Queen Elizabeth II has died, Buckingham Palace announces - BBC (September 8, 2022)

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Anonymous

Guest
A curious stance, for a Morrissey and Smiths fan?
Why?

Smiths fans are supposed to like buskers?

You are full of contradictions.

One minute you are saying music in supermarkets shouldn’t be imposed on people and people are having their minds owned and people are being told to mourn etc and the next minute you are suggesting Smiths and Morrissey fans should have particular stances over things.
 
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Les Tameside

Guest
A recent letter, published in The Guardian. Shares something of the current mood in the UK.

“I grew up in a Middle Eastern police state where I learned from a young age to be guarded in what I say and fearful of the consequences of speaking out. Having now made my home in the UK, in no small part to escape the stifling of human freedom in my country of birth, I confess that the sight and reports of arrests and police harassment of individuals expressing republican beliefs have been profoundly unsettling. I’ve warned my children to tread carefully and not express any views critical of the monarchy, given the belligerent intolerance demonstrated towards those calling for its abolition.”
 

Janice

Well-Known Member
A recent letter, published in The Guardian. Shares something of the current mood in the UK.

“I grew up in a Middle Eastern police state where I learned from a young age to be guarded in what I say and fearful of the consequences of speaking out. Having now made my home in the UK, in no small part to escape the stifling of human freedom in my country of birth, I confess that the sight and reports of arrests and police harassment of individuals expressing republican beliefs have been profoundly unsettling. I’ve warned my children to tread carefully and not express any views critical of the monarchy, given the belligerent intolerance demonstrated towards those calling for its abolition.”
Can you provide the link please?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
A recent letter, published in The Guardian. Shares something of the current mood in the UK.

“I grew up in a Middle Eastern police state where I learned from a young age to be guarded in what I say and fearful of the consequences of speaking out. Having now made my home in the UK, in no small part to escape the stifling of human freedom in my country of birth, I confess that the sight and reports of arrests and police harassment of individuals expressing republican beliefs have been profoundly unsettling. I’ve warned my children to tread carefully and not express any views critical of the monarchy, given the belligerent intolerance demonstrated towards those calling for its abolition.”
Very strange stance for a Smiths Morrissey fan to be posting articles from The Guardian.

It is also misinformation. The people who were arrested were arrested in Scotland because they were causing demonstrations as a coffin went passed when various senior politicians etc were in attendance. They weren’t arrested because of republican views.

The arrests were carried out by Police Scotland and the monarch has no control over policing methods anywhere.

So if you want to complain you could write to Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish Nationalist Government since she is in charge of Police Scotland.

These kind of issues have been happening for decades in relation to policing whether it be arrests of anti nuclear protestors, Black Lives Matter, women campaigning against violence etc etc

It isn’t specific to republicans.

All in favour of that debate but is protesting while someone’s coffin is going past the best way to invoke a democratic debate?
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Very strange stance for a Smiths Morrissey fan to be posting articles from The Guardian.

It is also misinformation. The people who were arrested were arrested in Scotland because they were causing demonstrations as a coffin went passed when various senior politicians etc were in attendance. They weren’t arrested because of republican views.

The arrests were carried out by Police Scotland and the monarch has no control over policing methods anywhere.

So if you want to complain you could write to Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish Nationalist Government since she is in charge of Police Scotland.

These kind of issues have been happening for decades in relation to policing whether it be arrests of anti nuclear protestors, Black Lives Matter, women campaigning against violence etc etc

It isn’t specific to republicans.

All in favour of that debate but is protesting while someone’s coffin is going past the best way to invoke a democratic debate?

agree, it can be seen as disrespectful. Were they trying to invoke a democratic debate? There’ll be some kind of ‘debate’ or at least conversation stirred as we see here.

I think some are just desperate to bring attention to their cause, whatever it may be.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
agree, it can be seen as disrespectful. Were they trying to invoke a democratic debate? There’ll be some kind of ‘debate’ or at least conversation stirred as we see here.

