Question for the mods

Discussion in 'Site Feedback / Suggestions' started by Anonymous, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Your reply perfectly illustrates why racism, homophobia etc. are now endemic within Morrissey-Solo …. you seemingly condone it.

    You have attempted to rationalise your argument with a rather dismissive ‘if I don’t like it, don’t look at it. Go away’. If I don’t look at it, if I go away, doesn’t the racism and homophobia etc. still exist within the forum?

    I had hoped I had made it clear that my intention was not to suppress free speech …. “I have no desire to suppress anyone's freedom of speech or freedom of expression, despite what others may claim. Discourse relating to e.g. racism and homophobia assist to remind people: that these issues continue to exist and that LGBT people, and people of ethnic origin, continue to be persecuted for who they are. Hate speech however is a very different matter and this site is currently colluding with it.”

    …. yet, here you are, accusing me of attempting to censor others.

    What I had intended was for you to regulate the forum so that this pernicious hatred would be dealt with.

    You also state “If you want to post more freely, why don't you simply create an account?”. How exactly does that stop other people, including registered users, from posting racist and homophobic comments?

    Your defence of these, racist and homophobic registered users, seems to be predicated solely on the fact that they are registered? Registered users: most of whom are every bit as anonymous as anonymous posters; as they hide behind assumed monikers and avatars.

    You then claim that “if there is a violation, then a post may be removed. What constitutes a violation? Personalised homophobic attacks don’t, personalised attacks about paedophilia don’t, personalised racist attacks don’t …

    Hate speech about: race, immigrants, Jewish people, LGBT people, black people etc – certainly doesn’t constitute a violation:
    • Jew should be hung
    • Blacks are scum
    • Muslims are murderers
    • Immigrants are rapists and gang rapists
    • LGBT people are paedophiles
    Just how arbitrary is this code of violation? Unhelpfully, you provide no definition or clarity of what violation could mean within the General Posting Policy section of the website.

    This matter has been brought to your attention. You have, it would seem, chosen to dismiss it. That’s your prerogative.

    It is now clear that the issue of the promotion of racist and homophobic etc. material does not solely rest with the individual users (registered or otherwise). You have been made explicitly aware of the content generated on your website and the potential, negative consequences to those identified as minority groups abused by the material generated within your website. You have decided to collude with your status quo and take no action.

    I have taken mine.
     
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  2. reelfountain

    reelfountain Well-Known Member

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    Man up for God's sake. You're living in a fantasy world. Life doesn't always go your way!
     
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  3. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    Being a registered user you can upvote or downvote posts to help with moderation. You can also 'ignore' other users so you don't see these so-called offensive posts. You keep mentioning you don't want to suppress free speech except for 'hate speech'. This can be vague - you'll need to report specific posts you're referring to otherwise the examples you are listing just exist in your own mind.

     
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  4. NealCassidy

    NealCassidy Well-Known Member

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    Free speech!
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Your latest response further illustrates your ignorance of homophobia and racism. Ignoring homophobia and/or racism won't make them go away. The fact that you would suggest this as solution to the problem is telling and speaks to your abject disinterest to the increasing level of homophobic and racist rhetoric engulfing your website. If you are not clear what hate speech is, and it’s all a little vague to you, perhaps you should familiarise yourself with a defintion of hate speech (see below) or, perhaps you shouldn’t operate a public forum that allows minority groups to be so readily abused by your registered users. I will send you some of the quotes you request via email, the format does not replicate on the forum, as each has been referenced for clarity.

    I am not advocating suppression. I am advocating duty of care. I am not advocating closure of this website. I am advocating for better regulation from it's owner.

    Online anti-LGBT+ hate speech is any online communication or expression which advocates, promotes, or incites hatred, discrimination or violence, against any individual or group, because of their sexual orientation, or gender identity.

    Examples of online hate speech include:

    • threats to an individual or group
    • online abuse and cyberbullying
    • words, images and videos that call for or glorify violence against a group
    • encouraging others to commit hate crimes
    • grossly offensive posts or comments
    • trolling (posting offensive, upsetting or inflammatory comments online in an attempt to hurt and provoke a response)
    • other online communication which could incite hatred towards a particular group or person.

    Hate speech can happen:

    • publicly, for example on public social media posts and comments, websites and forums
    • privately, for example through social media, messaging apps, dating apps and emails.

    Hate speech does not necessarily involve a crime being committed, but all of it can be harmful regardless of whether it is illegal or not.

