Prince Charles to visit Salford Lads Club - Thursdy 4th Feb

[Dave2006]

Dave
Don't forget she's already paid back £13,000

Jukebox Jury

I've got a soft spot for Hazel, so I might be biased here...

But I think I'm one of the few people in the country that thinks the whole expenses row is a load of old tosh. Individual MPs are being blamed for going along with a system that was set up by Thatcher years ago - she made it clear to MPs that the public would not swallow high profile large pay rises for MPs (even though she thought they deserved it) so she set up a system whereby salaries would be supplements by expense.

It's a completely potty system, but it's what was there. Everyone knew what was happening - MPs, press etc. It wasn't until there was a recession and public expenditure became tight that the press thought they'd make an issue of it. They've taken a holier than thou approach to it which sticks - as Stephen Fry said journalists are some of the worst people around for fiddling their expenses.

If you compare the salaries of other high profile public servants - say local authority Chief Execs - then MPs salaries simply haven't kept pace.

In 1997 an MP would have earned roughly the same as a local authority Chief Exec, if not a little bit more. These days you will struggle to find a CE that earns less than £100,000 yet an MPs basic salary is about £65,000. I've known a few MPs over the years and they work bloody hard for their £65k. A lot harder than a lot of top public servants that earn a lot more than they do. And when you add up the fact that they have to split their lives (and their families) in two by spending half their life in London and half in the constituency... then £65k is a joke.

Why would a good quality lawyer / headteacher / public servant / doctor / entrepreneur etc... give up their current job which is better paid to stand for election, to serve in Parliament, to serve their constituents, to put up with long hours and crappy lives for the sake of £65k?

If we want a system whereby the public are represented by talented and committed people in parliament, then we need to pay for it. Otherwise, we simply attract those who are rich enough to not need the salary (think of half the Tory front bench...) or those that simply don't cut the mustard (insert countless names here...) and parliament spirals into a laughing stock.

There, rant over. I've got an essay to write...

Dave

 

[Jukebox Jury]

I've got a soft spot for Hazel, so I might be biased here...

But I think I'm one of the few people in the country that thinks the whole expenses row is a load of old tosh. Individual MPs are being blamed for going along with a system that was set up by Thatcher years ago - she made it clear to MPs that the public would not swallow high profile large pay rises for MPs (even though she thought they deserved it) so she set up a system whereby salaries would be supplements by expense.

It's a completely potty system, but it's what was there. Everyone knew what was happening - MPs, press etc. It wasn't until there was a recession and public expenditure became tight that the press thought they'd make an issue of it. They've taken a holier than thou approach to it which sticks - as Stephen Fry said journalists are some of the worst people around for fiddling their expenses.

If you compare the salaries of other high profile public servants - say local authority Chief Execs - then MPs salaries simply haven't kept pace.

In 1997 an MP would have earned roughly the same as a local authority Chief Exec, if not a little bit more. These days you will struggle to find a CE that earns less than £100,000 yet an MPs basic salary is about £65,000. I've known a few MPs over the years and they work bloody hard for their £65k. A lot harder than a lot of top public servants that earn a lot more than they do. And when you add up the fact that they have to split their lives (and their families) in two by spending half their life in London and half in the constituency... then £65k is a joke.

Why would a good quality lawyer / headteacher / public servant / doctor / entrepreneur etc... give up their current job which is better paid to stand for election, to serve in Parliament, to serve their constituents, to put up with long hours and crappy lives for the sake of £65k?

If we want a system whereby the public are represented by talented and committed people in parliament, then we need to pay for it. Otherwise, we simply attract those who are rich enough to not need the salary (think of half the Tory front bench...) or those that simply don't cut the mustard (insert countless names here...) and parliament spirals into a laughing stock.

There, rant over. I've got an essay to write...

Dave

Yes it was the Tory's under Thatch that created the current system and yes compared with Council employees (isn't Bernstein at Manchester on £200k a year plus?) they are not paid comparably.
But....a good minority of them have clearly had their noses in the troughs..... like the married couple pair, with a house in their constituency and one in London and one claiming one was their second home and one the other. This was no error but a deliberate attempt to milk the system (yes, within ''the rules'', but the rules they created).
I agree with you also that since when have journalists been the moral leaders of the nation..... they are the (well, again, a good minority of them) dispicable characters.

