Political posters in New York

Re: Posters in New York

... i know it's over

 

[Layne]

You claimed above that gay visitors to Pakistan can expect to be thrown off the roofs of tall buildings. Now, make no mistake, Pakistan is not an easy place to be gay, but gay people do both live in Pakistan and visit it, and AFAIK there are no documented cases of any of them being thrown off any tall buildings.

So, what you said was bullshit. Not only that, but it was racist/Islamophobic bullshit aimed at conflating "Muslims" and "ISIS".

"Racist" and "Islamophobic" are pointless buzzwords that people use when they have nothing of substance to say.

If it's racist or Islamophobic to point out that in Islamic nations homosexuality is rejected to the point that people get thrown off of roofs, well then I have a buzzword of my own: homophobia.

Islam is an ideology and as such it is open to interrogation just as Christianity was.

And for the record, I used Pakistan in a different example. You conflated Pakistan and Muslims throwing gays off of roofs. But certainly plenty of horrible things happen to homosexuals in Pakistan but we aren't allowed to talk about that because apparently buzzword 1 (Islamophobia) trumps buzzword 2 (homophobia).

Lord have mercy!

 

[Layne]

Like when he asked a direct question about knowing any gay people town off roofs and you responded by saying Islam hates me. That's dodging a question which is what affirmed you as a bullshitter or when you "read" the piece I posted about sanders and replied with if you don't like Hilary then you must be anti women and I asked if you had anything to say about the multiple points posted in the article and came back with nothing. That's dodging. Trying to change the subject when you've no answer is dodging etc but again this has become a waste of time. About the equivalent of click bait so here's another piece from Newsweek, I know it's not YouTube but they have a somewhat good reputation for news and analysis, about sanders self centered self righteous campaign and his increasingly autocratic whining hypocritical supporters

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-get-control-get-out-race-461195

I sent a link about a gays getting thrown off roofs. The evidence is there. If you want more evidence, use Google but I certainly did my due diligence to prove what I was saying.

And I'm not a Bernard Sanders supporter.

 

[Layne]

And some more words the gentle and kind sanders campaigne

From the Washington post

"
Let’s examine what Bernie Sanders supporters did in his name over the weekend.

As the Nevada Democratic convention voted to award a majority of delegates to Hillary Clinton — an accurate reflection of her victory in the state’s February caucuses — Sanders backers charged the stage, threw chairs and shouted vulgar epithets at speakers. Security agents had to protect the dais and ultimately clear the room.

Sanders supporters publicized the cellphone number of the party chairwoman, Roberta Lange, resulting in thousands of abusive text messages and threats:

“Praying to God someone shoots you in the FACE and blows your democracy-stealing head off!”

“Hey b***h. . . We know where you live. Where you work. Where you eat. Where your kids go to school/grandkids. . . Prepare for hell.”

Veteran Nevada reporter Jon Ralston transcribed some of the choice voicemail messages for the chairwoman, some with vulgar labels for women and their anatomy:

“I think people like you should be hung in a public execution. . . . You are a sick, twisted piece of s--- and I hope you burn for this!”

“You f*****g stupid b***h! What the hell are you doing? You’re a f*****g corrupt b***h!”

The day after the convention, Sanders supporters vandalized party headquarters with messages saying, among other things, “you are scum.”

And the candidate’s response to the violent and misogynistic behavior of his backers? Mostly defiance. Asked by reporters Tuesday about the convention chaos — in which operatives from his national campaign participated — Sanders walked away in the middle of the question.

Finally, mid-afternoon Tuesday, Sanders released a statement saying, “I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals.” But he blamed the Nevada party for preventing a “fair and transparent process,” and he threatened Democrats: “If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned.”

It is no longer accurate to say Sanders is campaigning against Clinton, who has essentially locked up the nomination. The Vermont socialist is now running against the Democratic Party. And that’s excellent news for one Donald J. Trump.

“The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos it did much to create,” the Nevada Democratic Party wrote in a formal complaint to the Democratic National Committee. The state party wrote, “Part of the approach by the Sanders campaign was to employ these easily-incensed delegates as shock troops.” The Sanders representatives “at the times of most intense crisis offered little more than shrugs and smirks.”

