If you ever bothered to read my posts you would be well aware of my position on the taliban but as you are a bit cloth-eared you never listen or learn, which is a tragedy.

> But I remember...and I remember the messages the extreme left wing crowd
> on this board posted last year. 12 million Afghans, you guys said, would
> be purposely murdered by American genocide.

I never said any such thing, you ought to know I've never put the murder down to just the americans (read all of my past posts & you will see). But what's the tally so far & don't go running to your daddy for the made up answers, time you outgrew & moved on from your parents beliefs & ideals & learnt to fend for yourself.

> And you, I specifically remember you saying we'd "carpet bomb"
> civilians like Germany was carpet bombed in WW2. Didn't happen! You guys
> were so completely wrong it's laughable.

I never said any such thing. But I do recall you making up lies last time I had to reply to your rantings, don't suppose you'll recall that but would you like me to regurgitate it for you?

Peace on you from a very great height

Grim O'Grady
 
T

There's no debate!

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> You said we have "f***ed up an already f***ed up country." Can
> this mean anything BUT that you feel Mr. Karzai and the current situation
> there is WORSE than Afghanistan under the Taliban? And one wonders if you
> say such a line just off the top of your head, or as a result of studying
> what's going on there.

> Oh, because there have been tragedies. Yes, a warlord duped America into
> hitting a rival rather than terrorists, a lesson learned. Yes, there was
> the horrible wedding f*** up. Innocent people were killed more often and
> ON PURPOSE by the Taliban and the arab occupiers.

Mr Loafing Dwarf's seems to always bring the reason and the justification of Americas action down to the wonderful deed's America are doing in the name of Humanity in Afganistan. This view is obscene and very naive, i just don't see how any one can come to the conclusion that America are doing this out of the kindness of there hearts. The main thing that keeps coming up is all the good thats been done in changing Afganistan & bringing down the taliban. First of all the only reason America wanted to bring the collapse of the taliban was so they could flush out Bin laden & and the terrorists so he/they couldn't operate in a safe place not to free the people of Afganistan that is total crap. The US doesn't care about the people of Afganistan if there basic reasons for The War on Terror were this then surley they would have a huge campaign helping all these other places in the world, China has a terrible hunanity recorld, Saudi Arabi has a bad recorld as well, just to name a couple but no the truth is America doesn't care or value the lives of people in such countries. The fact is that over Twice the amount of people have already been killed in Afganistan that in the world trade attacks, we all were appauled at the deaths of inocent peole in America so why arn't we Bothered about inocent people being killed in Afganistan? are there lives less important than those in America.

> My probalem with the international community was that they didn't kick
> the Taliban's asses a few years ago. And it's funny to me, how there were
> all sorts of leftists signing petitions condemning the Taliban for their
> crimes, murders, and Islamic fascism before 9/11, but the moment a country
> resolved to actually do something about it, they decided it was better to
> support the Taliban than to support anything the U.S. government was
> involved in. So what were those pre-9/11 petitions all about, if in the
> end they opposed removal of the Taliban? It blows the mind to try and
> figure out that crowd.

There seems to be this miss conception that just because some one dares to take the middle ground on the horrors of the so called "war on terror" that they some how support the taliban. I have never heard any one say they support the taliban and making these accusations is very lazy & shows a lack of inteligence. To make the statement that the US is resolved to actually do something about it is crazy. The US aren't trying to resolve anything they are retaliating for the 9/11 attacks the same usless tic for tack that usually goes on in war. Why didn't the US resolve and look at the reasons why Bin laden & alqueda (not the taliban or Afganistan) wanted to attack them, why some one would go to such lengths to do such horrors but no they declare war on terrorists and go wipe out Afganistan? All you middle classed americans were never bothered about the IRA killing Thousands of inocent people in fact i understand that half of you supported and funded with donations. Think about it you were supporting terrorism.

> But what has the War on Terrorism brought Afghanistan?

> Unlike you, I don't toss off Afghanistan as a hopeless basket case:
> "f***ed up" forever apparently to you, still morning the defat
> of the Taliban.

