Morrissey Central "NEW GUITARIST" (April 13, 2023)


Carmen Vandenberg (below) will play guitars with Jesse Tobias in the new
line-up for Morrissey's forthcoming July concerts in Israel, Ireland and Britain.

full
 
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He did so after he left in 2005, as there were still AW-songs on Refusal.
I think there is a reasonable chance now too. He is Morrissey’s most prolific co-writer. More than 80 songs they wrote together.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know those songs on YOR had already been written before he was sent packing.
 
You and I feel very similar with this. I agree that the chance to have Alain's songs again, and a new LP being recorded so quickly after he rejoined the band --- it was just all trending in the best possible direction for a 'born-again Morrissey'. Unfortunately we're now back in the muck of uncertainty, and I am sorry that we are.

Jesse is a good player overall, it's not his fault we're in this situation. I do not have any problems with any opinions to the contrary, but I wanted to give Jesse some credit for keeping the Morrissey train moving for most of my adult years (because I assume they read some of this, and I wouldn't mind saying hello to people that I'm grateful for) :) If they don't read it, I still feel the same way.

He needs to fine-tune his effect boxes (also use them less altogether) and listen a little more. Besides that - he seems kind, loyal and professional. Playing in bands as an adult, unless it's a million-dollar-ticket, you only want to play with people you like/admire/respect. Obviously, Jesse and Morrissey are friends - and Morrissey respects his abilities. Isn't it close to twenty years with Jesse on-board now?
Yeah I like Jesse's songs he contributed to the menu and some of them are my faves but Alain had a better hit to miss ratio than Jesse. Seems as if I got all excited for nothing.
Oh well I'll never learn ;)
 
Except that Blossoms played The Smiths songs better than any band of Morrissey's ever have in all of the years he has been solo!
People disliking this clearly didn't see Rick Astley and Blossoms live. I never said Rick Astley's voice was as good as Morrissey's, but Blossoms' playing sounded just like Smiths records. It's no surprise they can play Smiths records better than any of Morrissey's solo bands - they're better, tighter musicians by a country mile - there's nothing wrong with admitting that lmao.
 
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Maybe Morrissey and Rick Astley should’ve toured together like a couple of proper old school crooners - backed by Blossoms looking like The Shadows. :LOL:
Honestly, Morrissey would do well to have a band as skilled as Blossoms. I can't say I'm a big fan of their own music, but Jesus wept those lads know how to play.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know those songs on YOR had already been written before he was sent packing.
Although he'd stopped appearing with the live band, Alain was still active as a song-writer up till Years of Refusal. According to numerous reports at the time (officially unconfirmed, but they certainly have the ring of truth about them), Alain wasn't aware he was completely done with Moz until he turned up to the Years of Refusal recording session expecting to be involved and perform (as he had on 'Ringleader'), only to find he was refused entry. Boz was dispatched as the hatchet man and sent to tell him in the carpark that his services were no longer needed by Morrissey, and that was the end of his involvement until last year.
 
Although he'd stopped appearing with the live band, Alain was still active as a song-writer up till Years of Refusal. According to numerous reports at the time (officially unconfirmed, but they certainly have the ring of truth about them), Alain wasn't aware he was completely done with Moz until he turned up to the Years of Refusal recording session expecting to be involved and perform (as he had on 'Ringleader'), only to find he was refused entry. Boz was dispatched as the hatchet man and sent to tell him in the carpark that his services were no longer needed by Morrissey, and that was the end of his involvement until last year.

Boz the hatchet man, just as Marr was before him, until he got sick of it. I see Alain's return as similar to Moz and Marr's rapprochement from 2008. It took Alain several months to understand what Marr saw in a few days: that Morrissey hadn't changed.
 
No one seems to be speculating that the addition of Carmen Vandenberg to Morrissey's band could be a real disaster. After listening to her play I think she is one the most inappropriate choices Moz and Jesse could pick. Unless she can repress her usual playing style she will drastically change the songs with her bluesy filigreed guitar noodling. Maybe she will be unexpectedly great, but on the surface it looks like a really incongruous choice. Even if she does successfully conform to the Morrissey style it will be highly unlikely that she will be happy enough to remain in the band for any length of time. This is time-delayed blowback from losing the irreplaceable BOZ as music director, and not Alain's departure!
 
Nobody love us (every single guitar of M band) except Alain and Boz
 
Boz the hatchet man, just as Marr was before him, until he got sick of it. I see Alain's return as similar to Moz and Marr's rapprochement from 2008. It took Alain several months to understand what Marr saw in a few days: that Morrissey hadn't changed.
And yet... in an interview, Alain said that Morrissey had changed for the better when he rejoined.
It makes me wonder what goes wrong when things start off so well - whether old patterns return or whether some people are just expecting something from M that he can't give. I can't imagine that it is easy to navigate a situation where someone is both your employee and your friend. How do you set boundaries? How do you avoid conflict at times when you need to 'be the boss'? If you don't keep in touch when they've left the band, were they really a friend?

