Post Whatever You Are Thinking At This Very Moment

[Peppermint]

that's the opposite of me, everything feels ten times worse after ive written something. any other person might take this as a sign that they shouldn't be a writer but I have this great confidence in my ability to figure out how to do something even if it takes me 10 years.
I do wish you'd give us some hint about your novel. like what genre is it? how many pages? what kind of characters? what point of view do you use? even if you think it's a bad one, it's still cool to say you wrote a novel.

Oh God, that IS a struggle. At least I get something out of it, even if the process is torture. Why does it make you feel worse? Is it because the end product isn't what you hoped for? I admit I do feel a similar frustration - 'I should be able to do this' - and it's partly this stubborn refusal to accept I'm no good at it which keeps me trying, trying, trying again.

To be fair, the trying and trying has made a difference - I have definitely improved, and it's made me more aware of what I should be doing. Every book I read, I find myself analysing how it's constructed, why it works better than mine. It's a little depressing but also interesting, and useful.

There are some great online resources which I've found helpful. Jericho Writers I think is one of the best:
https://jerichowriters.com/plotting-a-novel/
But I've also found these useful:
https://thewritelife.com/how-to-write-a-good-story/
https://www.nownovel.com/blog/develop-story-10-ways-write-better-plots/
https://www.nownovel.com/blog/how-to-plot-novel/

And for all-round good advice, I found this hard to beat (and really funny)
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2011/06/20/25-things-you-should-know-about-writing-a-novel/

The first one I wrote was about a man who was abnormally kind. There, bored already, huh? I wanted to explore the deeper, darker motivations behind kindness in some erudite and engaging way. What I actually ended up with was an improbable yarn which featured sibling rivalry, beetroot, bees, bad sex, a horrific childhood secret and a comical dog murder.

The one I'm currently beating myself up over is the story of a house over a period of about 140 years. I've always been fascinated by older buildings because it seems to me like you can sense - almost smell - the other lives who've lived there, like they seep into the brickwork and plaster and become part of it. To me, that's the main reason why older houses are more interesting - they have literally 'lived' - and the house witnesses all of it. So it's the story of all the occupants, but with the house as narrator. But the house itself is a waspish, narcissistic character who bitches and moans and gossips about everybody, which gives another layer to the story. And of course there is a link between all the occupants (or there should be, but I'm not convinced mine is strong/clever enough). I'm sure in the hands of a more competent writer it could work but I'm struggling to get movement into it, so it feels a bit static.

Oh God, now I have written a novel on novels. Apologies.

What do you write about, Rifke, when you manage to? And what is it you're hoping to create/achieve?

 

[Peppermint]

baklava?!?! but that's the magic word!!

Exactly. It's like 'Would you like to see some puppies?' for grown-ups.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

I’m moving in just over 10 weeks, time to downsize my shit, it’s a sizable amount again with my step dad dying in June of last year, hard getting rid of stuff that I bought for him but is now mine

 

[URBANUS]

yeah, I could write an encyclopaedia about all the old Swedish people your dad knew (apparently).

I always told him "the monkey knows everyone but no one knows the monkey". He just stumbled into people and was never able to feel starstruck.

 

[URBANUS]

One person will analyse something (Like I do now and then) and two people will do their analysis. I thought ANALysis was the number one sport for 12 inch.

 

[Peppermint]

I’m moving in just over 10 weeks, time to downsize my shit, it’s a sizable amount again with my dad dying in June of last year, hard getting rid of stuff that I bought for him but is now mine

Oh Robby, that's very sad. Some of these mileposts in life are very testing, aren't they? My folks are still healthy but old, so I'm dreading that stuff. I downsized myself a year or so ago, which stirred up a whole load of feelings because of the things you have to get rid of. Shredding a load of paperwork, I realised even the old bank statements told a story: that was when I was pregnant, that was when I was paying the nursery bills, that's when I was getting divorced. Hope the move goes well and you're happy in your new place.