> I've been reading, and I've found out that 30 years ago they had the best
> roads in Asia, and thanks to the internationals there now, new roads are
> being built, so farmers can take goods to market, and truckers can reach
> the north. And beyond that, construction workers are being recruited from
> militias, which helps undermine the warlords. I've also learned that
> Afghanistan does have a basis to hope for something of a functional
> economy. Before the Soviets invaded in 1979, they had lots of exports.
> They can base an economy on vegetables, precious stones, carpets,
> clothing, natural gas and so forth. Expertise and investment is beginning
> to return to the country, among the 4 million exiled Afghans worldwide.

> For you to say we "f***ed up an already f***ed up country," why
> is it that women teachers who had to teach in secrecy during the Taliban
> now have classes out in the open, with girls learning to read for the
> first time in their lives? Attendance at schools has gone from 5% to 35%,
> as children walk to school carrying Unicef bags containing readers,
> pencils, and writing books.
> They need more money for this, while you seem to want all these efforts to
> fail to score your political points.

> I saw an interview with a brick builder in Kabul, where bricks haven't
> been made in a decade because they figured there'd just be more shelling.
> When asked why he is choosing this time to build bricks again, he said:
> "We have a government now. People need houses." (NY TIMES, last
> Sunday) This is called banking on the future, Grim, which people haven't
> been doing in Afghanistan for a long time. And you're gonna sit there and
> say this isn't a good thing? A better thing than under the Taliban? It's
> not a less f***ed up situation?

> In Mazar, carpet sellers were asked why there is peace in their city (at
> least peace by Afghanistan standards) and they pointed to the air at U.S.
> peacekeeping planes. Those actually working in Afhganistan to make the new
> government survives report that the biggest fear among locals is that the
> Americans and other internationals will leave too SOON, as they did
> before, and this in a country that hates outsiders. This is because
> there's the sense this is the last chance, and they will tolerate limited
> and temporary presence of outsiders if it can prevent civil war, complete
> anarchy, and a return of arab terrorists.

You seem over joyed that Afganistan are free from the taliban and all the good that has been brought to the country. I don't suppose that it has suddenly been turned in to paradise and all attitudes have suddenly changed overnight. Yes it is good that th etaliban have lost control i don't think anyone would argue with that. But, don't believe your own hype, again i would say that the US don't really care come on America didn't exactly improve things whilst they funded the taliban against Russia, America had quite a hand in f***ing up a allready f***ed up country even before this so called "war on terror" what did the us do to bring down the taliban then. For f***s sake don't come at us with the americans hero shit, please.

> You seemed to be saying because there are Islamic terrorists trying to
> kill KArzai and undermine the government, that this means we've
> "f***ed up" the country. What does that mean? Because the freaks
> who enslaved Agghanistan are angry at the new government, and want it to
> fail? Of course that's the case.
> And if KArzai IS killed and the government IS undermined, it's not just
> hope killed for Afghans. It would make the terrorists feel more uppity
> about Pakistan as well. It's so typical of European mentality to look at a
> difficult situation and back away. It's what led to Hitler plowing all
> over your continent. It's what led to 200,000 murders in Bosnia just hours
> away from most do-nothing European governments. Bosnia has had it's
> warlord fighting problems too, but now they have a growing national army
> undermining that. That's the model Karzai is following as he is trying to
> put together a national army for security.

> A discouraging country does not mean a hopeless country. Hope is what you
> hear from the 1.6 million refugees who are returning home, faster than
> anyone expected. One of the biggest difficulties in Afghanistan right now
> is that Afghans are trying to rebuild at a pace that is faster than the
> international community expected, and they need more resources. You should
> be petitioning your government to do more in Afghanistan, not less. If
> we're really going around killing innocent Afghans recklessly, why aren't
> the Afghans ordering us to leave? Why they seem to be saying is, We're
> suspicious of infidels, but don't abandon us in these first couple years
> of danger.

> I'm sorry it took self-interest for the world to help out a failed
> country, but a failed country is being helped, and it's thanks to the War
> on Terrorism. Get a clue.

Come on, agian the same self drival, your beliving every thing your being brainwashed with. This seems to be the stance the US is taking now that they haven't managed to capture Bin Laden. It's sad because the terrorist haven't been stopped all that will happen is that they will lie low, wait and attack again. Nothing has been changed.
 
