Political posters in New York

Discussion in 'General Discussion archive 2016 (read-only)' started by Uncleskinny, May 7, 2016.

By Uncleskinny on May 7, 2016 at 1:08 PM
  1. Uncleskinny

    Uncleskinny It's all good Subscriber

    Jun 1, 2000
    On the moors
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2016
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    1. Derek17
      Re: Posters in New York

      Sure he's being a dick there but we don't have to deny that the reporter is disabled. He was portraying a character and maybe you think he did a shitty job. But it's just a joke.

      I certainly hate being a pariah and I think I'd be pretty miserable if I had to be shielded from jokes just because of superficial traits. In fact I know this to be the case. Nothing should be off limits really, with rare exceptions and depending on the context of course. Trump does have to ease into more of a presidential role to be sure.

      Our culture is dominated by political correctness and whether Trump is sometimes crude or not this is another issue he is blowing wide open. Leftist hysterics find it hard to deal with and are so quick to tell people what they can and can't say. It's got to change.
    2. Derek17
      Re: Posters in New York

      You missed part of the quote. It was conveniently left out. Go watch the video of his speech and you'll see the part I'm referring to.

      And there is evidence that people are being directed to the border. America is a dumping ground. This is not a revelation.
    3. Anonymous
      Re: Posters in New York

      in all fairness, and im not a trump supporter, everyone said trump couldnt win anything anywhere and not onoy did he but he did so soundly. there is a possibility that he can beat clinton which is scary to me for reasons of inexperience among many others. i would seriously hope that others in foreign countries take this seriously as from what ive read many were doubtful then about his winning the nomination and seem to be overly confident even now about his eventual loss. people here are really pissed off. as for misquotes, to my sadness, there have been a bunch of seemingly purposeful misquotes seemingly aimed at diminishing his leads and they were all very heavy handed in the internet age. from people trying to use there cars to block entrance to his rallies and so on.

      an article on leftest intolerance from the new york times

      and one on why theres no conversation about lestest violence from the federalist

      "If a mob of conservatives attempted to shut down a major Hillary Clinton event, as rioters did the other day during a Donald Trump event, America would be thrust into an insufferable national dialogue about the growing violent tendencies of the Right to crush debate. There would be a flood of anxious op-ed pieces and cable news roundtables featuring chin-stroking pundits contemplating the future of discourse in America. No one would be spared."

      the opening paragraph. its a revolution of course is probably thye answer from sanders fans
    4. evennow
      What Trump has done is tapped into the pulse of many Americans who feel disenfranchised and left out of the political process. Obama had his "Yes We Can" battle cry and Trump has his "America First". Like his style or not this resonates strongly to those who feel it's time to put the issues affecting our society and economy in the spotlight. Many have been vocal about US involvement in international affairs. Well he is putting forth ideas to get our own house in order.

      Those outside America claim that our foreign policy is driven by our need for oil. But then when we developed a way to try and secure this need within our borders, the oil cartel colludes to drive prices down putting many Americans out of work and ruining the economies of many small hard working towns. This is but one example of the frustration that is coming to a boil. This is by no means an endorsement of him rather a simple explanation as to why he has won over many Americans.
      Last edited: May 8, 2016
    5. Calamine Lotion
      Calamine Lotion
      You said he didn't mean "sent" in that way, and that he was not talking about a nation of people, but these quotes show that is exactly what he meant. If another part of it modifies it in some way, that's great, but we narrowed it down to those two issues and what you were representing was not factual. Leaving Trump out of it and just looking at it as a discussion, you should have put your second paragraph in earlier. Now you're saying, "He didn't say that and if he did he didn't mean it that way, and if he did mean it that way there is evidence that he is right." This is not an attack on you or what you believe, but I'm just telling you that your argument fell apart on that point, in my opinion. I went looking for the exact quote, which was unfortunate for you, because it actually states exactly what I thought it only implied. Like I said, if some other part of it modifies this, I'm glad. But it's on you to present your case. And good luck because that could hardly be more clear. "Some of my best friends are Mexicans" is not going to make much difference.
    6. Calamine Lotion
      Calamine Lotion
      Yes, the parallels with Obama are strong. Black Superman Jesus couldn't save us but maybe Angry White Political Outsider Man can do the trick.