    Isn’t it just free speech?
    Abusers often hide behind the idea that all they are doing is expressing an opinion or a belief, but no-one has the right to behave in a way that is abusive towards others. The Human Rights Act 1988* protects our rights, including the freedom of expression. This freedom carries with it a duty to respect other people’s rights. Everyone has the right to be protected from discrimination and violence. Use of offensive language or expressing an offensive opinion or belief itself is not unlawful, only where it causes alarm and distress, such as a threat of violence. The freedom of expression does not cover speech and expression that incites violence, hatred or discrimination. *Unfortunatly, not every country operates The Human Rights Act 1998, including the USA.
     
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  6. Oh my

    Oh my Enough! or Too much

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    It's not really censorship if these posts by Mr. Urbanus don't get aproved by the mods:

    There is ALREADY a thread about his penis: https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/fao:urbs.142972/
    And that one is about movies... It is OK if some threads are not about Urbanus' penis...
    Just saying!

    EDIT: ... Because it's not really interesting to know that he has a small one!
     
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  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The quotes below appeared in one thread: https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...hat-morrisseys-saying.144519/page-12#comments. From page 11/12 onwards. Homophobic hatred is not limited to this thread. Far from it. My intention was to email it in order toto retain the format but I couldn't find an email address. I did have one a one point. Anyway ...

    The comments below relate to homophobia, although race hatred is also obvious, as there is a consistent cross-over of hatred to ethnic groups and Muslims.

    The quotes below are but a tiny sample of the hatred that is currently generated within Morrissey Solo.

    You may be able to accept these comments as ‘free speech’ that is your opinion. However, professional LGBT and anti-racist organisations in the UK who have assisted me in this endeavour support my concern that the comments below (and other comments made by these and other registered users) do represent hate speech. Furthermore, they agree that the comment which identifies the 3 men as paedophiles is potential incitement to hate crime/violence.

    I could also collate all of the comments that Reelfountain, Stephen Hofmann et al have posted in regard to racial hatred but that would take an extremely long, long time. I expect you are more than aware of some of the comments anyway – you are a moderator, after all.

    Your latest response further illustrates your ignorance of homophobia and racism. Ignoring homophobia and racism doesn’t make it go away. The fact that you would suggest this as solution to the problem is telling and speaks to your abject disinterest to the increasing level of homophobic and racist rhetoric engulfing your website. If you are not clear what hate speech is, and it’s all a little vague to you, perhaps you should familiarise yourself with a defintion of hate speech (see below) or perhaps you shouldn’t operate a public forum that allows minority groups to be so readily abused by your registered users.

    From: https://www.morrissey-solo.com/help/terms

    "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."

    I'd suggest that some of the above have been violated. Why no action?


    I am not advocating suppression. I am advocating duty of care. I am not advocating closure of this website. I am advocating for better regulation from it's owner.

    Online anti-LGBT+ hate speech is any online communication or expression which advocates, promotes, or incites hatred, discrimination or violence, against any individual or group, because of their sexual orientation, or gender identity.

    Examples of online hate speech include:

    • threats to an individual or group
    • online abuse and cyberbullying
    • words, images and videos that call for or glorify violence against a group
    • encouraging others to commit hate crimes
    • grossly offensive posts or comments
    • trolling (posting offensive, upsetting or inflammatory comments online in an attempt to hurt and provoke a response)
    • other online communication which could incite hatred towards a particular group or person.

    Hate speech can happen:

    • publicly, for example on public social media posts and comments, websites and forums
    • privately, for example through social media, messaging apps, dating apps and emails.

    Hate speech does not necessarily involve a crime being committed, but all of it can be harmful regardless of whether it is illegal or not.

    Isn’t it just free speech?
    Abusers often hide behind the idea that all they are doing is expressing an opinion or a belief, but no-one has the right to behave in a way that is abusive towards others. The Human Rights Act 1988 protects our rights, including the freedom of expression. This freedom carries with it a duty to respect other people’s rights. Everyone has the right to be protected from discrimination and violence. Use of offensive language or expressing an offensive opinion or belief itself is not unlawful, only where it causes alarm and distress, such as a threat of violence. The freedom of expression does not cover speech and expression that incites violence, hatred or discrimination.


    User: Reelfountain

    “ …. fuck PRIDE. ….. and the fact they're1 getting the kids in on it now is like something from Gary Glitter's2 handbook”.

