New Morrissey statement, and comment from Love Music Hate Racism

[smiler]

What? Really? Where have you been? He's been making dodgy remarks since 1986. My God, I'm his staunchest defender, and I would never claim his record is spotless. I sat in my room listening to "Bengali In Platforms" and I knew then and there, on the first listen, without the aid of the NME or anyone else, that he was "swimming in murky waters" (thanks Martin Smith!)

poetically "swimming in murky waters" is one thing - a racist remarks is another

and "Morrissey is the context." - means nothing

Let me respectfully ask you a question. How is it you confidently claim to have "a mountain of evidence" that Morrissey is not a racist, yet this mountain crumbles away and scatters to the four winds just because he made an obviously emotional off-the-cuff remark? Doesn't that give you pause? How can one word overturn a mountain?

because the remark was racist

 

[Anaesthesine]

From the first link on that page:

"Q:

What potential do you think art has as a vehicle for social change?

Alysha Layla Shaw
Santa Fe, New Mexico, U.S.A.

A:

hello Alysha
Feminism - yes, Greenpeace - yes, PETA - yes, Art - no. Most people have no interest in Art, and only accept it under extreme protest. All media heroes are Artless, all politicians are devoid of Art, and anyone in music attempting to convey Art is usually ridiculed. I think it's safe to say that the human race is probably scum, on the whole. There's no evidence to the contrary."



Morrissey's an equal opportunity offender!

Precisely.

There is no race, ethnicity or national affiliation that is out of Morrissey's line of fire. You could give Morrissey a list of nationalities/races, and he would provide you a litany of what is wrong with each and every one of them (particularly from an animal rights perspective): the Chinese - unspeakably cruel animal skinners; the Canadians - heartless seal-clubers; Americans - fat, greedy sub-intellectuals, etc, etc. He's a misanthrope in the truest sense of the word. Some of my favorite artists/writers seldom had anything nice to say about anyone - it goes with the territory.

When it comes to humanity's crimes, we're all guilty, it's just a matter of degree. Morrissey has said this often enough, but no one wants to believe him (or so it seems).

 

[King Leer]

One of the thousands of comments on sites covering this "news" said that "Morrissey misspoke from the heart," which I think is the most succinct summation I've read.

What's so annoying about the hyper-PC world we live in is not the knee-jerk reaction to statements (or fragments of statements), it's the complete refusal to subsequently look at context.

I knew society was going off the rails years ago when some person of note used the word "niggardly" in an argument. Even after it was acknowledged that it had no connection to that word, the ignorant PC brigade still wagged their fingers and said "Well, it sounds close so you better not use it."

 

[CrystalGeezer]

One of the thousands of comments on sites covering this "news" said that "Morrissey misspoke from the heart," which I think is the most succinct summation I've read.

That is a nice way of putting this whole thing.

 

[Worm]

I knew society was going off the rails years ago when some person of note used the word "niggardly" in an argument. Even after it was acknowledged that it had no connection to that word, the ignorant PC brigade still wagged their fingers and said "Well, it sounds close so you better not use it."

Get used to it. Only gets worse from here.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

Get used to it. Only gets worse from here.

Despite the fact the political correctness is infuriating, particularly (as in this case) when it gets in the way of passionate expression, I have to admit I find the idea of people falling over themselves in their efforts not to hurt anyone's feelings quite touching.

To put a positive spin on this whole affair: It's all rather sweet, really.

 

[Worm]

Despite the fact the political correctness is infuriating, particularly (as in this case) when it gets in the way of passionate expression, I have to admit I find the idea of people falling over themselves in their efforts not to hurt anyone's feelings quite touching.

To put a positive spin on this whole affair: It's all rather sweet, really.

I see your point, and I suppose you're right to an extent.

However, I can't really take this as a positive sign with respect to the media. If one ill-chosen word makes a man seem like a racist, even though he's not, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which another man can shrewdly choose his words to sound like he's not a racist, even though he is.

You can see the problem in LMHR itself. Morrissey made some racist-sounding remarks in the NME and was criticized for it. In response he issued a categorical denial of the charges against him, then donated 28,000 pounds to LMHR. Now, personally, I take his statement as true and I think his donation, while on one level an obvious attempt at positive p.r., was heartfelt.

However, isn't there something faintly ridiculous about the fact that LMHR was forced to accept his statement and his money, smoothing over the kerfuffle? And now that he's said "subspecies", Martin Smith has to come out and condemn him? It makes the whole thing seem like a silly game played by hypocrites. This is the fundamental problem with political correctness and we've seen it for years.

 

[King Leer]

All true.
One thing I would add is that Morrissey never, ever says "I'm sorry," which infuriates many. They, the media, know ahead of time he won't retract and get ready to shoot him down. I generally respected The Guardian but having those sniping articles at the ready -- I will consider ever reading their shit again.

For comparison, here are Floyd Mayweather's comments about rival Manny Pacquiao, made a few days before. Mayweather apologised profusely not long after and it's already pretty much blown over:

"As soon as we come off vacation, we're going to cook that little yellow chump. We ain't worried about that. So they ain't gotta worry about me fighting the midget. Once I kick the midget ass, I don't want you all to jump on my d---. So you all better get on the bandwagon now. ... Once I stomp the midget, I'll make that mother f----- make me a sushi roll and cook me some rice."

I see your point, and I suppose you're right to an extent.

However, I can't really take this as a positive sign with respect to the media. If one ill-chosen word makes a man seem like a racist, even though he's not, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which another man can shrewdly choose his words to sound like he's not a racist, even though he is.

