Moz vs Smiths

Morrissey.

Better voice, better lyrics, better tunes.
 
Almost an impossible question to answer.

For me The two have merged nto one. Just one continuous line of work from then 'till now. Lots of changes and twists and turns along the way, but basically always Morrissey at the same time. Whoever he works with he is allways, somehow, able to make a Morrissey song.

I agree, for me I hear a continuity through the whole body of work. Maybe I have a different (unqualified?!) perspective because I’ve only heard all the albums in the past year so I haven’t been through the process of waiting for the albums and then having expectations met or dashed. I read a review somewhere that Strangeways was almost like the first solo Morrissey album in its style and I agree with that I think which also helps me bridge the gap between the two and they really don’t seem to far apart for me. They also give different things… maybe I relate more to the lyrics of the Smiths but then I get more joy out of listening to Vauxhall & I/ Quarry than any other album in my collection.

Just through the sheer volume of Morrissey material and the different styles he’s experimented with, that gives far more probability of there being some songs that don’t rate so highly. If it came to it, I’d rather just have my Moz collection I think, not that I ever want to choose!
 
Almost an impossible question to answer.



I agree, for me I hear a continuity through the whole body of work. Maybe I have a different (unqualified?!) perspective because I’ve only heard all the albums in the past year so I haven’t been through the process of waiting for the albums and then having expectations met or dashed. I read a review somewhere that Strangeways was almost like the first solo Morrissey album in its style and I agree with that I think which also helps me bridge the gap between the two and they really don’t seem to far apart for me. They also give different things… maybe I relate more to the lyrics of the Smiths but then I get more joy out of listening to Vauxhall & I/ Quarry than any other album in my collection.

Just through the sheer volume of Morrissey material and the different styles he’s experimented with, that gives far more probability of there being some songs that don’t rate so highly. If it came to it, I’d rather just have my Moz collection I think, not that I ever want to choose!

Your perspective is untainted by nostalgia.
 
Almost an impossible question to answer.



I agree, for me I hear a continuity through the whole body of work. Maybe I have a different (unqualified?!) perspective because I’ve only heard all the albums in the past year so I haven’t been through the process of waiting for the albums and then having expectations met or dashed. I read a review somewhere that Strangeways was almost like the first solo Morrissey album in its style and I agree with that I think which also helps me bridge the gap between the two and they really don’t seem to far apart for me. They also give different things… maybe I relate more to the lyrics of the Smiths but then I get more joy out of listening to Vauxhall & I/ Quarry than any other album in my collection.

Just through the sheer volume of Morrissey material and the different styles he’s experimented with, that gives far more probability of there being some songs that don’t rate so highly. If it came to it, I’d rather just have my Moz collection I think, not that I ever want to choose!

The Smiths never recorded "The Lazy Sunbathers" or "Lifeguard Asleep, Girl Drowning"...both of those get skipped when I play Vaxuall
 
My friend and I had a discussion about this and we decided that The Smiths don't really have any bad songs. I don't really skip over any tracks on thier cd's. With Morrissey there are a lot of songs I skip over. I'm so glad he's still recording and touring.
 
My friend and I had a discussion about this and we decided that The Smiths don't really have any bad songs. I don't really skip over any tracks on thier cd's. With Morrissey there are a lot of songs I skip over. I'm so glad he's still recording and touring.

Harsh Truth Of The Camera Eye still has its good lyrical points...

The whole...
There's No movement...No Movement....

It just goes on and on...

The Sun Burns through to the planet's core.....

I think Morrissey fell asleep writing both of those....I'd Love To And even Moon River are preferable
 
I think he fell asleep while writing quite a few songs but oh doesn't matter we love him anyway.
 
The Smiths never recorded "The Lazy Sunbathers" or "Lifeguard Asleep, Girl Drowning"...both of those get skipped when I play Vaxuall

Well, they're two of my favourite tracks!

Nothing appears to be between the ears of the lazy sunbathers,
Too jaded to question stagnation...


Now they're great lines surely. I do also just love the way he sings that though, combined with the gorgeous music.

It did occur to me that I think I enjoy Smiths music in a different way, each song can stand alone as a brilliant track but I think with Morrissey he has become more skilled in the craftsmanship of producing a body of work for an album that creates a certain mood or narrative which does include songs which perhaps were never meant to stand alone as singles. I often listen to the whole of Kill Uncle/ Vauxhall for example because it's like sinking into a different world for that short time and it all kind of fits. If that makes any sense...
 
Solo work and Smiths work are both brilliant in their own right and we should never bother trying to find a conclusive answer as to which is best because it's impossible!
 
No comparison at all in terms of quality, influence, impact or critical acclaim.

The Smiths (my favourite ever band) are generally accepted as one of the greatest bands of the last 30 years, and rightly so. Their legacy and influence on popular music is immeasurable - and crucially for them, they disbanded before they had the chance to produce anything sub-standard!