L

LoafingOaf

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> Your typo is that you are living your white middle class male existence.

Oh dear, he's pulling out the old "white male" attack. LOL

You're such a classic old school leftist it's actually kinda cute.

> I never said any such thing. But I do recall you making up lies last time
> I had to reply to your rantings, don't suppose you'll recall that but
> would you like me to regurgitate it for you?

Well, I can't seem to get the search feature to go back before Jan 2002, but I know for a fact that you used carpet bombing of Germany as an example in one of your posts, I remember it like it was yesterday, highlighting the text and replying to it. So... I know you're lying, you probably know you're lying, but you just wanna make believe for observers, whatever! Or maybe you put so little thought into what you say, you just spew shit off the top of your head and forget.

I'm too drunk right now to get to all the latest bullshit, and I see we have someone posting under a new screenname as well (presumedly to be protected from his/her track record). And I'm not sure yet I will bother, as I don't see you guys using any facts to back things up. And, no, "There's no debate," cutting and pasting a propaganda sheet from a web site is not something I'm gonna reply to, it's really just so boring.

Mr Karzai is better than the Taliban. I don't see you guys refuting that.
 
G

Grim O'Grady

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> Oh dear, he's pulling out the old "white male" attack. LOL

Middle class, you missed that out.

> You're such a classic old school leftist it's actually kinda cute.

Thanks coz you're an ugly right wing numbty.

> Well, I can't seem to get the search feature to go back before Jan 2002,
> but I know for a fact that you used carpet bombing of Germany as an
> example in one of your posts, I remember it like it was yesterday,
> highlighting the text and replying to it. So... I know you're lying, you
> probably know you're lying, but you just wanna make believe for observers,
> whatever! Or maybe you put so little thought into what you say, you just
> spew shit off the top of your head and forget.

I don't deny using the term carpet bombing in Germany, but it wasn't anything like your vicious 1 track blood thirsty mind remembers
"I specifically remember you saying we'd "carpet bomb" civilians like Germany was carpet bombed in WW2." I was bringing to your attention of not learning from the mistakes of history.
But even so they have bombed the f*** out of Afghanistan, or are you denying that now.

> I'm too drunk right now to get to all the latest bullshit, and I see we
> have someone posting under a new screenname as well (presumedly to be
> protected from his/her track record). And I'm not sure yet I will bother,
> as I don't see you guys using any facts to back things up. And, no,
> "There's no debate," cutting and pasting a propaganda sheet from
> a web site is not something I'm gonna reply to, it's really just so
> boring.

I thought c & p was your domain, I haven't c & p anything.

> Mr Karzai is better than the Taliban. I don't see you guys refuting that.

Who has said that mr Karzai is worse than the taliban? Who as supported the taliban in any of their postings, I for 1 have never done such a thing, what bothers you is that I've not been taken in hook line & bombing of our governments bullshit, are there any bells ringing now?

Here's a fact for you...
$350billion of American tax payers money spent on the armed forces, how much do you spend on health care? Guess death wins it by more than a metric mile or two doesn't it.

love
Grim O'Grady
 
L

Loafing oaf in bread

Guest
Re: welcome to Iraq

> Oh dear, he's pulling out the old "white male" attack. LOL

Why not? Loaf while your doing all your research to back up your views why not take a look at your own history in the states. Look at the action of white america at home and abroad. Read up on how America once preached Freedom & Intergration but actually practised Apartheid. Maybe look in to why America has a vested interest in the middle east (which i think may be quite obvious!) then think abouts things, maybe open your narrow mind.

> You're such a classic old school leftist it's actually kinda cute.

Once again someone takes an objective view to barbaric force of the US so the Loafing Dwarf trys to demonize them by calling them an old school leftist. But hey, big deal surley better than being as far down the right as J-LOAF seems to be or aspires to be.

> Well, I can't seem to get the search feature to go back before Jan 2002,
> but I know for a fact that you used carpet bombing of Germany as an
> example in one of your posts, I remember it like it was yesterday,
> highlighting the text and replying to it. So... I know you're lying, you
> probably know you're lying, but you just wanna make believe for observers,
> whatever! Or maybe you put so little thought into what you say, you just
> spew shit off the top of your head and forget.