You can see the problem in LMHR itself. Morrissey made some racist-sounding remarks in the NME and was criticized for it. In response he issued a categorical denial of the charges against him, then donated 28,000 pounds to LMHR. Now, personally, I take his statement as true and I think his donation, while on one level an obvious attempt at positive p.r., was heartfelt.

However, isn't there something faintly ridiculous about the fact that LMHR was forced to accept his statement and his money, smoothing over the kerfuffle? And now that he's said "subspecies", Martin Smith has to come out and condemn him? It makes the whole thing seem like a silly game played by hypocrites. This is the fundamental problem with political correctness and we've seen it for years.

 

[smiler]

One of the thousands of comments on sites covering this "news" said that "Morrissey misspoke from the heart," which I think is the most succinct summation I've read.

What's so annoying about the hyper-PC world we live in is not the knee-jerk reaction to statements (or fragments of statements), it's the complete refusal to subsequently look at context.

tell me the context that makes the quote okay?

 

[smiler]

Precisely.

There is no race, ethnicity or national affiliation that is out of Morrissey's line of fire. You could give Morrissey a list of nationalities/races, and he would provide you a litany of what is wrong with each and every one of them (particularly from an animal rights perspective): the Chinese - unspeakably cruel animal skinners; the Canadians - heartless seal-clubers; Americans - fat, greedy sub-intellectuals, etc, etc.

but to say those things is to be racist -

 

[King Leer]

The context is Morrissey. That doesn't make the statement "okay" -- he misspoke and painted with a brush that was too broad. But it's worlds apart than if it had come from a true racist. If you know a lot about the man, which I assume you do if you're here, then you know he's not a racist. He's a misanthrope with a special place reserved in hell for animal abusers, whatever race or country they're from.

tell me the context that makes the quote okay?

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

but to say those things is to be racist -

No. To call someone out on their actions is not racist. To suggest that they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race would be. It is possible to criticize other cultural or ethnic groups without being racist. The Chinese economy seems barbaric, to us, because it does not respect the life and health of humans or animals in the way that we purport to do. I do not believe that Chinese people are innately barbaric. See the difference? "Subspecies" was a very poor word choice.

I don't think I'm going very far out on a limb to say that Morrissey does not care what you and I think about it, though. He knows he's right on the level he meant to be.

 

[Worm]

No. To call someone out on their actions is not racist. To suggest that they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race would be. It is possible to criticize other cultural or ethnic groups without being racist. The Chinese economy seems barbaric, to us, because it does not respect the life and health of humans or animals in the way that we purport to do. I do not believe that Chinese people are innately barbaric. See the difference? "Subspecies" was a very poor word choice.

I don't think I'm going very far out on a limb to say that Morrissey does not care what you and I think about it, though. He knows he's right on the level he meant to be.

Not to worry! Said Morrissey, last year: "I abhor racism and oppression or cruelty of any kind. Racism is beyond common sense and has no place in our society". So it's okay! He's not racist. False alarm. We're fine now.

 

[smiler]

No. To call someone out on their actions is not racist. To suggest that they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race would be. It is possible to criticize other cultural or ethnic groups without being racist. The Chinese economy seems barbaric, to us, because it does not respect the life and health of humans or animals in the way that we purport to do. I do not believe that Chinese people are innately barbaric. See the difference? "Subspecies" was a very poor word choice.

"To suggest that they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race would be." - but that exactly what he did - he said "the Chinese". As you point out it is possible to criticize other cultural or ethnic groups without being racist - so why did he get it so wrong?

""Subspecies" was a very poor word choice." - Agreed and this is the heart of the matter, it is a deeply racist term - this is not a PC issue, to object when someone suggest that a certain race is subhuman (less evolved) is not Political Correctness gone mad it is the right thing to do.

Its difficult to suggest he just misspoke without feeling like an apologist - if he just misspoke then why didn't he say so in the clarification? - anyway its seems a bit daft "whooops did i just accidently call the Chinese a subspiecies?"

Saying Morrissey is the context does not mean anything or make it okay

 

[smiler]

Not to worry! Said Morrissey, last year: "I abhor racism and oppression or cruelty of any kind. Racism is beyond common sense and has no place in our society". So it's okay! He's not racist. False alarm. We're fine now.

Unfortunatley this quote isn't a get out of jail free card that last forever - life doesn't work like that

 

[DianaDors]

"To suggest that they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race would be." - but that exactly what he did - he said "the Chinese".

Er no... simply by referring the Chinese does NOT suggest they commit those actions because of some quality intrinsic to their race. Don't you know what "intrinsic" means?

 

[smiler]

a strangely balanced account of the issue here from "Naked News" lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoS4CZYZcJM

 

[DianaDors]

Unfortunatley this quote isn't a get out of jail free card that last forever - life doesn't work like that

Ok... so people have to keep reiterating their position all the way through life, do they? Just in case there have been some subtle shifts in nuance or opinion? "Get Out Of Jail Free card", my arse. Basically you're saying "even though someone says one thing, we should believe that s/he means something else and just uses the former statement to conceal their intentions"...? Seriously, can't you comprehend that this is arrant nonsense??

 

[DianaDors]

poetically "swimming in murky waters" is one thing - a racist remarks is another

and "Morrissey is the context." - means nothing



because the remark was racist

LMAO - there is no objective 'fact' here, simply your highly subjective opinion, so please stop tossing it around (off?) in that imperious and rather dreary manner, like you are the only enlightened one among us.

 

[Worm]

Unfortunatley this quote isn't a get out of jail free card that last forever - life doesn't work like that

I see. So in a year's time you'll look back on his "subspecies" quote and it will no longer be racist?