Jukebox Jury

 

[Bluebirds]

Crikey this thread has it all:

Monarchy, republicanism, MPs expenses, the Japanese system of government, Islam, Communism, William of Orange, the English Civil War, John Terry (oh ahng on)

Great stuff. Just to add yes it was another figment of the media's imagination ref MPs expenses which they've managed to whip up quite expertly.
I mean who hasn't at one time or another embroidered an expenses claim if you are in a position to do so? Admittedly my £15 meal allowance spent on booze is hardly in the same class but....

However that flipping houses malarkey is just plain wrong. And I got a £1500 list from Argos when I had to relocate for a bed and basics like a settee. Not £xxxxx from JOHN LEWIS.

 

[Dave2006]

Crikey this thread has it all:

Monarchy, republicanism, MPs expenses, the Japanese system of government, Islam, Communism, William of Orange, the English Civil War, John Terry (oh ahng on)

Great stuff. Just to add yes it was another figment of the media's imagination ref MPs expenses which they've managed to whip up quite expertly.
I mean who hasn't at one time or another embroidered an expenses claim if you are in a position to do so? Admittedly my £15 meal allowance spent on booze is hardly in the same class but....

However that flipping houses malarkey is just plain wrong. And I got a £1500 list from Argos when I had to relocate for a bed and basics like a settee. Not £xxxxx from JOHN LEWIS.

Ahhh Remember the 'John Lewis List' http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/mar/13/houseofcommons

Imagine, you are elected as a new MP; you go to HoC on day one, and go home to a travelodge that night, by day three you have found your office, got a pass, dared to go into the debating chamber, and someone from the fees office has given you a list from John Lewis for you to furnish a new house.

That night in your motel you flick through the catalogue... Dining Chairs, check. Carpet, check. Workstation, check. Shredder - GOT TO HAVE A SHREDDER!!!!

Dave

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

I was talking about the people on here, not at SLC.

The people at SLC complained when the Smiths took that photo, so I would never consider them Morrissey people. I have a different name for them.

Ah right.

I still stand by the sentiment though. SLC can do what they like really.

And just to be clear, I'm not one of 'Morrissey's People' either. I'm my own person. Everyone else should be too.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

People who don't like having a manarchy in 2010 should go live in China or Pakistan - go now, see what you get

Erm, can I point you in the direction of Saudi Arabia?

They have a monarchy & also happen to be one of the most evil regimes in the world.

 

[lainey]

My solution? King Harry - The Royal Reality Show

Nostradamus predicted that Harry will succeed both William and Charles to become king.

 

[Jukebox Jury]

Nostradamus predicted that Harry will succeed both William and Charles to become king.

Yes, but he also said that City would win the FA Cup in 2009

Jukebox Jury

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Erm, can I point you in the direction of Saudi Arabia?

They have a monarchy & also happen to be one of the most evil regimes in the world.

Saudi Arabia, created by primarily British imperialist interests and thus thwarting Arab unification and the dreams of T.E. Lawrence
really, much of "non cold war" history is a result of this crime
which has then only been further perpetuated by the USA as we took over "British interests around the world"
people here in America and many in the UK, always seem to forget that Osama and many other Arab extremists only target us because we perpetuate Saudi and lesser Arab tyrants
when I look back on my time in the Gulf in 90 and 91, seeing how truly despicable the Saudi government was and cowardly their soldiers were
really, we should have liberated not just Iraq, but the majority of people in Arabia as well!


ps: another likely outcome of a united Arab state would have been the much reduced likeliehood of the Arab-Israeli conflict, since Arab unity would have been a fact rather than something so close associated with a unity in hatred
which is the poorest of substitutes for actual the security they so desperately desire, still
once again, thx British, then us Americans

 

[lainey]

which quatrain was that, Lainey? lol or maybe you are serious.

I read about this years ago. I don't what you mean by quatrain but either way I couldn't give a rat's arse about the royals

 

[Jukebox Jury]

I read about this years ago. I don't what you mean by quatrain but either way I couldn't give a rat's arse about the royals

What about Joe Royle? Or Jim Royle?

