Nick Cave

[atlas]

hello,
i would list my favourite artists/bands as follows

1. The Clash (being a teenager going to school in camden in the late 70s is there any other choice???)
2. Nick Cave
3. Morrissey
4. Tom Waits

Im particularly interested in whether Morrissey fans in general appreciate Nick? There a spoof Nick Cave twitter and lots of references to Morrissey. Also Morrissey has a lyrics refering to the Bad Seeds. is it "the" bad seeds??

 

[MyDoppelganger]

I don't know if that would be a reference to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.

Has Morrissey ever said anything about Nick Cave?

In this interview, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfXosshZOxA, Morrissey doesn't appear to have much of an opinion of Cave.

I've only listened to Murder Ballads, but I think it's fantastic. What other albums should I check out?

 

[5am]

I used to have a crush on Inbal Perlmuter, the female vocalist

 

[atlas]

I used to have a crush on Inbal Perlmuter, the female vocalist

cave is massive in israel. as is morrissey actually. at teh ally pally gig the singer from dolls and teh kicks told a story about a guy who got a whole morrissey shirt at a gig in tel aviv and just got married in that shirt.

as for mr cave. murder ballads is affedctionally known as the joke album.
ofcourse they are all good but if introducing a beginner i would probably say

1. the boatman's call

2. no more shall we part

3. henry's dream

4. let love in

5. abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus

i should stop as i'll end up just listing all the albums...

 

[racheluk]

I'm a fan of both Moz and Nick Cave - I have come across others who are fans of both but we're probably in the minority.

I've only listened to Murder Ballads, but I think it's fantastic. What other albums should I check out?

I really like Henry's Dream but I think that's supposed to be Nick's least favourite album. Let Love In is a good one too.

 

[Qvist]

I've only listened to Murder Ballads, but I think it's fantastic. What other albums should I check out?

All of them. Opinion varies widely about which is the best (which is of course in itself a sure sign of the general steady quality of his work). My particular favorites are Your Funeral My Trial, Let Love In and No More Shall We Part. From the starting point of Murder Ballads, you would probably find the last two of them the most accessible.

cheers

 

[souljacker]

at teh ally pally gig the singer from dolls and teh kicks told a story about a guy who got a whole morrissey shirt at a gig in tel aviv and just got married in that shirt.

That's brilliant.

Hello atlas. Seems like us Nick Cave forumers are spreadin' all over the net...

1. the boatman's call

2. no more shall we part

3. henry's dream

4. let love in

5. abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus

i should stop as i'll end up just listing all the albums...

Psh, they don't represent him really, though, do they? To give a broad range to a newcomer, personally, I'd say that an album from each decade needs picking. Though these wouldn't be my personal favourites, I think they work:

- 80s: Tender Prey / Your Funeral, My Trial
- 90s: Henry's Dream / Let Love In
- 00s: No More Shall We Part / Abbatoir Blues / Lyre of Orpheus (double album)

 

[Matti]

Henry's Dream and The Good Son are my favourites!

 

[Pokey]

abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus is my favorite Nick Cave album/s ... he just seemed to absolute nail it with this and everything came together and just worked .. it had everything. That's what I love about Nick, he keeps pushing boundries and to me at that point in his mid/late 40s came out with what I think was his best work. Moz to me peaked with his best in Bona Drag era, and even though I really, really love the new stuff .. Cave seems more willing to push himself creatively now than Moz does. But really I find them hard to compare and I'm sure Moz would be the first to admit, he's a pop singer, Cave isnt.

 

[Qvist]

I find it hard to imagine the two liking each other, or each other's work. Their musical influences are almost opposite, and they seem very temperamentally different. Cave with his fascination with the morbid and grotesque - I don't see that reflected in Morrissey, not in the same way. Cave is clearly fascinated by human darkness, Morrissey, despite his focus on it, seems to disapprove of it and regard it with loathing. It's like Cave takes the value of life for granted and seeks out the deep dark edges, while Morrissey takes the dark edges for granted and seeks out the unlikely possibility of a good life. Which, if so, would tend to make each of them think the other is concerned with the trivial, I would suspect.

cheers

 

[Pokey]

I've not heard either or say anything negative about each other ... in the interview where morrissey asks the interviewer about any surprisingly good lyrics he's heard recently than have floored him and he brings up Nick Cave, Moz doesn't show any sort of "oh god, him.." reaction. I can see Morrissey not so much being a fan, but at least respecting Cave's work.

What I found an interesting time in Cave's career was when he was mentoring Kylie minogue. Trying to pry a little substance out of her ... it seemed like such a strange paring. It reminds me of one of the great quotes from Melbourne band TISM - "I know I've gone mad when I've seen Kylie up on stage reading out 'i should be so lucky' in poem form with poor insulin dependant Nick Cave egging her on from the wings".

 

[atlas]

this isnt a nick cave forum so i wont get in to the whats his best album discussion. its evident from the short thread so far that if you put 2 cave fans in a room you will get 3 opinions on his best album... hell, if i repeated teh exercise now id coem up witha different 5 (except boatman's call. always no1).

but i disagree that they wouldnt get along. from what i can tell of nick off stage hes not as dark and bloodthirsty as he is in his music. especially now thats hes a boring old domesticated fatehr of twins and good husband.
surely if not great friends they would have deep respect for each other as musicians.

i also find it odd that many fans are happy to call moz a pop singer. thats liek saying leanord cohen is a pop singer. johnny cash is a pop singer. theres a lot more going on in morrissey's songs than pop.

also as someone who got in to morrissey relatively late (only started getting in to him when i saw him support bowie at wembley arena in 95) i actually think some of his later stuff is better than earlier material (i was never a smiths fan, i was musically a million miles away during those years). i can understand the argument that he hasnt pushed himself stylistically as much as cave but (and ill probably get shot down for this as i dont know how refusal is rated amongst fans) but as an album i dont think hes done anything better than years of refusal. is there a weak song on there? id say (imho) that vauxhall and i and quarry are my favourites, but refusal is up there. is that a faux pas?