      And actually, having someone who promised as much and delivered as little as Obama did is a perfect way to alienate people who don't have strong party ties but just want a change. It's not surprising Trump is doing so well, once you can accept that many of our friends and neighbors really do feel this threatened in today's world.
    7. Anonymous
      i would say that the gop in congresses rejection of anything obama put forth from the american jobs act to criminal reform such as the rejection of a privatized prison system that would have actually helped the people in there own base was there undoing. trump is tapping into many issues some, a major part being disenfranchisement from the political process but some is just basic fear of safety which you argue is part of the national political process or not ( yes and no really ), but its not just just about putting those issues into the spotlight as dems have been doing that for years now but with a gop controlled house and senate nothing can gain traction. its about voting for who will solve them which is why i think boith he and sanders will fail and are horrible choices. i myself cant wait to see a debate of trump against clinton as i think shes gonna tare him apart on live tv. im in a split state myself which can give an interesting perspective. i grew up in the very red tea party side of the state but am left and have a very leftest, sometimes mind numbingly so, family and moved to a very blue spot meaning that i hear it all from everyone all the time and its interesting how a lot of them are now saying the same thing. ive not seen that before in my lifetime firsthand. its a very complicated election time for america. these issues are all inter connected and require nuance to interpret and solve which is again why im for sure voting clinton over sanders and of course trump
    8. evennow
      Black Superman Jesus :guffaw: I can see the musical now

      Jesus black superman
      Who in the world do think you are?

      I'm watching the nightly news and Trump has started his shock and awe attack on Hillary. Obviously he doesn't think the hole he has dug for himself is deep enough. He may be planning to continue through to China to begin economic talks. I just hope he doesn't say something like it is hard to look them straight in the eyes with their slanted lids. He is an orange hair away from becoming the grandfather you lock away at parties for fear of what he might say. One good thing I am sure will come from all of this is that SNL will be watchable again :)
    9. evennow
      Well one thing for sure is you won't be the only one voting for her and if I were to bet I think she will win, but I'm a terrible gambler. It may be narrow minded and shallow, but I just don't like her. I find her to be two faced and harsh. A coworker has a friend that was an assistant to her and left because of how she was treated. She is no angel, nor is Trump, but these are the only choices so it looks like we either cancel each other out or sit it out. I'll let you decide. ;)
    10. Anonymous
      harsh ill give you but i think if she were a man it would be seen as a virtue in these times rather than a liability. sanders is beyond harsh with his blaming of southern blacks being to conservative and the poor not voting for his losses. he sounds like a nutty self righteous preacher in love with his own speeches (that show a bunch of hypocritical stances when compared to his record in congress including his fundraising record in congress). as for two faced, i dont think so any more than anyone campaigning which if in it to win requires a public image which every candidate has and has spent time and money developing including sanders. trumps seems obvious of course. i for sure dont think her a soft angel but at the same time when it comes to work and other serious issues neither am i. my wifes met her georgetown where i think her sister worked or did something or some relative, i didnt think much of it at the time, and she had nice things to say though of course she was there the public image sort of way. i will tell ya that the one politician whom ive met and spent time with outside of campaigning that was in the race for like a second is omalley and was pretty real as far as i could tell thats me judging him on a face to face level and not on his record which i cant recall much of at the moment
    11. marred
      Re: Posters in New York

      If Trump becomes President then America will become the TV show it inevitably was always going to be. It's just not one I am going to continue to want to watch. The Inited States is much like the Roman Empire it's ridiculous.
    12. Anonymous
      Re: Posters in New York

      well to do much hell need the support of congress even to fund any executive action and thats still held by a majority of establishment republicans and might even be overtaken by democrats. the worst damage he could immediately accomplish would be the supreme court nomination as congress needs to appoint someone very soon if they can realistically hold out until the next president takes office. even military action will require some kind of funding though i doubt if elected hell hold to many of his positions such as his tax plan
    13. Derek17
      What I said was that "sent" implies a process that is a little too active for what's actually going on. It's more covert. But make no mistake, Mexico are encouraging people to cross the border. They are allowing it and people from El Salvador and other central and South American countries know very well that they can use Mexico as a conveyor belt to get into America. Even terrorists from the Middle East could take advantage of the Mexican portal. Anyone could.

      We KNOW that the worst of the worst of these people are criminals including drug traffickers, rapists, and murderers. These people would not be allowed in legally so there is a reason they come in illegally.

      Trump's point was that the illegals are not the same as the legal immigrants to America. Not ALL of them are bad people but a vastly disproportionate number are, understandably.