I think some are just desperate to bring attention to their cause, whatever it may be.
Not sure it would be a very successful way.

People posting about it on here won’t progress very much. The way to do it is to get it debated in parliament via the usual official petition process.

To succeed in getting support whatever way the debate is pushed requires getting public opinion on board and it may well have the opposite effect to cause protest disturbances at events around someone’s funeral.
 

spent

Well-Known Member
There was a strange interview on bbc with a young guy in Green Park who looked and talked like Morrissey the younger. I think it was the day when the coffin was flown in from Edinburgh. He said that he wasnt there to partake in any "pivotal moment" in history, but because he loved the queen so much and so dearly. I'm sure it wasnt a dream.
 
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Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Not sure it would be a very successful way.

People posting about it on here won’t progress very much. The way to do it is to get it debated in parliament via the usual official petition process.

To succeed in getting support whatever way the debate is pushed requires getting public opinion on board and it may well have the opposite effect to cause protest disturbances at events around someone’s funeral.

I don’t believe all protesters believe in official channels. Their point and only avenue seems to be to make a disturbance, and draw attention to their cause, or stir up any conversation anywhere.

And here we are, so it worked.
 

TheSmiths_1985

Moved to off-topic
There was a strange interview on bbc with a young guy in Green Park who looked and talked like Morrissey the younger. I think it was the day when the coffin was flown in from Edinburgh. He said that he wasnt there to partake in any "pivotal moment" in history, but because he loved the queen so much and dearly. I'm sure it wasnt a dream.
Probably just to take a video of himself walking past the coffin, to post on Tiktok for likes.
 

spent

Well-Known Member
Probably just to take a video of himself walking past the coffin, to post on Tiktok for likes.
He talked quite authentically, a likeable guy, a bit lighter in hair colour though.
I thought mobiles are not allowed inside the hall.
I wondered whether anybody else watched this interview?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I don’t believe all protesters believe in official channels. Their point and only avenue seems to be to make a disturbance, and draw attention to their cause, or stir up any conversation anywhere.

And here we are, so it worked.
I don’t think it worked. We aren’t talking about their cause but about them being arrested so the focus here has been them causing a disturbance and their arrest and no mention of their actual cause so it’s pretty much failed really to get attention in any positive way for their cause.

The guy that got arrested in Edinburgh wasn’t a republican. He was shouting abuse at Prince Andrew and was then tackled to the ground by members of the public. And I’m only aware of another arrest in Edinburgh which was a woman who was charged with breach of the peace and released who was a republican campaigner. There may have been others but I’ve not heard who/what/why.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
He talked quite authetically, a likeable guy, a bit lighter in hair colour though.
I thought mobiles are not allowed inside the hall.
I wondered whether anybody else watched this interview?
Was it the guy who was talking about the charity work he did during lockdowns?

You are right camera and phone use isn’t allowed inside and it is strict.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
NME: Songs about the Queen see spike in streaming.


The Smiths’ 1986 song ‘The Queen Is Dead’ saw the biggest uptick in streaming numbers, rising by 1,687 per cent.

FWD.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
I don’t think it worked. We aren’t talking about their cause but about them being arrested so the focus here has been them causing a disturbance and their arrest and no mention of their actual cause so it’s pretty much failed really to get attention in any positive way for their cause.
Ah ok, not really following this thread. But elsewhere, where people are interested in political concerns I’m sure it started some conversation.
The guy that got arrested in Edinburgh wasn’t a republican.
oh I never brought up or was I interested in their political leanings.
He was shouting abuse at Prince Andrew and was then tackled to the ground by members of the public.
Guess he had his reasons.
And I’m only aware of another arrest in Edinburgh which was a woman who was charged with breach of the peace and released who was a republican campaigner. There may have been others but I’ve not heard who/what/why.
ok.

Interesting that NME article on spike of plays. I guess those listeners have their reasons.
 