To read the full piece

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...want-to-be-the-ralph-nader-of-2016/ar-BBtaINs

Sanders certainly has the best selection of hysterical, violent, entitled, mentally ill supporters. I don't think anyone disputes that. Most people who support him are sniveling fools and entitled little pansies.

 

[Calamine Lotion]

I don't think we can blame the actions of alleged supporters on the person they allegedly support, though. It's an old trick to have people act as outside agitators, and there is a media bias against Sanders as there always is against anyone that is not one of the two accepted approved choices.
If Trump really is the outsider politically that he seems to be there is a positive aspect to that, because we do need a wider range of options. Unfortunately he is appealing to fear, and quite crudely, but I'm afraid the result is that there will be smarter people who use his same tactics but in a slicker way. On the other hand, he's not really that different from the conservative agenda as it has been for decades. Maybe his defeat will be a blow to the conservatives that will actually push the country to the left so that we can have a candidate like Sanders who can actually win.
How many Clintons and Bushes are left? Should we look forward to Chelsea Clinton next or some Bush grandchild whose name we don't know yet?

 

[caramel sea salt]

We won't be needing any Clintons or Bushes.

We have the Kardashians now.

 

[Anonymous]

"Racist" and "Islamophobic" are pointless buzzwords that people use when they have nothing of substance to say.

If it's racist or Islamophobic to point out that in Islamic nations homosexuality is rejected to the point that people get thrown off of roofs, well then I have a buzzword of my own: homophobia.

Islam is an ideology and as such it is open to interrogation just as Christianity was.

And for the record, I used Pakistan in a different example. You conflated Pakistan and Muslims throwing gays off of roofs. But certainly plenty of horrible things happen to homosexuals in Pakistan but we aren't allowed to talk about that because apparently buzzword 1 (Islamophobia) trumps buzzword 2 (homophobia).

Lord have mercy!

Derek, there's no point piling bullshit on top of bullshit. It still leaves you with a pile of bullshit, just a bigger one.

I wish somebody would throw you off a f***ing roof.

If I went to Pakistan someone quite likely would if I chose to engage in certain preferred activities. And that's a problem.

It wouldn't be so bad if, when asked if you were actually aware of a case of such a thing happening in Pakistan, instead of admitting you had it wrong, you hadn't just replied with irrelevant nonsense about Islam wanting you dead. Kind of silly, because that's only going to serve to increase people's sympathy towards Islam.

The problem with your Muslims-are-animals thesis is that it doesn't relate well to the facts (hence why you are forced to base it on bullshit).

It's true that there are a few Muslim countries where gay people are sometimes executed (Saudi Arabia, Sudan, possibly Iran), but these are distinguished more by being conservative, right-wing dictatorships than by being Muslim countries.

On the other hand, homosexuality is legal in a lot of Muslim countries, accounting for probably a bit more than half a billion people in terms of population.

In the middle, there are a lot of Muslim countries where homosexuality is criminalised to some extent, and where the law may be enforced or not not to a greater or lesser degree. There's no denying this is a bad thing, but it should be taken in context. For example, there are virtually no countries in Africa where homosexuality is legal, regardless of their religious makeup. So it's not really startling to see that there are laws against it in Muslim African countries. It should also be remembered that, until 2003, thanks to right-wing-conservatives there, homosexuality was not legal throughout the United States.

So, there isn't really, on the face of it, a noticeable thing about Muslim countries and the punishment of homosexuality. In fact, the real problem worldwide, and perhaps particularly in the Muslim world, is the threat to gay people posed by the political right.

That's not to deny that many gay people in Muslim countries face discrimination and persecution, or that there is any relationship between religion and homophobia. What is clear, though, is that you are full of crap.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think we can blame the actions of alleged supporters on the person they allegedly support, though. It's an old trick to have people act as outside agitators, and there is a media bias against Sanders as there always is against anyone that is not one of the two accepted approved choices.
If Trump really is the outsider politically that he seems to be there is a positive aspect to that, because we do need a wider range of options. Unfortunately he is appealing to fear, and quite crudely, but I'm afraid the result is that there will be smarter people who use his same tactics but in a slicker way. On the other hand, he's not really that different from the conservative agenda as it has been for decades. Maybe his defeat will be a blow to the conservatives that will actually push the country to the left so that we can have a candidate like Sanders who can actually win.
How many Clintons and Bushes are left? Should we look forward to Chelsea Clinton next or some Bush grandchild whose name we don't know yet?