    "What a shower of creeps. .... the paedo element is getting more pronounced each year."

    "These people3 don't go away. They will get in there surreptitiously wherever they can and they've obviously infiltrated the Pride movement. You watch. The schools will be officially celebrating Pride each year soon."

    "Gays used to enjoy the shadows - now it's all so extroverted and crudely in your face."

    "but to be honest nobody knows the reason for the row anyway"4

    "Muslim gangs have form for this kind of thing in London, whites don't."5

    “Every Londoner knows this was the work of an ethnic gang. Just like every shooting and stabbing is always one ethnicity only - and it's currently happening at a rate of at least one street murder per night now.”6

    “If this really was a homophobic attack (rather than a row that turned into a row with homophobic insults) it has 'muslim ignorance' written all over it.”7

    “But how do we know that one of the women didn't strike first? How do we know one of the women didn't throw insults first? Perhaps the women might have even started the row.”8

    User: Stephen Hofmann

    "There was a picture on Twitter earlier (can't find it now) of a naked man and a small roughly 6 year old boy with his jaw dropping as he's faced with the mans penis starring at his face.9

    "God knows what the parents were doing taking him to something like that." 10

    "No, kids shouldn't be indoctrinated with "diversity"11

    “Expressing your sexuality? What exactly does that mean? Being naked in public? Dogging? Cottaging?”12

    1LGBT people

    2A convicted paedophile

    3Paedophiles. A photo accompanied this post. A photo that identified the 3 men as paedophiles. Men who have potentially been put as risk of actual physical violence or online trolling because they have been perceived and promoted as paedophiles.

    4An attempt to cast doubt on the testimony of 2 lesbians assaulted on a London bus. Who had made it clear they were victims of homophobic violence

    5An attempt to point blame at young Muslim men without a shred of evidence anywhere to support it.

    6Re: attack of 2 lesbians on a London bus. The blame shifts from Muslims to ‘ethnic’ gang without any evidence to support either assertion.

    7Re: attack of 2 lesbians on a London bus. Intimating that the 2 young women, victims of an homophobic assault, were lying about the homophobic attack; with the blame for the attack shifting back to Muslims.

    8Re: attack of 2 lesbians on a London bus. We know this because the 2 young woman explained about the nature of the attack clearly and methodically in several tv and press interviews. Again, a slur on the character of 2 victims of an homophobic assault.

    9Re: Pride in London. Another attempt to depict LGBT people as child abusers. The much vaunted photo was never posted.

    10Re: Pride in London. LGBT parents are bad parents.

    11Re: Pride in London. Suggesting that LGBT parents are brainwashing their children with something that is disapproved of / questionable. Note the parenthesis around diversity.

    12Negative, homophobic connotations ascribed to gay men.
     
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  8. reelfountain

    reelfountain Well-Known Member

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    "People are voicing opinions that I don't like... call the police, call somebody, anybody - please!!"

    You are a TOTAL CLOWN and I can hardly hold back my laughter. Who is forcing you to be here reading people's posts? Nobody is interested in your whining or tears. Your hurt feelings are your own business - when will you realise this? The mind boggles.

    But one thing I know for certain: when any threat is made to extinguish free thought and expression in a free society one must shout louder and LOUDER and LOUDER!

    Prepare for a full vocal assault of controversial opinions that will come like the lashing of a thousand whips in your face! Get off the ship if you can't handle the coming storm!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  9. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    Thanks for providing the quotes and links. I clicked on a few of the links but they didn't go to the actual comment so I couldn't verify. Anyway, I was going to see if anyone else agreed or cared but so far no one has really replied so what you can do is create an account, add these users to your ignore list and then you won't need to read their posts. If you want to send the links to these anti-hate speech groups go ahead, but from my perspective some may be borderline but I don't see clear violations.

     
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  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You're a homophobic prick. You're the fucking problem and have been all along. You ask somebody for info and they give it but you don't bother to check 'cos it didn't take you directly. You call it all borderline. You're fucking blind. The sooner this fucking homophobic shithole goes the better. You're peddling hate
     
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  11. The Truth

    The Truth gamma member

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    Free speech vs hate speech is the sort of topic that you can argue forever but what about the rules of the site?

    When you pretend to consider the evidence and then claim that you just really don't see it I wish I could be surprised. But you like to "win" an "argument" and the only way you can do that is when it happens on this site, since you're the administrator.
    I think that poster spent a lot of time gathering those quotes, not knowing that you didn't care in the first place.
     