I think the root of some of these issues is that those boundaries are not necessarily very clear. A musician might think that he has a certain 'status' in the Mozzerverse and then when he gets a reminder that he has to follow rules or that he could be replaced, it goes down badly. Alain is a great fan of Johnny and wanted to follow in his footsteps but really, the set-up and the balance of power is not the same. Morrissey does not see his solo collaborators as his equals.
 
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Why did you consider Mikey V. Farrell an odd fit? I've always ranked him fairly highly as a player when he was in the lineup.
I'm not saying that in estimation of his ability. As strange to some as it seems now, a keyboardist in the live band was still very fresh at the time - it was a bit jarring after years of the two guitars/bass/drums line-up in every Smiths/Morrissey solo band - the short-lived extra guitar of Craig Gannon notwithstanding. Also, since Deano was born in England, Farrell was the first American-by-birth in the band. "Th' Lads" would organically never be the same after that.
 
No one seems to be speculating that the addition of Carmen Vandenberg to Morrissey's band could be a real disaster. After listening to her play I think she is one the most inappropriate choices Moz and Jesse could pick. Unless she can repress her usual playing style she will drastically change the songs with her bluesy filigreed guitar noodling. Maybe she will be unexpectedly great, but on the surface it looks like a really incongruous choice. Even if she does successfully conform to the Morrissey style it will be highly unlikely that she will be happy enough to remain in the band for any length of time. This is time-delayed blowback from losing the irreplaceable BOZ as music director, and not Alain's departure!

nah. She seems skilled enough to play anything a Morrissey song can throw at her.




 
Alain is a great fan of Johnny and wanted to follow in his footsteps but really, the set-up and the balance of power is not the same. Morrissey does not see his solo collaborators as his equals.

To clarify, are you suggesting Alain "wanted to follow in [JM's] footsteps" in respect to his place in the Morrissey solo structure? The only person to ever suggest that was Morrissey himself in Autobiography and he's not exactly a reliable narrator. I don't believe Alain ever publicly made that claim and in the latter day "state of Morrissey" I can't imagine he ever believed that would be a possibility.
 
It's now virtually impossible to love Morrissey. He's so far removed from the wit, humour and panache he had as a solo artist circa 88-94. To allow Alain to depart is a monumental f*** up especially when Jesse is allowed to remain and continue to butcher sonically.

Morrissey needs to lighten up and appreciate the talent he's written with and mistakenly let go.

A band featuring Reilly, Street, Paresi, Alain and Gannon would have rivalled The Smiths.

And the keyboard player has been a step too far for some time now.
 
To clarify, are you suggesting Alain "wanted to follow in [JM's] footsteps" in respect to his place in the Morrissey solo structure? The only person to ever suggest that was Morrissey himself in Autobiography and he's not exactly a reliable narrator. I don't believe Alain ever publicly made that claim and in the latter day "state of Morrissey" I can't imagine he ever believed that would be a possibility.
I guess I am, yeah. Perhaps not in the way that M suggested, trying to "grab the crown" and wanting his face on album covers, etc. That sounded paranoid and over the top.

Certainly I think Alain wanted to be in the Johnny mould; he was a prolific songwriter who wanted to prove himself, there was a level of rivalry to get co-writes on the albums - and he must have nursed private ambition on some level because he then went solo.

I don't think he was in it to be treated as a lawnmower part, to say the least. And I can easily imagine that after being so integral for so long, he might have found some of the recent changes hard to take.
 
Boz the hatchet man, just as Marr was before him, until he got sick of it. I see Alain's return as similar to Moz and Marr's rapprochement from 2008. It took Alain several months to understand what Marr saw in a few days: that Morrissey hadn't changed.
You want Morrissey to change?
 
Let's face it - it's all been downhill since Dale Hibbert left.
Never been quite the same since James Maker got the elbow from his ‘spicy Bez’ role in The Smiths. Took the heat off Johnny Marr, allowing him to play the crucial guitar parts without having to dance and shake the maracas. :(
 
It's now virtually impossible to love Morrissey. He's so far removed from the wit, humour and panache he had as a solo artist circa 88-94. To allow Alain to depart is a monumental f*** up especially when Jesse is allowed to remain and continue to butcher sonically.

Morrissey needs to lighten up and appreciate the talent he's written with and mistakenly let go.

A band featuring Reilly, Street, Paresi, Alain and Gannon would have rivalled The Smiths.

And the keyboard player has been a step too far for some time now.
That's pretty much it, but you are a hater if you notice or say something. It's not near the quality it was before and Morrissey seems to have turned into a bitter old man.
 

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