 

[Anonymous]

It’s a good day as the universe just keeps on giving. Cohen has been subpoenaed by ny to give info on the trump foundation and people are now looking the trump organization over the false invoices used to pay Cohen

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Oh Robby, that's very sad. Some of these mileposts in life are very testing, aren't they? My folks are still healthy but old, so I'm dreading that stuff. I downsized myself a year or so ago, which stirred up a whole load of feelings because of the things you have to get rid of. Shredding a load of paperwork, I realised even the old bank statements told a story: that was when I was pregnant, that was when I was paying the nursery bills, that's when I was getting divorced. Hope the move goes well and you're happy in your new place.

Thanks, it’s a very different environment, up in the mountains, tiny town, close to a large Native American Reservation, very different, I’m looking at it as a year long experiment, if I can take the winter there, it’s a great place to live in many ways...

 

[URBANUS]

Thanks, it’s a very different environment, up in the mountains, tiny town, close to a large Native American Reservation, very different, I’m looking at it as a year long experiment, if I can take the winter there, it’s a great place to live in many ways...

So you have moved again?

I thought you had plans to go abroad and what will you be doing there?

I thought your long drive was to get that operation on your eyes.

 

[URBANUS]

I’m moving in just over 10 weeks, time to downsize my shit, it’s a sizable amount again with my dad dying in June of last year, hard getting rid of stuff that I bought for him but is now mine

I thought your dad passed away ages ago and now I find he only did last year!

Tell me about having things left over from other people and I inherited things from about three people and I'd not recommend that to anyone. There is a thin line between a normal home and it turning into a flea market.

 

[URBANUS]

Everyone is downsizing ahead of the financial meltdown collapse on Monday October 8. The world will never be the same again.
Even in sports clubs have been reluctant to splash the cash cause every owner knows what is coming. The latest attack on Trump is just a breeze ahead of October 8.
I am gonna watch it all unfold online with my money locked up in a safe.

 

[URBANUS]

Oh Robby, that's very sad. Some of these mileposts in life are very testing, aren't they? My folks are still healthy but old, so I'm dreading that stuff. I downsized myself a year or so ago, which stirred up a whole load of feelings because of the things you have to get rid of. Shredding a load of paperwork, I realised even the old bank statements told a story: that was when I was pregnant, that was when I was paying the nursery bills, that's when I was getting divorced. Hope the move goes well and you're happy in your new place.

There's a hoarder inside of everyone but the feeling of throwing away things is so liberating. I did that not long ago before I left my home country for good and I felt nothing but relief.
But I fully understand you cause memories associated with being pregnant and that is perhaps the strongest memories a person can have.
It's true that you never mature if you never have kids and I am just another Peter Pan looking for a Michael Jackson tree to loiter in all day. I sometimes miss the 5 storey up view from my ghetto when I watched people coming and going to the music of Morrissey and The Smiths, the best videos always played out before my very eyes.
I need a watchtower and the feeling of safety high up above the ground.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Poor Asia Argento, seducing a 17 year old 5 years ago and now being subject of so much abuse, what’d she think
that she was a man?

 

[bhops]

Poor Asia Argento, seducing a 17 year old 5 years ago and now being subject of so much abuse, what’d she think
that she was a man?

No, just another self entitled lunatic. Check out her IG, she is waaaaaayyyyy out there. Nothing could've surprised me less when I heard this news.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Oh God, that IS a struggle. At least I get something out of it, even if the process is torture. Why does it make you feel worse? Is it because the end product isn't what you hoped for? I admit I do feel a similar frustration - 'I should be able to do this' - and it's partly this stubborn refusal to accept I'm no good at it which keeps me trying, trying, trying again.

To be fair, the trying and trying has made a difference - I have definitely improved, and it's made me more aware of what I should be doing. Every book I read, I find myself analysing how it's constructed, why it works better than mine. It's a little depressing but also interesting, and useful.

There are some great online resources which I've found helpful. Jericho Writers I think is one of the best:
https://jerichowriters.com/plotting-a-novel/
But I've also found these useful:
https://thewritelife.com/how-to-write-a-good-story/
https://www.nownovel.com/blog/develop-story-10-ways-write-better-plots/
https://www.nownovel.com/blog/how-to-plot-novel/

And for all-round good advice, I found this hard to beat (and really funny)
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2011/06/20/25-things-you-should-know-about-writing-a-novel/

The first one I wrote was about a man who was abnormally kind. There, bored already, huh? I wanted to explore the deeper, darker motivations behind kindness in some erudite and engaging way. What I actually ended up with was an improbable yarn which featured sibling rivalry, beetroot, bees, bad sex, a horrific childhood secret and a comical dog murder.