The people at the Nevada caucus were his delegate supporters not just a random group of people. He also didn't condem much of it or condem anything listed in this piece such as the posting of people's phone numbers and addresses so they can stalk threaten and harass some more

From the observer

"

© (Photo: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images) Democratic presidential candidate Sen.Bernie Sanders (D-VT) greets supporters at a campaign rally on May 10, 2016 in Stockton, California. Sanders is campaigning in…



Over the last week, I received a flood of what can only be described as hate mail… for the first time since sixth grade. All stem from several pieces published that are critical of Senator Bernie Sanders, his presidential campaign’s messaging and tactics—and the overall demeanor of his supporters. All come from my perspective as a Democrat and a progressive onlooker. Much like the Beyhive, which descends with fury on any rumored Becky with the good hair, the Berners also lash out, unhinged, on any perceived heretic to dares question their prophetic candidate or his place in the race.

It’s been quite a wake-up call.

Among the ugliest? “Jon Reinish deserves to watch his children die of brain cancer. We all know you media bastards are trying to colour the race and you will be remembered.”

Um, wow.

Despite the quaint Anglican elegance of the spelling of the word “colour,” this is undeniably sadistic. But read between the lines and it speaks volumes. Because by this sentiment, it is obvious that—thanks to repeat assertions from Mr. Sanders, Jeff Weaver, Tad Devine and others—powerful forces are fleecing the campaign, robbing and disenfranchising Mr. Sanders’ supporters, and egregiously manipulated outcomes have filtered down to become accepted mindset. Borderline personality issues aside, it’s clear that whatever fevered, twisted little brain wrote this has heard and absorbed these repeated sentiments.

We’ve been here before. Recall how insane Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Dear directly parroted Carly Fiorina’s “baby parts,” language following the Colorado Springs clinic assault last year? Similar idea. And while, to be clear, the two situations are totally unrelated and I’m not literally equating the two, what is obvious is that the Sanders campaign requires an urgent remedial course on basic civics lessons.

In politics, words matter. Campaigns should know this, particularly those for President. Especially knowing that our politics are pitched on the best of days, and endgames—such as the one the Sanders campaign currently finds itself in, and not a minute too soon—get emotional, candidates have responsibilities to recognize that they are powerful figures, occupy a bully pulpit and exert influence. They need to conduct themselves as such. Mr. Sanders and his campaign have not.

Regarding the messages I received (thanks to messages from dozens of Mr. Sanders’ supporters, I could literally spend the rest of my life going and f****** myself), this isn’t about drawing sympathy or a smirk. I have tough skin and can demonstrably take it as well as I can dish it. I’m reprinting this reprehensible language to contextualize these words as part of a far broader and infinitely more troubling trend: make no mistake that this is the rhetoric coming out of Camp Sanders and that it has real consequences. And the candidate is doing nothing to stop it. In a word, he needs to prove that he’s a leader and a responsible candidate and do so immediately before somebody gets hurt or fire meets gasoline. And if he continues to stand passively by while this transpires, that’s nothing short of tacit approval.

With alarming frequency, Berners are turning Democratic events into distorted omegas of the most grotesque alpha Trump rallies.

Don’t believe me? Look west. This past weekend, the Nevada Democratic party conference descended into chaos, as dozens of Sanders supporters confused revolution with anarchy, high mindedness with the low road, and challenging the system with actual aggressive violence. Once again, the campaign and its followers felt in their righteousness that they are above the rules of the very party the candidate is trying to lead. After disallowing several Sanders delegates due to ineligibility, the supporters of the gentleman from Vermont broke the room apart. Fists and chairs flew. Following the fracas, the state party chair, Roberta Lange, received death threats from Sanders supporters (such great liberals). The locations of the homes and schools of her family—including a grandchild—were leaked, as were cell phone numbers; family members have seen harassment and worse by Mr. Sanders’ loyal supporters (best liberals I’ve ever seen!).