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  12. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    What about the rules of the site? You have some nerve bringing that up considering the harassing others have accused you of but whatever. I looked at those quotes, not like I didn't read them. What's really hate speech, that's debatable as you said. Is this site worse than what may be posted on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc?
     
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  13. Surface

    Surface Wonder why Vegan Cro uses emoji's so much?

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    I think twitter etc would take down images of 2 guys or anyone else having sex, down pretty quickly David?
     
  14. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    Right, I took it down when I saw it. No one had reported it previously.
     
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  15. reelfountain

    reelfountain Well-Known Member

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    Hissy fit #9999 - (after sending David T a list of quoted opinions, musings and observations - since when have these been illegal?)

    But common sense prevails and free expression wins again. That's the free world for you. Though you could always move to South Korea. But how they deal with LGBT supporters in these lefty Stalinist places in anybody's guess. I'd wager it's a lifetime of hard labour, if not the death penalty.

    Count yourself lucky you live in a place of tolerance where we accept each other's right to express our viewpoints however much they may personally rile us.

    Stalinists like you have no place in truly free nations and certainly not on a site devoted to a man like Morrissey who supports free speech and diversity of opinion.

    Run to the police or whoever you want to waste your time with. But there is no authoritative body out there that gives a damn about your stung feelings. The real world hurts sometimes, so live with it - everyone else has to and you're no exception. The word has been given. Either sign up and put the posters you do not like on ignore (as you are clearly inadequate to debate with them without ending up in tears) or kindly piss off and stop littering the site with your childish gigantic memes / pictures that definitely don't come from a place of love, you hypocrite).

    And thanks for providing me with the incentive to air my views even more vociferously in future!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Erm, you really have no clue, do you. None. If others have accused the user (sorry user) of alleged harassment and you have done nothing about that alleged harassment - which seems to have you so steamed up - what does that say about you as owner/adminstrator of this site? Why haven't you acted if you have proof of this harrassment, or is this your perception of harrasmment, like everything else in your world, debatable?

    If the accusations were brought to you by other users then you have breached the confidentiality of the user by making those unfounded allegations of harassment public. What else might you let slip in a fit of pique?

    I can see now why you won't acknowledge the obvious homophobia and racism on your site, you're too busy doing damage elsewhere.

    If your benchmark of quality, diversity and equality is the sites you note above then you really should close this site now.
     
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  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Quick to act on a gif of two men having sex (edited so nothing could be seen). Not action at all when one of your users posted a comment relating to how funny it was when 2 gay men got thrown off a building to their deaths in the middle east. That was really funny. Not homophobic or hateful at all, just funny. Really, really, funny.
     
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  18. reelfountain

    reelfountain Well-Known Member

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    We all have a different sense of humour. What is shocking to one might be side-splittingly funny to another. And when somebody puts up obscene gay porn they are clearly inviting a reaction. My reaction was to take the piss - which cued your crybaby tears as usual. And actually makes me laugh even more.

    If you feel so indignant about the practice of gays being hurled from tall buildings, have a word with our Muslim friends who regularly partake in this activity for fun (but strangely never get a bad word from the LGBT crowd - strange that isn't it?)

    Your ire is clearly pointing in the wrong direction. The Middle East is that way.
     
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  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The same user, who has been brought to your attention before, has since posted this:

    "I'd say most gays were abused as kids and that is why they are gay.

    The writer Elizabeth Wurtzel agrees with this opinion. She reckoned that every single gay man she ever met admitted to have been abused.

    This explains the high rates of neurosis and suicide among gays.

    So why encourage gayness if it's the result of paedophilic abuse? Why not treat it as an unfortunate affliction or disease and try to cure it instead?"
     
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  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Reelfountain, the protected registered user

    https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...s-all-of-our-business.144562/page-10#comments
    "Gayness will always be a niche thing - they need to admit this, move on and stop trying to recruit children to their cause - it definitely gives an impression of paedophilia, whether true or not.

    David Tseng, you collude with this. You endorse this. This deranged, unstable, hate-filled individual is able to make the most repugnant statements about race, LGBT people, Jewish people, immigrants, Islam and Muslims. You are the oxygen to her hatred.

    I post it here so that you cannot claim you haven't seen it when the inevitable shit hits the inevitable fan.
     
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