The one I'm currently beating myself up over is the story of a house over a period of about 140 years. I've always been fascinated by older buildings because it seems to me like you can sense - almost smell - the other lives who've lived there, like they seep into the brickwork and plaster and become part of it. To me, that's the main reason why older houses are more interesting - they have literally 'lived' - and the house witnesses all of it. So it's the story of all the occupants, but with the house as narrator. But the house itself is a waspish, narcissistic character who bitches and moans and gossips about everybody, which gives another layer to the story. And of course there is a link between all the occupants (or there should be, but I'm not convinced mine is strong/clever enough). I'm sure in the hands of a more competent writer it could work but I'm struggling to get movement into it, so it feels a bit static.

Oh God, now I have written a novel on novels. Apologies.

What do you write about, Rifke, when you manage to? And what is it you're hoping to create/achieve?

oh no, don't apologize, peppermint! that's awesome. and thanks for those links, they're hopefully going to be a big help.

what, the first story sounds awesome! very original and like it could be quite funny too (is it?). I've always felt there were deep dark motivations behind people who are too kind (not the genuinely understatedly kind types, but the effusively kind type of people). someone should bloody well explore that. and you strike me as having just the right kind of cleverness to be able to do it right. did you ever let anyone else read it, for an objective opinion? it might be better than you think!

your second idea also sounds pretty great. you've got some good ideas there! I totally know what you mean about houses. I feel that way about cities too, when I'm walking along an empty city street at night, it's like I can feel the spirit of all the people who lived there, layers and layers of people and I get very nostalgic, for times that I didn't even live in. at times like those I can understand how people marry walls and such (lol).

why does it make me feel worse? well, I don't know really. theres just so much chaos when I first start writing, I mean so many angles you have to consider, just too much to be worked through. but I also feel like, working with words, I'm not working with anything substantial. I don't have faith that pouring ideas out of your brain onto a piece of paper can ever amount to anything. it just feels like stagnant work. and also, like with life itself, I feel like there's something I'm not getting. some centre or lynchpin that forever eludes me. how to choreograph space and time? I don't know how to do it in writing any more than I know how to do it in life.

I would like to create something, oh, I don't know, a little off. I think what I want to do is dissect reality in a way, the way that filmmakers like Antonioni and tarkovsky do. if a tarkovsky film were to be a novel how would it read? that's what I'm interested in. also, in exploring emotions and describing them. I'm more interested in word-art, I think, than I am in being a storyteller. but if I were to be a story teller I would like to create a story modeled after people I love that honours them in a way. there's this Hebrew quote I love:
and a voice commands 'write!'
for whom?
for the dead, whom thou didst love.

that's the best reason I can think of to be a writer.

what do I hope to achieve? millions of dollars and tea with Morrissey, naturally!

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Exactly. It's like 'Would you like to see some puppies?' for grown-ups.

and the answer is "YES! yes I WOULD!"

you do what you want, peppermint, but I'm going with the guy who has puppies and baklava. EVERY TIME.

 

[Peppermint]

oh no, don't apologize, peppermint! that's awesome. and thanks for those links, they're hopefully going to be a big help.

what, the first story sounds awesome! very original and like it could be quite funny too (is it?). I've always felt there were deep dark motivations behind people who are too kind (not the genuinely understatedly kind types, but the effusively kind type of people). someone should bloody well explore that. and you strike me as having just the right kind of cleverness to be able to do it right. did you ever let anyone else read it, for an objective opinion? it might be better than you think!

your second idea also sounds pretty great. you've got some good ideas there! I totally know what you mean about houses. I feel that way about cities too, when I'm walking along an empty city street at night, it's like I can feel the spirit of all the people who lived there, layers and layers of people and I get very nostalgic, for times that I didn't even live in. at times like those I can understand how people marry walls and such (lol).

why does it make me feel worse? well, I don't know really. theres just so much chaos when I first start writing, I mean so many angles you have to consider, just too much to be worked through. but I also feel like, working with words, I'm not working with anything substantial. I don't have faith that pouring ideas out of your brain onto a piece of paper can ever amount to anything. it just feels like stagnant work. and also, like with life itself, I feel like there's something I'm not getting. some centre or lynchpin that forever eludes me. how to choreograph space and time? I don't know how to do it in writing any more than I know how to do it in life.