With alarming frequency, Berners are turning Democratic events into distorted omegas of the most grotesque alpha Trump rallies and parroting blunt tactics that every progressive should stand together to decry. I would expect Bernie Sanders, a self-proclaimed lefty who has carefully created a persona that purports to embrace a gentle, loving, inclusive, old-school brand of free-to-be-you-and-me liberalism—but whose actions of late tell another story—to be better than Donald Trump. In this instance he’s getting so dangerously close to the Trumpian border I’m afraid he’s going to get a black and blue mark or worse when he hits that Mexico-financed dream wall of the Donald’s. Weirdly, man-of-contrasts Bernie Sanders has long campaigned on his participation in the student-led nonviolent peaceful protests of the sixties. It would be great if he actually ripped a page from his own biography.

Just as Mr. Trump appallingly shrugged and said his supporters, “feel passionately about their country,” when two supporters beat a Latino man and used the candidate’s ugly, hate-filled squawks about immigrants as cover, Mr. Sanders, instead of immediately condemning such behavior and sternly warning supporters that such activity has absolutely no place in his campaign, gave a way-too-brief nod by denouncing physical violence—and then merely fed the fire, maintaining the Nevada convention was intentionally mishandled and, “At that convention, the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place.”

He’s feeding the paranoia that demonstrably leeds to such outcomes. By intentionally enhancing the perception that his campaign, about which his supporters feel passionately, is being undercut and not permitted by powerful insider forces to succeed he himself bears responsibility for what transpires. Cause and effect. In the days following Nevada, even as Hillary Clinton surged to victory in Kentucky, putting the race even further out of Senator Sanders reach? Surrogates like Ohio State Sen. Nina Turner fanned out across the political landscape basically trying to flip the narrative and, instead of warn Mr. Sanders that he needs to take responsibility and seize control of the situation, pressed the case that it’s the Democratic party and supporters of Hillary Clinton who need to bow down, get right, and get with the program. Senator Turner and heads of the nurse’s union, Mr. Sanders’ not-Super PAC, ratcheted up the rhetoric and began to threaten protests and worse at the convention in Philadelphia. The hostage-taking arrogance is mind-blowing. I will blow this up, they all seem say, quivering sweaty thumb hovering over the switch.

Every election his a choice between two candidates. But it’s more than that. It’s about, who speaks for me? And while campaigning is obviously very different from governing, it is a sort of preview; a look into the future of what’s likely to shake out once a candidate becomes an official. Democrats, given the choice this round between Hillary Clinton and Mr. Sanders have so far resoundingly answered, “Hillary Clinton,” and the past few days make it even clearer why. It’s gone from profoundly disappointing to potentially destructive that Senator Sanders and his campaign have not decided—so far—to end this campaign as they began it: passionate progressives unflinchingly pushing some of the issues that matter most to the identity of the country. Instead, they’ve chosen to conclude on a bitter, toxic, paranoid note that’s a vicious circle of their own making. Hopefully, the Senator will quickly reassess and reverse direction over the next few days and reclaim a quest guided by a higher minded purpose—and make it abundantly clear that he expects the exact same from his campaign and his supporters. I wish I was more confident in his doing so."

 

[Calamine Lotion]

In the US, we don't spell "color" with a u, and I don't see proof that this is from anyone connected to Sanders. I'm not sure why he should address it when focusing on the real issues is more important. The message wasn't nice but it also wasn't a threat. It was typical trolling.
Trump offering to pay the bail when his supporters violently attack the opposition is a completely different thing.
And really? The Beyhive? Who is this written for? Whose sympathy are they trying to garner?

 

[Anonymous]

That person mentioned number and address were for sure publically posted and people were sure encouraged to harass and threaten which he made no mention of. You're as bad as Derek, i sent anonymous a link to the anonymous mailbox, with the dodging. Those people at the Nevada caucus were delegates and not random trolls or anything of the like. Same when the super delegate hit list was posted earlier in the convention. He's incompetent and promising people things he can't deLiver taking there money and spending it on a hopeless cause again by giving it to the very people he's campaigning against to help run his campaign largely political consultants and property owners so that he can run his rallies. He's got no hope of winning the nomination and continues to erode the Democratic Party for his own ego while trump quotes him right and left which isn't surprising as they're starting to seem more and more alike

 

[Layne]

Derek, there's no point piling bullshit on top of bullshit. It still leaves you with a pile of bullshit, just a bigger one.