Jukebox Jury

 

[lainey]

What about Joe Royle? Or Jim Royle?

Jukebox Jury

very good JJ.
I didn't like the Christmas special, the show is nothing now Nan has gone.
The characters are stuck at been unintelligent, not a good sterotype for the working classes. I assumed they were been homophobic in the special because there was a storyline about Anthony or a mate however it seems they were just been homophobic because that's how we are or how they think we are.

 

[I am a Ghost]

TV star Ricky Tomlinson may stand as MP in protest 6/02/2010

Royle Family star Ricky Tomlinson is considering standing in the General Election as a protest.

Ricky, 70 - famous for his "my a***" catchphrase as TV's Jim Royle - would fight Labour candidate Luciana Berger, 28.

He is unhappy that the Londoner has been "parachuted" into the Liverpool Wavertree constituency.

Ms Berger even admitted she had never heard of legendary Liverpool football manager Bill Shankly. If selected, Ricky would stand for the left-wing Socialist Labour Party.

 

[All Over Battersea]

I read about this years ago. I don't what you mean by quatrain but either way I couldn't give a rat's arse about the royals

I'm involved with a community radio station in Crewe, and amongst the guidelines we've had from OFCOM are some instructions about what to do if her majesty should pass away whilst we're on air. We're told that we would need to be suitably solemn and reverential, and that no 'inappropriate' music should be played.

I have of course said that TQID is the only track that we should play in those circumstances, but our programming manager isn't having it!

 

[Bluebirds]

I'm involved with a community radio station in Crewe, and amongst the guidelines we've had from OFCOM are some instructions about what to do if her majesty should pass away whilst we're on air.

If you thought Princess Di's death was a bit OTT I think the country will probaly come to a standstill for a month as Lizzie is one of the UK's longest "serving" monarchs. Still a week of national mourning sounds like a plan....she's still going strong though. You never hear that she's been ill even I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW HER PRIVILEGED LIFESTYLE IS THE SOURCE OF SUCH GOOD HEALTH

 

[lainey]

TV star Ricky Tomlinson may stand as MP in protest 6/02/2010

Royle Family star Ricky Tomlinson is considering standing in the General Election as a protest.

Ricky, 70 - famous for his "my a***" catchphrase as TV's Jim Royle - would fight Labour candidate Luciana Berger, 28.

He is unhappy that the Londoner has been "parachuted" into the Liverpool Wavertree constituency.

Ms Berger even admitted she had never heard of legendary Liverpool football manager Bill Shankly. If selected, Ricky would stand for the left-wing Socialist Labour Party.

He's a good man....a trade union man

 

[Hellie]

He's a good man....a trade union man

Got dodgy taste in frozen food though. Farm Foods...my arse.

 

[ADAMJOHNSON]

He's a good man....a trade union man

yep hes good mates with my dad he came to his 60th last year.i got told off for being drunk and saying "its our ricky the racist,grassing up his pal dessie warren" i think ricky was gonna cane me, but it didnt happen fortunately!

Oh my god ive just realized. I had a bet years ago with my old fellow that the socialist party would never get a seat in the house of commons.........is he really running? personally i gave up voting for them years ago, probably about the time Sutch hung himself.they were very happy with this as sutch and the beanzie meanzie man were fierce opposition.....

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

He's a good man....a trade union man

That's hardly a recommendation.

That said, back when I lived in Chesterfield, Labour did the same thing when Tony Benn retired; got someone from nowhere near. I'm no fan of the Lib Dems either but I was cheering as loudly as anyone when Paul Holmes handed Labour's arse to them.

And when George Galloway got in in London come to think of it.

 

[murder and desire]

That's hardly a recommendation.

That said, back when I lived in Chesterfield, Labour did the same thing when Tony Benn retired; got someone from nowhere near. I'm no fan of the Lib Dems either but I was cheering as loudly as anyone when Paul Holmes handed Labour's arse to them.

And when George Galloway got in in London come to think of it.

It would be nice of Morrissey did a gig for the lads club.
I think charles would be aware of Moz, Diana once asked for a signed photo, Morrissey didn't send one