Nick Cave on Morrissey - new issue of the Red Hand Files

Nick Cave on Morrissey - The Red Hand Files - Issue #48

Excerpt:

Open debate and conversation are the very structure of civilisation, and in Nottingham it was a privilege to be challenged by this very thoughtful young man. However, even though I was unsatisfied by my own response, I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them – even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself – that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed.

...Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals – messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems.
 
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Comments

You too are saying “most people”. Where does that come from. I don’t think like that and I don’t know anyone who does. What about all the people who marry interracially? It’s a stupid argument and yes it is racist to prefer people based on their race.

You didn’t comment on my point re asking people to vote for a far right party which invites holocaust deniers to speak at its conference. Any view on that?
Most people meaning not all people.

Anyway, please reread my post, and correct yourself.

You can ask people to do anything, it is up to them to make that choice.

Freedom of choice.
 
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I believe that some of them do, at least a great deal here. The average person you might see post on twitter or facebook who read's Morrissey's views and doesn't like them I believe are probably pretty legit feeling that way. Although I'd hope some of them would read his actual words from the source rather than an article giving their spin on it. Those people I think are generally pretty much honestly expressing their feelings. On Morrissey-solo though, its a different story. And yeah, I honestly wouldn't put it past some of them doing that to prove a point knowing this place.

Im not saying every single person is one way, or every single person is another. What should Morrissey say about it? Does the man have to literally spell out he isn't a nazi? The stretch to believe that is pretty bloody big. The man has some right of centre views on border protection/control. He has left of centre views on other things. He's just an old babyboomer with a mix of political and social views. People jumping up and down about nazism are being completely ridiculous if they're using it to criticise him, and those who legitimately use nazism as a way of praising him are so deluded in their own views they are hearing what they want to hear from him. In the end, he's just a dude with some pretty tame views that slide to either side of the political/social spectrum on different things.
You don’t have to go further than his own words on his own website to find the issues. Nothing to do with newspaper spin.

He openly tells people to vote for a far right party. A party with dangerous links to extreme racists and comprised of ex BNP thugs and they invite outspoken swedish holocaust deniers to their annual conference. Is that slight right of centre? Wake up
 
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Most people meaning not all people.

Anyway, please reread my post, and correct yourself.

You can ask people to do anything, it is up to them to make that choice.

Freedom of choice.
And it is perfectly acceptable for anyone to criticise those things and choose to speak out against those views. That too is freedom of choice.
 
It is what media do on all sides. If he doesn’t want to be criticised or hounded or whatever you want to call it then he shouldn’t tell people how to vote and vote for a far right party that invites Swedish holocaust deniers to its party conferences.

Morrissey answered their questions.

Do you really think for one minute any newspaper is going to ignore such statements and views?

Of course not, it’s all clickbait to them $$$$.

It who cares about newspapers. Not many. His issues aren’t because of media. They are self induced through his own words on his own website or stage.

People’s reactions to what he says are the issue. Don’t curtail someone’s freedom to speak.

I doubt many ex fans follow anything the guardian says but they are bothered by his own words not the words in any newspaper.

They really should look into their own community and hands on approach to make any significant changes in society,
their opinions are USELESS here.


He can’t continue to blame a specific newspaper for the reactions to his own views and beliefs.

There reactions have turned into actions... the actions of harassment and abuse are their agenda. Are they (the Guardian) journalists? or a political party?

I doubt many of his troubled fans even read that paper.

They do because it strokes their ego by supporting their faulty beliefs.

Click to expand.... your mind.
 
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Click to expand.... your mind.
And in the usual way his supporters dont engage in the debate of the point re the issue with the party he asks people to vote for and their open links with holocaust deniers by saying expand your mind. Dull.
 
And in the usual way his supporters dont engage in the debate of the point re the issue with the party he asks people to vote for and their open links with holocaust deniers by saying expand your mind. Dull.
Again it shows you don’t read other people’s posts, especially the ones you disagree with. I already kindly answered that question. Go back reread.
 