I would like to create something, oh, I don't know, a little off. I think what I want to do is dissect reality in a way, the way that filmmakers like Antonioni and tarkovsky do. if a tarkovsky film were to be a novel how would it read? that's what I'm interested in. also, in exploring emotions and describing them. I'm more interested in word-art, I think, than I am in being a storyteller. but if I were to be a story teller I would like to create a story modeled after people I love that honours them in a way. there's this Hebrew quote I love:
and a voice commands 'write!'
for whom?
for the dead, whom thou didst love.

that's the best reason I can think of to be a writer.

what do I hope to achieve? millions of dollars and tea with Morrissey, naturally!

You can certainly create that 'left field' vibe with words (Kleinzeit by Russell Hoban springs to mind - not very long, very readable, funny but completely surreal), but if you want to be read there has to be a story to take people with you. Something I'm slowly learning to do (it doesn't come naturally) is to come at a story sideways, and to leave gaps for the reader to fill in/ponder over; not only does this make it much more interesting but it's a route into, I'm guessing, that left field vibe you want. Don't start at the beginning, that's the thing. (It's only taken me 30 years to learn that )

Honouring others is a great place to start. I love books which blend fiction with actual people and events - I really enjoyed The Life and Opinions of Maf the Dog, and of His Friend Marilyn Monroe by Andrew O'Hagen, and also Arthur and George by Julian Barnes (about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle). The trouble with a novel is that it's so f***ing huge and unwieldy - choreographing space and time seems to sum it up perfectly. Just when you think you've got it all tied up, there's another bit that just won't fit convincingly, no matter what you do (as in life, like you say). You could try starting with a short story - that way there's less pressure to create something epic, and it's a much more manageable format, but you still get to experiment with style and plot.

I understand what you mean about a missing lynchpin. I spent many years feeling that way myself - skating, I would think of it, never quite managing to plant my feet or grab on to something like all the other people - but now I'm not so sure it's necessary to have all the answers in order to create something good. After all, look at all the great writers who have been sociopathic weirdos

Ah, no, I'm sure the first one wasn't better than I thought. I did give it to a friend to read, who didn't make it past chapter 3 which probably told me everything I needed to know The description I wrote makes it sound much better than it is. I didn't let the characters, or the ideas behind them, unfold properly, I was just desperate to make all these people 'do things' to fill up the pages. But I'm glad you like the idea behind it, maybe I'll revisit it one day when I've learned how to write better.

 

[Peppermint]

I went to school with Helen Bailey, the children's author who got murdered by her fiance who then hid her body in the cesspit of their home. She's in all my school photos from age 5. The trial was last year and he got put away for life, but they've just arrested him for the murder of his first wife. I really hope they nail the evil bastard. Helen was a sweet, gentle person and deserved so much better.

 

[Amy]

I went to school with Helen Bailey, the children's author who got murdered by her fiance who then hid her body in the cesspit of their home. She's in all my school photos from age 5. The trial was last year and he got put away for life, but they've just arrested him for the murder of his first wife. I really hope they nail the evil bastard. Helen was a sweet, gentle person and deserved so much better.

Heartbreaking for any person to have their life taken by such a creature, but it's a sickening, sickening thought that he may have done it twice and thought he'd gotten away with it. Cowardly, envious, worthless little man who deserves to spend the rest of his days in a dark pit. The existence of people like that makes me question my faith.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Heartbreaking for any person to have their life taken by such a creature, but it's a sickening, sickening thought that he may have done it twice and thought he'd gotten away with it. Cowardly, envious, worthless little man who deserves to spend the rest of his days in a dark pit. I'm really intrigued. A person's choice of covers say a lot more than most would assumeI'm really intrigued. A person's choice of covers say a lot more than most would assumeThe existence of people like that makes me question my faith.

‘ The existence of people like that makes me question my faith.’

Well, then, something good came out of this after all.