 

[Anaesthesine]

Hey there atlas.

I saw Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds in '84 on either The Firstborn is Dead or From Her to Eternity tour. One of the great (although very brief) shows of my young life. That period, when he was first palling around with Blixa Bargeld, Lydia Lunch and Jim Foetus (not to mention Marc Almond in the Immaculate Consumptives) was incredible. A great time for New York, and a great time for music. Long Live No Wave!

Personally, I think Nick has pushed himself as an artist far more than Morrissey ever did, no doubt about it. It doesn't get much cooler than being the band in Wings of Desire. I would have a hard time choosing my favorite album (I didn't really keep up with him after a while), but Knockin' on Joe is certainly one of the greatest songs ever written.

I can't wait to hear Nick's soundtrack for The Road. It seems like a match made in hell.

You're free to enjoy Years of Refusal. My friends who don't really care for Morrissey all like that album, so there you go.

Everyone I know who's still involved with music rates Moz and Nick as two of Indie's greatest dieties, even though they're as alike as chalk and cheese.

 

[atlas]

You're free to enjoy Years of Refusal. My friends who don't really care for Morrissey all like that album, so there you go.

[/QUOTE]

thats a bit like being told by a girl that youre "nice"...

and yes early nick is amazing but probably not that accessible for beginners.

speaking of wings of desire. a very good friend of mine (he was more my older sisters friend back then) who is now considered the godfather of rock in israel was in a band in the 70s called minimal compact who have a song on the soundtrack. how cool is that. nouvelle vague covered one of their songs too on the last album (it was a bonus track).

 

[Pokey]

its evident from the short thread so far that if you put 2 cave fans in a room you will get 3 opinions on his best album.

you could say the same about most artists couldnt you, that you'll get great varying degrees of love for different albums theyve done? ... unless its U2, then everyone agrees everything is crap, even the ones that say otherwise .. are thinking it

from what i can tell of nick off stage hes not as dark and bloodthirsty as he is in his music. especially now thats hes a boring old domesticated fatehr of twins and good husband.

you're right about Cave not being a demonic monster off stage, I've seen him a few times around Melbourne, not least of all when he was given a doctorate at Monash uni about 10mins away from him. Having lunch and watching "Dr Cave" crossing the road with his family is a weird experience. His son also can be seen hanging out at Flinders St station from time to time, comes off as a bit of a tosser though.

i also find it odd that many fans are happy to call moz a pop singer. thats liek saying leanord cohen is a pop singer. johnny cash is a pop singer. theres a lot more going on in morrissey's songs than pop.

of course there is more to Moz than 'just' a pop singer, its hard to really define him, but in the end the majority of the songs he has are simple pop songs .. not that there is anything wrong with that, he's one of the cases that makes it work by bringing in other elements like genuine wit, amazing lyrics and other such things severely lacking in pop.

 

[atlas]

of course there is more to Moz than 'just' a pop singer, its hard to really define him, but in the end the majority of the songs he has are simple pop songs .. not that there is anything wrong with that, he's one of the cases that makes it work by bringing in other elements like genuine wit, amazing lyrics and other such things severely lacking in pop.[/QUOTE]

thats where i disagree slightly. i associate pop with banal lyrics. timberlake usher madonna boy bands spice girls etc. so many of morrissey's songs make me think, yeah thats what i think. the fact that he presents that with amazing intonation is a bonus. and the music is more rock than pop.

 

[Anaesthesine]

thats a bit like being told by a girl that youre "nice"...

It did sound a bit condescending, didn't it?

What I meant to say was that even people who don't like Morrissey like Years of Refusal, so it must be pretty damn good.

i associate pop with banal lyrics. timberlake usher madonna boy bands spice girls etc. so many of morrissey's songs make me think, yeah thats what i think. the fact that he presents that with amazing intonation is a bonus. and the music is more rock than pop.

The Smiths were an indie pop band. I would never describe them as Rock 'n Roll.

Morrissey is brainy, subversive pop. Pop isn't synonymous with banal, it just means popular, perhaps a bit more gentle than Rock. The lines do blur when it comes to indie pop, which is precisely the point. The whole post-punk era was typified by smart, subversive pop music. Morrissey is in that tradition. Lately he has been leaning toward a harder musical sound, it's true, but he's a crooner, not a rocker.

Oddly, I think Nick Cave is a bit more high-profile than Morrissey when it come to film soundtracks, novels and collaborations with other artists. Yet, I would never call him a pop singer.

Let's just call them both creepy crooners, and leave it at that.

 

[I am a Ghost]

1. Morrissey
2. Nick Cave

 

[Anaesthesine]

^
Why?

 

[atlas]

Oddly, I think Nick Cave is a bit more high-profile than Morrissey when it come to film soundtracks, novels and collaborations with other artists. Yet, I would never call him a pop singer.

[/QUOTE]

cave may be more high profile but he hasnt done anything mainstream or "popular". the closest was teh score for teh jesse james film with a long title. the proposition was not "hollywood".
cave has done some great cameos in films (as has waits).

check this out


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ-KCpxLDtY

or this, but not just before you go to bed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0SmHZV1Zks&feature=related