L
ListeningLoud
Guest
Hilarious. That was a type of cancer and it can be scrapped. The joke is on you and ignorance
Off-topic discussion thread / moved as clogging other threads
- Thread starter gordyboy9
- Start date
terrancestamp
Well-Known Member
I am making a point....that appears to be lost on you.
W
What a waste
Guest
Aubrey McFate
Burn down the disco
I'm sorry, but what a lot of goo-goo from Martin Amis here. Just because Christopher Hitchens loved life, that doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to. Why does Amis feel he has "a solemn duty" to love life as Hitchens did? I doubt Hitchens said to him, "Martin, I want to you to love life more, on my behalf, when I'm gone." Hitchens always said the compulsory love commanded by God in the bible was odious to him; why would he expect the same?
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nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
I think when someone you love dies it should put you in awe of both life and death and the whole beautiful pageant that encompasses grief and irretrievability and should instill in you a sense of appreciation and wonder that makes you love life more deeply and makes you see love and honour as a duty, not commanded by anyone, but as a filter through which you see your thoughts and actions. I love the lines nicky wrote for Enola/alone after richey disappeared: 'all I wanna do is live, no matter how miserable it is"
Aubrey McFate
Burn down the disco
I don't understand that line. Nicky Wire didn't think that one through. What if living is so miserable that you don't want to live? If a person is in hell, annihilation is preferable. I guess if you're a Manic Street Preacher in 1996 being regularly fellated by attractive groupies, you're not really contemplating the worst. Rationally speaking, your desire to live should match your quality of life (peaks and valleys being what they are).
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
Dont take this the wrong way, aubs, but for a smart guy, sometimes i think you're a bit simple. I think he was referring to the misery of every day life. Even if every day life is miserable and depressing, it's still good to experience embodiment. Even misery and pain can make you aware of the state of embodiment and if you can frame your suffering objectively it ceases to be bad. And since nicky was married at that time, he was probably not being regularly fellated by groupies (otherwise he probably wouldn't have had one of the longest marriages in rock history). And no, your desire to live should not match your quality of life, it should match your outlook on life and the value you place on it. Oscar Wilde has said that imagination is another word for love, so if your imagination isn't engaged when contemplating life, but just a pragmatic assessment of the quality of your own life, you're probably not going to love it. In short, Nicky wire is a very wise and beautiful human, and you should never doubt it.
Aubrey McFate
Burn down the disco
No offense taken. But I'm pretty sure Nicky Wire's wife (like most rock star wives, I imagine) does not expect monogamy of her man. You shouldn't even expect monogamy from a non-famous spouse.
In any event, your equation still seems wrong to me. It can't be good to "experience embodiment" if being embodied is, in your every day life, miserable and depressing. Especially if that's a rut you're unlikely to get out of. But maybe you were speaking of misery being temporary. Life does have its ups and downs. If there's a good (or even a moderate) chance that your misery might give way to pleasure, then I can see how it would be logical to think, "I'll endure this misery in expectation of future bliss." That's a reasonable outlook. Oscar Wilde on the other hand had some kooky ideas, and I don't know what it means to say "imagination is another word for love." A person can use their imagination, but their imagination isn't necessarily going to overcome their pain, if the pain is acute enough.
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
Yes it is good to experience embodiment even so! Some people enjoy the experience of emotions, even bad ones! Take myself for instance: I enjoy a headache on a rainy day!! Because being alive is about more than experiencing pleasure, Aubrey! And love has nothing to do with overcoming pain!!
Oh wow, I am so dismayed by your lack of understanding about this!!
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
And fwiw, I DONT see Nicky as a cheating man!!!!!
Aubrey McFate
Burn down the disco
I don't lack an understanding of masochism (it's not for me), but even the masochist has his or her limits. Life offers occasional little instances of pain that can be enjoyed. Like a mild finger sprain—that kind of pinching numbness has a tang to it. I don't know how you enjoy a headache, but to each their own. I doubt either one of us, though, would be "enjoying the experience of emotions" if we were trapped in the sexual torture chamber Carlislebaz keeps in his basement. The same would go for extreme &/or persistent psychological misery. Only if it looked like there was a chance of getting out would there be a reason to keep on living. We don't have a duty to love life just because someone died. That's insane. "Life is nothing much to lose." It could be just as reasonable to join them. "And we will be safe and sheltered in our graves."
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
it's not masochism, and even masochism is not what you appear to think it is (ie. nobody, not even the masochist, enjoys pain: it is the secondary emergent feeling concomitant with pain that they enjoy). god, your thinking is so binary, i cant grapple with it, it depresses me. i see now why you're an atheist. you dont really have any other option, do you?
