Nick Cave on Morrissey - new issue of the Red Hand Files

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Jun 28, 2019.

By Anonymous on Jun 28, 2019 at 12:51 PM
  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Nick Cave on Morrissey - The Red Hand Files - Issue #48


    Open debate and conversation are the very structure of civilisation, and in Nottingham it was a privilege to be challenged by this very thoughtful young man. However, even though I was unsatisfied by my own response, I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them – even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself – that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed.

    ...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals – messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems.
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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Jun 28, 2019.

    1. Anonymous
      You know you’re talking to the resident Nazi, right? Like, an actual one. I doubt you’re going to get much of a logical debate with it.
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    2. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      To be hounded by the Guardian is not being civil and responding to someone’s opinions.

      Morrissey is not one to explain himself to anyone really. Some may look at this as a character flaw. So be it.
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    3. GodEmperorMorrissey
      "I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views"

      is speaking for the marginalized, specifically the English and western values and culture. Nick is not a great artist and his comment was back handed . All these boomer rockers are burnt
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    4. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
    5. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      I don’t have any kind of bias to my own race and actually prefer the Cultures of other races to my own but everyone is different.’

      Yes.. everyone is different. Some prefer some don’t. Nothing wrong with diversity of choice.

      To state that everyone prefers their own race is the very definition of racism. It is a dictionary definition.

      That’s funny. I googled ‘racism definition’ and this is the first thing to come up..


      1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.’

      If Morrissey made the statement that everyone prefers their own race because they believe that their race is superior to another race can then be defined as racism from those making that choice based on that belief.

      Morrissey’s statement was not racist, though it was quite a generalization. The fact is that most people may prefer to be with their own race because of their upbringing, it is familiarity with what one knows, it’s conditioning, not saying that’s entirely good. But does that preference make someone racist? Not usually the case.
    6. drag me down
      drag me down
      I'm painfully shy until I have a drink in me. I don't have to attend meetings at work. It all stems from years of, not exactly, bullying, but being made fun of at school for being gay. Shyness has had a direct affect on my income. It's stopped me aiming for promotion and reaching my full potential. I bet a lot of people on benefits are really quite shy. If you've had a private schooling confidence is drilled into you.
      Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    7. The Truth
      The Truth
      Have you missed the new fans who have joined in the past few months who are pointing out all the great things Hitler did? These are the people he is appealing to with his comments.
      I think some people should leave because we still like the music but don't really like him as a person. And the music for the past three records, being generous, would not have made me a fan.
      But we're still here out of habit. Don't worry. The numbers seem to be dwindling.
    8. Pokey
      People like that are obviously trolling. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if they're also some of the same people calling him a nazi by joining and nazi praising to try and prove a point. This place is full of trolls. The other thing is whether he appeals to these people or not doesn't necessarily speak to his intentions. Take Rammstein for an example. A pretty politically left leaning German band who still to this day have morons nazi saluting at their shows who don't understand their intentions. Just because nazi's find them appealing doesn't mean they are appealing to nazis. Dont fall into the same trap by assuming Morrissey wants to appeal to those people.
    9. The Truth
      The Truth
      You believe that people that have a problem with Morrissey's views just want to have a rant and don't care. You believe that people that literally promote Nazi ideology are just trying to prove a point.
      It seems that you're ignoring or intentionally misconceiving of things that don't fit your program.
      I agree to a point that he can't control who is listening to him, if they even listen to the records. They never write about the music, just about something he has said. But it's not an exaggeration to say that whatever his intentions are and whatever he thinks of the far right he is now getting people promoting far right ideology and propaganda daily.

      I used to go to 4chan years ago and I thought that a lot of people there weren't serious, that it was all a put on, written ironically, when they would write about Jews and n*****s but that site evolved into a place where right wing extremism is pretty widespread. I guess a lot of those people weren't joking. If you think the people here talking about how Hitler wanted to "cleanse" Germany because of the problems created by Jews are just trolling I really disagree. To daily write about the "destruction of the white race" and post another few examples of crimes committed by blacks is pretty dedicated for trolling.

      And Morrissey is saying nothing about this. If it keeps going they will be the only fans he has so maybe he's afraid to mention it. I just wonder what's going to happen when they actually hear the lyrics.
    10. Pokey
      I believe that some of them do, at least a great deal here. The average person you might see post on twitter or facebook who read's Morrissey's views and doesn't like them I believe are probably pretty legit feeling that way. Although I'd hope some of them would read his actual words from the source rather than an article giving their spin on it. Those people I think are generally pretty much honestly expressing their feelings. On Morrissey-solo though, its a different story. And yeah, I honestly wouldn't put it past some of them doing that to prove a point knowing this place.

      Im not saying every single person is one way, or every single person is another. What should Morrissey say about it? Does the man have to literally spell out he isn't a nazi? The stretch to believe that is pretty bloody big. The man has some right of centre views on border protection/control. He has left of centre views on other things. He's just an old babyboomer with a mix of political and social views. People jumping up and down about nazism are being completely ridiculous if they're using it to criticise him, and those who legitimately use nazism as a way of praising him are so deluded in their own views they are hearing what they want to hear from him. In the end, he's just a dude with some pretty tame views that slide to either side of the political/social spectrum on different things.
    11. Anonymous
      It is what media do on all sides. If he doesn’t want to be criticised or hounded or whatever you want to call it then he shouldn’t tell people how to vote and vote for a far right party that invites Swedish holocaust deniers to its party conferences.

      Do you really think for one minute any newspaper is going to ignore such statements and views?

      It who cares about newspapers. Not many. His issues aren’t because of media. They are self induced through his own words on his own website or stage.

      I doubt many ex fans follow anything the guardian says but they are bothered by his own words not the words in any newspaper.

      He can’t continue to blame a specific newspaper for the reactions to his own views and beliefs.

      I doubt many of his troubled fans even read that paper.
    12. Anonymous
      You too are saying “most people”. Where does that come from. I don’t think like that and I don’t know anyone who does. What about all the people who marry interracially? It’s a stupid argument and yes it is racist to prefer people based on their race.

      You didn’t comment on my point re asking people to vote for a far right party which invites holocaust deniers to speak at its conference. Any view on that?
    13. Anonymous
      I am gay and was also bullied at school and by my family. And I come from a poor working class background. Get some help. You have that ability. You are in control.
    14. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      Most people meaning not all people.

      Anyway, please reread my post, and correct yourself.

      You can ask people to do anything, it is up to them to make that choice.

      Freedom of choice.
    15. Anonymous
      You don’t have to go further than his own words on his own website to find the issues. Nothing to do with newspaper spin.

      He openly tells people to vote for a far right party. A party with dangerous links to extreme racists and comprised of ex BNP thugs and they invite outspoken swedish holocaust deniers to their annual conference. Is that slight right of centre? Wake up
    16. Anonymous
      And it is perfectly acceptable for anyone to criticise those things and choose to speak out against those views. That too is freedom of choice.
    17. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun

      Click to expand.... your mind.
    18. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      Yes agree.
    19. Anonymous
      And in the usual way his supporters dont engage in the debate of the point re the issue with the party he asks people to vote for and their open links with holocaust deniers by saying expand your mind. Dull.
    20. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      Again it shows you don’t read other people’s posts, especially the ones you disagree with. I already kindly answered that question. Go back reread.
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