It wouldn't be so bad if, when asked if you were actually aware of a case of such a thing happening in Pakistan, instead of admitting you had it wrong, you hadn't just replied with irrelevant nonsense about Islam wanting you dead. Kind of silly, because that's only going to serve to increase people's sympathy towards Islam.

The problem with your Muslims-are-animals thesis is that it doesn't relate well to the facts (hence why you are forced to base it on bullshit).

It's true that there are a few Muslim countries where gay people are sometimes executed (Saudi Arabia, Sudan, possibly Iran), but these are distinguished more by being conservative, right-wing dictatorships than by being Muslim countries.

On the other hand, homosexuality is legal in a lot of Muslim countries, accounting for probably a bit more than half a billion people in terms of population.

In the middle, there are a lot of Muslim countries where homosexuality is criminalised to some extent, and where the law may be enforced or not not to a greater or lesser degree. There's no denying this is a bad thing, but it should be taken in context. For example, there are virtually no countries in Africa where homosexuality is legal, regardless of their religious makeup. So it's not really startling to see that there are laws against it in Muslim African countries. It should also be remembered that, until 2003, thanks to right-wing-conservatives there, homosexuality was not legal throughout the United States.

So, there isn't really, on the face of it, a noticeable thing about Muslim countries and the punishment of homosexuality. In fact, the real problem worldwide, and perhaps particularly in the Muslim world, is the threat to gay people posed by the political right.

That's not to deny that many gay people in Muslim countries face discrimination and persecution, or that there is any relationship between religion and homophobia. What is clear, though, is that you are full of crap.

I POSTED A LINK EVIDENCING HOMOSEXUALS BEING THROWN OFF A ROOF IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY. THAT IS WHAT I WAS REQUIRED TO PROVE.

f***.

 

[Layne]

That person mentioned number and address were for sure publically posted and people were sure encouraged to harass and threaten which he made no mention of. You're as bad as Derek, i sent anonymous a link to the anonymous mailbox, with the dodging. Those people at the Nevada caucus were delegates and not random trolls or anything of the like. Same when the super delegate hit list was posted earlier in the convention. He's incompetent and promising people things he can't deLiver taking there money and spending it on a hopeless cause again by giving it to the very people he's campaigning against to help run his campaign largely political consultants and property owners so that he can run his rallies. He's got no hope of winning the nomination and continues to erode the Democratic Party for his own ego while trump quotes him right and left which isn't surprising as they're starting to seem more and more alike

They're not much alike at all. They're both anti-establishment but their methods of combating the establishment are almost exactly opposite. Bernard Sanders has not provided much to encourage the belief in the practicality of his policies.

The only thing Trump has consistently discussed with regard to Sanders is that he thinks the system is rigged against him, as it appears to be, given that even when he wins massively, Clinton still gets ~ half the delegates.

 

[Layne]

In the US, we don't spell "color" with a u, and I don't see proof that this is from anyone connected to Sanders. I'm not sure why he should address it when focusing on the real issues is more important. The message wasn't nice but it also wasn't a threat. It was typical trolling.
Trump offering to pay the bail when his supporters violently attack the opposition is a completely different thing.
And really? The Beyhive? Who is this written for? Whose sympathy are they trying to garner?

If you want to talk about supporters/protesters, the anti-Trump protesters (many of whom are Bernie supporters) are objectively the most irrational and violent. They're a disgrace.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...thers-at-costa-mesa-rally-20160428-story.html

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed and I have posted pieces here about that subject though to be fair I think both groups anti trump violent protesters such as the ones trying to use there cars to block people from going to a rally to the girl who pepper sprayed a sixty year old man and the trump intimidators looking publically claiming there desire to bash a protester to be in close competition for the most silly and irrational. A lot of the sanders supports make me a little embarrassed to be a "progressive" and lumped into there group

 

[Layne]

Agreed and I have posted pieces here about that subject though to be fair I think both groups anti trump violent protesters such as the ones trying to use there cars to block people from going to a rally to the girl who pepper sprayed a sixty year old man and the trump intimidators looking publically claiming there desire to bash a protester to be in close competition for the most silly and irrational. A lot of the sanders supports make me a little embarrassed to be a "progressive" and lumped into there group

Well we know that there are crazies sprinkled into every group. But the Sanders supporters seem to believe that they have a free pass to destroy and antagonize without consequence. It seems to be part of the mindset: we don't want to work, we don't want to be controlled, we want to do whatever we want, we don't need to care about our fellow man, f*** everyone.