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Les Tameside

Guest
I don’t think it worked. We aren’t talking about their cause but about them being arrested so the focus here has been them causing a disturbance and their arrest and no mention of their actual cause so it’s pretty much failed really to get attention in any positive way for their cause.

The guy that got arrested in Edinburgh wasn’t a republican. He was shouting abuse at Prince Andrew and was then tackled to the ground by members of the public. And I’m only aware of another arrest in Edinburgh which was a woman who was charged with breach of the peace and released who was a republican campaigner. There may have been others but I’ve not heard who/what/why.
You couldn’t have put ketz’s case better yourself. I thank you.
 
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Les Tameside

Guest
“Prince Andrew was allowed to wear his uniform for the occasion, despite being stripped of his military titles”

Yes. We could’ve told the BBC that would happen a year ago. When they were telling the license fee payer it would “never” happen.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ah ok, not really following this thread. But elsewhere, where people are interested in political concerns I’m sure it started some conversation.

oh I never brought up or was I interested in their political leanings.

Guess he had his reasons.

ok.

Interesting that NME article on spike of plays. I guess those listeners have their reasons.
Spike of plays doesn’t mean those plays are from anti monarchists. Could be for many reasons. I have read and googled many articles regarding republican activity and views this week so a simple look at stats on that would see also a spike but that doesn’t mean I am a republican or have any interest in being one. Same applies to plays of queen related songs. That song and the Sex Pistols song has been played in this household in the past week for the first time in many years and again no one here has any interest in republicanism. Of course there will be republicans you have played it but I suspect many plays will just be people from the “I don’t care” category or people being curious about the song. A 1,600% rise in plays doesn’t mean there has been that % rise in interest in republicanism or anti monarchy sentiment.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
You couldn’t have put ketz’s case better yourself. I thank you.
If you think that is putting a case forward better I guess their cause will be hopeless with that kind of campaigning.

I have discussed those arrests a few times here.

I have said many times I am happy for that cause to be debated publicly. I am not against democratic debate. It should be debated and the role of monarchy should be debated.

All I have been doing is pointing out your complete inaccuracies re you associating anything and everything with blame on the monarchy which has always been nothing under their control and clarifying their financial/state tax positions.

Debates centred around inaccurate suppositions aren’t great debates so let the real facts be known and then debate them. All for it.

That discussion re the role of monarchy and whether a more cut back monarchy should be aimed at has been discussed many times on the BBC over the past week so the discussion is being had and no one is blocking it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Doesn't the UK have stricter speech laws and disturbing the peace laws than the US? Esp. Scotland? A British friend of mine used to always ask me why Trump was never arrested for 'hate speech' and he could never seem to understand we don't have 'hate speech' here, it's all free speech, with a few exceptions.

The spike in plays of The Queen is Dead and God Save The Queen are not any evidence that people who are listening are anti monarcy, or anti queen. Those songs aren't really even about TQ, they are about England, the decay and decline. Johnny Rotten has even said he wanted to name GSTQ 'No Future", but Malcolm McLaren insisted on the title being GSTQ.

It's very shocking to me to see Americans trying to tell Brits how to live and what they should want or like, since we hate it when people from other countries do it to us. The monarchy is literally none of our business, we fought a war to get away from it and now we have Americans saying it should be gone :lbf:
It is gone for us, duh. Leave the Brits alone, esp over the death of their monarch. Some people have no couth.
Breach of the Peace is basically something anyone can be charged with if the police consider the person to have been causing a public disturbance. It covers acts done that cause harm to someone or could lead to harm being done relating to disturbances in a community.

Hatred legislation covers specific forms of hate written or spoken.

The law recognises five types of hate crime on the basis of:

  • Race
  • Religion
  • Disability
  • Sexual orientation
  • Transgender identity
Any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime if the offender has either:

  • demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity
Or

  • been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity
Yes these laws don’t exist the US but very much in place and enforced in the UK.
 

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