      I don't see much point in focusing on tangents any further but here's some data:


      Last edited: May 9, 2016
    14. Uncleskinny
      Re: Posters in New York

      This has fuck all to do with PC, and everything to do with civility. You can dress it up how you like, but making fun of someone for something they cannot change about themselves - colour, sexuality, orientation, disability, gender - is not on. It's not PC, it's being human.
    15. Derek17
      Re: Posters in New York

      It depends on the context. Using comedy for an audience is different than going up to someone and bullying and threatening them for certain traits. Intention matters and context matters. Again, let's not be disingenuous. We all know the difference between a joke and a malicious attack and most of us have a sense of humour.

      Some people get offended at everything and require safe spaces and essentially need to live in bubbles to avoid the harsh realities of life. Well that sucks but it's an individual problem; it's not up to society to change to accommodate the maladaptive cognitive processes of a small number of people. It's up to them to change their cognitive appraisal of situations and find ways to live more adaptively.

      Of course as humans we shouldn't be out to hurt people. But jokes hurt some very sensitive people and we cannot ban every word that one single damaged person gets triggered by.

      Trump's joke was arguably in bad taste but it was a harmless impersonation, not a malicious attack. Let's recall though that the journalist in question lied in his story and also note that the media made an assumption to procure their story that Trump was mocking him as a disabled person rather than just mocking him as a befuddled journalist who got caught in a lie.
      Last edited: May 9, 2016
    16. Calamine Lotion
      Calamine Lotion
      Yeah, I'm not going to go back and get your quotes and compare them to what you're saying now because I don't care that much, but I remember you switching "sent" for "have." And yes, the process is really subtle and you have to use your special Trump decoder ring while reading Ann Coulter to really get it, but both things are true/not true at the same time because those Mexicans are tricky. I got it.
    17. Derek17
      I don't think you do. You're devolving our discussion into nonsense. You don't need anything special to look at the stats and the facts and see what's going on—only a brain! And you are clearly intelligent so there's no excuse for not using that brain.

      If you or anyone else have the time, this is a good overview video that addresses much of what we are talking about above.

      Last edited: May 9, 2016
    18. rifke
      Re: Posters in New York

      yes, it's about context, and context is, in my opinion, precisely what made the attack on the man so indicative of a deplorable personality. trump, let's get real, is not a comedian. when someone does comedy there are all sorts of nuances about their personality that you as a viewer are in on. their personality becomes part of the joke. sometimes it's understood that the comedians schtick is to be a bit of a jerk. and so when he makes fun of someone part of the focus, part of what comes across as amusing, is the personality that would think that making fun of someone is okay. trumps mockery wasnt done as part of some "look at me, im an odious troglodyte" self-deprecating routine. it was done in the capacity of someone on their pedestal surrounded by people supporting him. i can, admittedly, be a bit of a jerk at times; i will admit i enjoy calling a certain meathead at work a meathead and that i think it's funny how much the fact that he is a gigantic meathead offends him (because surely logic dictates that if it offends him he could simply stop being a meathead? either that or stop being offended). but we have an understanding; we each make fun of each other. i also have an understanding with the people at work that im okay with them thinking im a jerk for it, and that by all means they should. and they do. it wouldnt be funny to me if they didnt. unlike trump, i dont do it to appear big or clever or to win anyone over or to try to make a point. the moment some other person gets in on it and the understanding is lost, is the moment i would stop doing it. to be okay with making fun of someone to a whole crowd of people supporting you in making fun of someone is a pretty clear indication that there is something profoundly wrong in a persons nature, and does strike me as being extremely malicious.
    19. No1uno
      Re: Posters in New York

      Yes that would. That is a great first step. It does take strength to be gentle and kind, for all of us.
    20. rifke
      Re: Posters in New York

      well oscar says a lot of things to me he doesnt say to anyone else. we have a connection *smug* (no really we do, im not just crazy). but actually that quote came--i think--from an exchange at his trial when asked about the morality of the picture of dorian gray whereupon he responded that, "no work of art puts forward views. views belong to people who are not artists'.

      so i guess what should be done about the world is for people who are not artists to work out. the artists job is to supply light, shade and perspective, not to take fixed stances on anything. oscar wilde also indicated that an artist should not struggle with the world or opinions of the day because oftentimes the artists personality is wasted in such struggles. if asked, oscar would probably say that the state of the soul of the artist is more important than the state of the world and if the world has a harmful effect on your soul than you should just eschew the world altogether (at least post-trial oscar would say that).

      i take all my advice from oscar! he would not hear of anything else! if you have any questions you want asked of him just let me know!

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