It's just too much hysteria without direction. Little of it will lead to anything good.

There are central anti-establishment sentiments among Trump supporters as well, of course. But how they are manifested and expressed are very different. Trump's supporters are usually aligned with Trump's practical ideology and are much more unified and concerned with the good of all Americans and their country as a whole rather than only caring about themselves and wishing that their nation would be torn down and left as rubble.

With regard to the young people who support Trump or Sanders, it seems that the cool kids support Trump and the losers support Sanders.

The crazy part is, after that Trump event in California that I linked to above from the L.A. Times piece, the Canadian news, specifically the CBC, was framing it as if Trump's supporters were rioting. Well no, that's pure misrepresentation. The actual event was very peaceful. But they suggested that Trump was responsible for the violence outside the event, including smashing cars and burning/stomping on the American flag while waving Mexican or communist flags. and he should have told these people to settle down.

It's a huge joke. Not many people are fooled anymore.

Many Bernie supporters are renegades and anarchists by nature. Most of the time, Trump supporters are forced to defend themselves or their property. So even if there are a couple of crazies among the Trump supporters as there are among any group of people, the media are quick to report on those bad apples while the Bernie supporters/Trump protesters are the aggressors and the initiators and invariably the media simply pretends as if it is Trump's people rather exclusively and that it is his responsibility to quell the aggressions of protesters who are opposed to him and would not listen anyway!

 

[Anonymous]

I POSTED A LINK EVIDENCING HOMOSEXUALS BEING THROWN OFF A ROOF IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY. THAT IS WHAT I WAS REQUIRED TO PROVE.

f***.

No, Derek, you were queried specifically about your claim that gay people get thrown off roofs in Pakistan. But instead of just admitting your error, you posted a totally unnecessary and graphic link showing it happening in ISIS-controlled Syria. Which, obviously, is not the same thing.

 

[Calamine Lotion]

I'm not convinced that Sanders is responsible for random messages from random people. This seems like a diversion from the real issues. The only reason you think he doesn't have a chance is because the powers that be decided some time ago that it would be a contest between Trump and Clinton. They're both pandering to their respective supporters.

 

[Anonymous]

The powers that be sounds kinda like a paranoid conspiracy theory. Do you mean the voters decided because clintons got like three million more votes in the popular vote as well as having more delegates. At one point sanders had more money to spend but still didn't win. No one said he was responsible for the mastermind like for what his supporters do but he's sure as not condemning it either while he goes on to call many others selfish and horrible. He sure didn't condem his delegates in Nevada when they threw chairs and yelled threats. Calamine you're getting as bad as Derek with dodging and selective points you care to mention. You criticize the organization writing the last article I posted but won't read a piece from Newsweek and refute it with a YouTube video.mits hard to take you seriously and yeah you might be joking or a troll but it's serious here and to me as who wins this election will have an effect on millions of children trying to eat and get educated parents trying to keep there families safe

 

[Anonymous]

hillary has 3 million more votes than bernie.
the only explanation is that hillary stuffed the ballot boxes because we know the USA is big on communism.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure the republican congress will launch a three year investigation any day now with tax payer money

 

[evennow]

He's got no hope of winning the nomination and continues to erode the Democratic Party for his own ego

And this is exactly how Trump will win. His only chance is to gather Sander's supporters into his camp. He may be many things but he is not an idiot. He recognizes this and I bet you will see many olive branches extended in the coming months.

I don't think Hillary fully realizes how important this will play out and it just might cost her the election. It is a close race and no matter what the pundits or the intelligentsia might say it will come down to the American voter for better or worse. Trump knows this. He is shrewd and is excellent on capitalizing on others weaknesses...you know...a real politician.