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
why do you laugh when i say i dont see nicky as a cheating man? nicky's got many other interests. unlike more boring men, he has the luxury of sex not being the only thing on his mind at all times. plus he's got an absolutely gorgeous, idyllic family. why would he ever run the risk of ruining that for some groupie?? he wouldnt. the thing about nicky is that he knows the value of things.
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
you rely on the word 'wee' as a descriptive term way too much
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
If it's wee it's wee.
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
ive never in my life heard anyone in the modern enlightened world use that word, and yet here you come and it's wee this wee that, ad nauseum
Aubrey McFate
Burn down the disco
I know the masochist doesn't enjoy the pain itself. That's why I said a sprained finger, even though it's painful, also yields a feeling that isn't unpleasant. Still, I'm not going to deliberately sprain my finger to get that secondary sensation, so I must not be a masochist. But the masochist has to have his limits (even though for some masochists they apparently go way out on the scale. Did you ever see the movie Irreversible? It's "New French Extremity" gross-out to the point of being almost unwatchable, but there's a scene of extreme masochism in it that has stuck with me for twenty years).
If enjoying a headache isn't masochism, then what is it?
Nicky Wire might not be most men, but most men in his position would probably indulge. It wouldn't have to ruin his perfect idyllic family so long as he and his wife have an "understanding."
Anyway, this goes back to what irks me about Nicky Wire saying he wants to live no matter miserable it gets, or Martin Amis saying he's determined to love life even more than before. There's something indecent about these things coming from the rich and successful. Of course Nicky Wire wants to live, because his life isn't likely to get miserable. What does Amis think to himself when he talks to his dead friend? "This second cupcake is for you, Hitch." "Say, old pal, see that literary groupie with the tortoiseshell glasses in the fifth row who just smiled at me? I wasn't sure if I was up for a good f*ck tonight, but because you always went for it, I'm going to go for it too." I mean, go ahead and love life—as you should, if your life has good value. But have the humility in public not to be a grinning David Lee Roth about it.
ACTON
Don't Leave Us In The Dark
Sometimes you just have to wee.
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
nicky wire has way more depth of character than you're giving him credit for. he wasnt always rich and successful (although because of his attitude toward life and his uncanny ability to make being beautiful and succesful and fabulous seem like the easiest thing in the world, perhaps he was always fated to be), he came from a poor background and lived through the devastating miners strike. there's a clip in a documentary where he's talking about the miners strike and he says "we were defeated" and the way he says it you know he has the nobility of spirit to understand the poetic humility and beauty of admitting defeat when you know you've put up a good fight. it seems like something i shouldnt need to tell someone of your mature years, but everyone has miserable moments in their life, even if they're rich and successful. i would say that his best friend going missing, haivng probably committed suicide, was probably a pretty low time in his life, but he came out of it with the conviction that he was committed to life no matter what, and thats what those lyrics are: an avowal of commitment to life. unlike richey, who was on the road to riches and success just like the rest of them, and yet was still able to be miserable despite that.
there is a hebrew proverb which i love that goes:
and a voice commands: write!
for whom?
for the dead, whom thou didst love
loving life more in honour of someone who died isnt about getting more pleasure out of it. it's about doing things with more love, with more sincerity, with more conviction, with more meaning, with more awareness of the sanctity of life, which is what we should all be doing anyway, but sometimes it takes an absence to remind us of that. i honestly have to wonder if you're taking the piss. you CANNOT be that simple!!!!!
yes, i saw that movie, a long time ago. i remember hearing it was very extreme, but i dont remember thinking it was myself. i dont think enjoying a headache is masochism, because it's not exactly painful. it's just a different sensation, and i enjoy being a little bit hobbled and feeling afflicted in a perfectly harmless way, it puts me in a different relation with the world than i normally am, and sort of makes me view myself from above, and i am MOST happiest when viewing myself from above, like a character out of a novel, regardless of my comfort level. of course, if my headache ever gets really bad i never miss the opportunity to take an advil whereupon the sensation of it going away is even more enjoyable then the headache itself.
oh and one more thing about nicky, and that is that, fabulous as he is, and as much as he likes to have a good time, he's VERY wholesome. i dont think he and his wife would have an agreement, and i doubt he would do anything that would compromise his childrens respect for him.
you did however get one thing right, and that is that nicky wire is NOT most men
nicky wire's legs
all is vanity
also when asked how he got the love bites he had on the cover of some magazine or other nicky said that he and richey had gone out with the plan of finding someone to do just that (ironically admitting that richey hadnt managed to pick anyone up), and when he told this story he sheepishly prefaced it with "this is before i was married"!!!!!