> I'm too drunk right now to get to all the latest bullshit, and I see we
> have someone posting under a new screenname as well (presumedly to be
> protected from his/her track record). And I'm not sure yet I will bother,
> as I don't see you guys using any facts to back things up. And, no,
> "There's no debate," cutting and pasting a propaganda sheet from
> a web site is not something I'm gonna reply to, it's really just so
> boring.

My cousin "No Debate" probabaly just wanted to show you some facts and figures on humanity problems that your war for freedom and justice is causing but i suppose thats like leading the blind. Maybe my Mother in law " NO Debate" thought you may take in something and learn theres more to this than what your being lead to believe. Maybe there was a little hope you may look at things a little more objectivley. Hooray for C&P i know you love it "Gloating Sauce" you big bad drunk.

Once i will say that you pressume everyone is anti american & for the terrorist and if you do i feel sorry for you, i think your sadly mistaken, luv.

> Mr Karzai is better than the Taliban. I don't see you guys refuting that.

Blah, blah, blah Mr Karzai has a history of brutalising his own people, i can't imagine this situation to last long i think they shoud have gone for the women (the name escapes me) but i don't suppose bush left a lot of room for a choice. we'll see, i hope your right homeboy.

Loafing oaf in bed - aka There's no debate - aka Dick Ronson - aka ????????????
 
F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Welcome to Afganistan? I would pass an offer...

Just my 2 cents... The problem in Afghanistan is: Northern Alliance are ethnic Tajiks, who hate Pushtuns... Pushtuns used to support Taliban, they afraid of Tajiks, hate them and, unfortunately, are sympathetic to Taliban... Mr Karzai is ethnic Pushtun, but he is a member of Northern Alliance, and he is being considered a turncoat by his tribe members.... Now Karzai is pro-American and being helped by CIA agents and military advisers for sure, he is smart, well-read, Westernized and hated by both Tajiks (as Pushtun) and by his own Pushtuns (for being a turncoat)... So Americans realized he would be killed sooner or later by his many enemies... Cause he is unpopular, for the right or wrong reasons... Some of his ministers have already been assassinated.... By giving him American military infantrymen as his own guards instead of native-born guards, Americans both protected him and humiliated him... His stock is very low right now, he is up there only by the American bayonets... and so-called jirga (spelling?) is an exercise at political equivalent of World wrestling Federation match... Americans are buying loyality of local tribe leaders by combination of promises, money, and naked power display...

Alas, this pseudo-democratic jirga may not help: Pushtuns and Tajiks would hate each other guts forever... Northerners would hate Southerners... Country is feudal, backward, miserable... Therefore the best way is to give Afgan people an opportunity to choose their own leaders according to their own liking with one condition: those leaders MUST BE FRIENDLY TO AMERICA and MUST BE AGAINST ISLAMIC EXTREMISM... To achieve this, country must be divided by 2 countries: Northern Afganistan (Tajiks/Northern alliance) and Southern Afganistan (Pushtunstan?) populated by Pushtuns... Then Tajiks could choose their own pro-American leader who is truly popular, and Pushtuns could choose their own pro-American leader... It may be not an ideal solution, cause they would keep fighting each other anyway... That's the tragedy of this situation... It is tricky to introduce Democracy at the land of ignorance, backwardness, tribal strife and Islamic extremism...
 
L

LoafingOaf

Guest
Loose Ends

> There seems to be this miss conception that just because some one dares to
> take the middle ground on the horrors of the so called "war on
> terror" that they some how support the taliban. I have never heard
> any one say they support the taliban and making these accusations is very
> lazy & shows a lack of inteligence.

Oh, I quite agree that it bothers you for someone to say you support the Taliban, but that's not going to stop me from saying it. You opposed their ouster. You were their friend.

Here's what ORwell said to pacifists against fighting nazis:
====
``Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, `he that is not with me is against me.'''
====

He said this to BRitish pacifists in the conext of the fascist threat. Nazis did not want BRitain to fight. If the British didn't fight, nazis would have defeated BRitain. PAcifists did not want Britain to fight. They, therefore, were in support of nazi victory against Britian.