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Again it shows you don’t read other people’s posts, especially the ones you disagree with. I already kindly answered that question. Go back reread.
I don’t see anywhere where you have addressed the holocaust denial point or the BNP racists point regarding For Britain. Feel free to explain how that is justified. Before you try to blame media lies for that I was at their conference and heard and saw it myself and beyond belief how someone could support that party knowing those views.
 
I don’t see anywhere where you have addressed the holocaust denial point or the BNP racists point regarding For Britain. Feel free to explain how that is justified. Before you try to blame media lies for that I was at their conference and heard and saw it myself and beyond belief how someone could support that party knowing those views.

‘..and beyond belief how someone could support that party knowing those views.’

And how do you know that he knows ‘those views’?

And no, you actually asked ... ‘ You didn’t comment on my point re asking people to vote for a far right party which invites holocaust deniers to speak at its conference. Any view on that?’

And yes I already answered your question, please reread all my posts.
 
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‘..and beyond belief how someone could support that party knowing those views.’

And how do you know that he knows ‘those views’?

And no, you actually asked ... ‘ You didn’t comment on my point re asking people to vote for a far right party which invites holocaust deniers to speak at its conference. Any view on that?’

And yes I already answered your question, please reread all my posts.
He knows those views believe me. I know for sure of at least 4 people who have told him and it is widely known and publicised. If you were going to tell people to vote for a party you would at least look them up on google and do a little research. It isn’t hidden. A tiny bit of research will find documented links to the banned terrorist group National Action and Anne Marie Waters talks at several ugly far right organisations such as Generation Identity whose aims include the removal of all “non European stock” from the Uk through assisted repatriation back to their country of birth regardless of war zones. This is out there and not hard to find. If you think for one minute that Morrissey isn’t aware of the controversy behind For Britain and their links to holocaust deniers and racist extreme groups then you really don’t credit him with much intelligence at all.
 
He knows those views believe me. I know for sure of at least 4 people who have told him and it is widely known and publicised. If you were going to tell people to vote for a party you would at least look them up on google and do a little research. It isn’t hidden. A tiny bit of research will find documented links to the banned terrorist group National Action and Anne Marie Waters talks at several ugly far right organisations such as Generation Identity whose aims include the removal of all “non European stock” from the Uk through assisted repatriation back to their country of birth regardless of war zones. This is out there and not hard to find. If you think for one minute that Morrissey isn’t aware of the controversy behind For Britain and their links to holocaust deniers and racist extreme groups then you really don’t credit him with much intelligence at all.
He doesn’t know those views

:cool:


believe me


:rolleyes:
 
V
You believe that people that have a problem with Morrissey's views just want to have a rant and don't care. You believe that people that literally promote Nazi ideology are just trying to prove a point.
It seems that you're ignoring or intentionally misconceiving of things that don't fit your program.
I agree to a point that he can't control who is listening to him, if they even listen to the records. They never write about the music, just about something he has said. But it's not an exaggeration to say that whatever his intentions are and whatever he thinks of the far right he is now getting people promoting far right ideology and propaganda daily.

I used to go to 4chan years ago and I thought that a lot of people there weren't serious, that it was all a put on, written ironically, when they would write about Jews and n*****s but that site evolved into a place where right wing extremism is pretty widespread. I guess a lot of those people weren't joking. If you think the people here talking about how Hitler wanted to "cleanse" Germany because of the problems created by Jews are just trolling I really disagree. To daily write about the "destruction of the white race" and post another few examples of crimes committed by blacks is pretty dedicated for trolling.

And Morrissey is saying nothing about this. If it keeps going they will be the only fans he has so maybe he's afraid to mention it. I just wonder what's going to happen when they actually hear the lyrics.
WTF????

didnt you cleanse the block where you live FFS? because of the problem created by the black dudes and lazy black lady librarians?o_O
Went ballistic because a black dude had a boombox in a shopping cart while smoking meth? Did you help him by giving him money or eliminate using the nazi way him with a fake air gun?:straightface:
 

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