And, you, well, you were in support of the Taliban remaining, continuing to sponsor Al Quada mass murderers planing future attacks, and thus were in favor of future attacks.

>>>>>
All you middle classed americans were never bothered about the IRA killing Thousands of inocent people in fact i understand that half of you supported and funded with donations. Think about it you were supporting terrorism.
>
The fact is that over Twice the amount of people have already been killed in Afganistan that in the world trade attacks

Why didn't the US resolve and look at the reasons why Bin laden & alqueda (not the taliban or Afganistan) wanted to attack them,
 
L

LoafingOaf

Guest
More loose ends

>> Oh dear, he's pulling out the old "white male" attack. LOL

> Why not? Loaf while your doing all your research

I'm not surprised you're against researching before forming opinions!

>to back up your views why
> not take a look at your own history in the states.

Oh wow. So, because America, like all of the world, has horrors in its history, including slavery (imported from the Old World, btw), that has a bearing on whether or not we're allowed to oppose terrorist, anti-civilization,
religiously deranged mass murderers? I don't see how you work that out. I guess you think America's history is so wicked it should just lay down and let itself be killed. YEs, it does fall into my view that you have such contempt for America, you can't imagine it having a right to defend itself.

Also, it seems to me, it's consistant to be ashamed of past slavery and against ISlamic terrorism. That would be the pro human rights, pro secular democracy, pro sanity point of view. I'm not sure how one who opposes a war to remove the Taliban can claim to be furthering a traditionally liberal, idealistic cause.

Basically, you're of the camp who, when faced with a new situation, rather than turning on your brain and facing it with open eyes, you got confused, baffled. "Wait," people like you think, "I've always said America is evil, how on earth can I side with anyone but those who attack her? They must be right! They must be mad at America for all the things I'm mad at America for!" I suggest you do some of the research you attack me for having done(!), because I've actually read what the terrorist vision is. And fighting their agenda is the most just cause of my life. I will support a war on religious dark aged fascists for as long as it takes. Gleefully. Everything they say, do, and believe is 100% at odds with everything a civilized person says, does, and believes.

> Once again someone takes an objective view to barbaric force of the US

"Barbaric." Yeah, pretty objective!

Keep telling us there should be no sympathy of 3,000 dead because some Irish Americans backed the IRA...that's your big point! You big "anti-barbaric" joker you!

> My cousin "No Debate" probabaly just wanted to show you some
> facts and figures on humanity problems that your war for freedom and
> justice is causing but i suppose thats like leading the blind. Maybe my
> Mother in law " NO Debate" thought you may take in something and
> learn theres more to this than what your being lead to believe. Maybe
> there was a little hope you may look at things a little more objectivley.
> Hooray for C&P i know you love it "Gloating Sauce" you big bad
> drunk.

I've already posted about detainees and Ashcroft and so forth. I don't like Ashcroft (i've called him a dangerous man many times here), I recognize that in war police state crap is a threat, and so on.
What I laugh at is you just robotically cutting and pasting someone else's propaganda sheet, listing spun facts about some 50 countries around the world, none of which, I am sure, you have looked into at all. What would be the point of me replying? And anyway, I'll stick with reading good faith critics of America's internal police state policies, such as the NY Times' William Safire, as they are attacking AShcroft as people who actually care about America and its survival. There is no similar good faith from you, so I say, f*** you, you have nothing to say about that that I care to read.

> Once i will say that you pressume everyone is anti american & for the
> terrorist and if you do i feel sorry for you, i think your sadly mistaken,
> luv.

I didn't say everyone. I;m saying YOU.

> Blah, blah, blah Mr Karzai has a history of brutalising his own people, i
> can't imagine this situation to last long i think they shoud have gone for
> the women (the name escapes me) but i don't suppose bush left a lot of
> room for a choice. we'll see, i hope your right homeboy.

Yeah, "blah blah blah," in other words, you can't mount an argument that Karzai is worse than the Taliban! As I said! My original point thus proven!

> Loafing oaf in bed - aka There's no debate - aka Dick Ronson - aka
> ????????????

Gee, could you be...white? middle class? I don't know...but you sure are an idiot.
 
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