Morrissey was a major solo artist on the back of all that - he had great drive and plenty to say from 88-94, together with great collaborators both musically and behind the scenes. He produced all his killer solo stuff in this period, then.....a cult performer with the odd gem here and there for a decade, during which time I saw him 3 times, each time an absolutely awesome experience! Then for some reason - he came back!

YATQ was unneccessary in the scheme of things - told us nothing we didn't already know and brought us the excruciating FOTGTD! ROTT is just awful and although it's maybe unjust to trot out the "explosive kegs" thing, we all know (including him I suspect) that it's all over for Morrissey as a major artist - he simply doesn't "matter" any more.

No contest for me - it's not even a fair fight....
 
Take a look at the sheer number of Marr songs in the following top 20 (from Houdini's poll covering first 50 songs). When you consider that Marr wrote only a third of all the Morrissey-sung songs, you realise the sheer difference in quality between his compositions and that of subsequent songwriters. There really is no debate.


1) Everyday Is Like Sunday, rating: 9,66, Street
2) Bigmouth Strikes Again, rating: 9,38, Marr
3) Cemetry Gates, rating: 9,18, Marr
4) Asleep, rating: 9,04 Marr
5) First Of The Gang To Die, rating: 9,03 Whyte
6) Girlfriend In A Coma, rating: 8,97 Marr
7) A Rush And A Push And The Land Is Ours, rating: 8,96 Marr
8) Disappointed, rating: 8,88 Street
9) Frankly, Mr Shankly, rating: 8,58 Marr
10) Girl Afraid, rating: 8,56 Marr
11) Back To The Old House, rating: 8,47, Marr
12) Ask, rating: 8,46, Marr
13) Come Back To Camden, rating: 8,44, Boorer
14) Friday Mourning, rating: 8,33 Whyte
15) Alsatian Cousin, rating: 8,31 Street
16) Barbarism Begins At Home, rating: 8,27, Marr
17) Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together, rating: 8,21 Street
18) Boxers, rating: 8,18 Whyte
19) Ganglord, rating: 8,13 Whyte
20) Death Of A Disco Dancer, rating: 7,97 Marr
 
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I listen to Morrissey a lot and hardly listen to The Smiths. The Smiths made great classic records and the music is more accessible to the pop music fan, but I think there is a huge growth in the depth of the lyrics in the solo material. I also appreciate the variety of musicians he has worked with. I feel more strongly about his solo work. It's great hearing Smiths songs in concert, but most of my favorite Morrissey songs come form his solo work.

Also, I listened to The Smiths for a long time and there aren't that many records so maybe it just isn't as fresh and I cna't really be impartial. If I had discovered it all at the same time I might see it differently.
 
The Smiths were more consistent, but more one dimensional. ergo Morrissey less consistent, but more variety.

Currently I'd say Moz, just because I've been listening to Ringleader and Quarry at the expense of most of the back catalogue. However that may all change tomorrow.

But whatever your opinion, it's a win. You're comparing the greatest band of all time against the greatest lyrcist/singer/solo act of all time. Unless of course you really hate the Smiths, or really despise Moz, it's 20+ years of exceptional music.
 
I love both, but I think I listen to Morrissey's solo stuff more, especially with him still releasing new material. Its hard to say which is best, I guess the smiths are more critically acclaimed but that is in hindsight. I have to say I always look at it like this, that morrissey's solo stuff is the natural extension of the smiths, maybe it would have been different if he was still in the smiths but Strangeways was quite different from the other smiths albums, so who knows. Plus Morrissey did air some of his solo stuff with the rest of the smiths at wolverhampton so I guess thats the direction he was going with his songs. Another thing is, I know Jonny Marr wrote the music but I have always thought Morrissey had the most say in the band and what he would have wanted musically.

I always here the discussion that Moz solo work is not as good as the smiths but I always think, I wish people would take it for what it is. You can't stay stuck in the eighties and everyone moves one and develops differently. I like his new material just as much as viva hate and the Queen is dead. God! yes I look back with great fondness as smiths and Moz's early solo career but still enjoy what we have now!
 
YATQ was unneccessary in the scheme of things

I disagree. Everything he's done the last few three or four years has been vital to the bigger picture. Morrissey has always put himself completely into his music as the primary and obsessive subject of his art. Seeing how the man who wrote "Hand In Glove" has grown and changed over the years is amazing. In some ways the man he is now forces us to revise how we look back at The Smiths, in other ways he reinforces and validates the man he used to be. It's not so much that I would rank YATQ or ROTT as his best work, but they are essential-- everything he releases is essential and unified with the rest of his work. If you don't fully comprehend ROTT then you don't, in my opinion, fully comprehend "The Smiths".

I don't blame you or others for disliking the newer stuff because I know it comes down to taste. Either you like what you hear or you don't. But for me, personally, it's a great privilege to know what's going on in his mind and his heart in 2007. The beauty, the absolutely stunning beauty of Morrissey in 2007 is that he is a survivor. That comes through in every one of his newer songs. He's never been a victim, which is exactly what most of his detractors get wrong about his music. He's a tough son of a bitch and he's earned the right to let us know. The dominant theme of the last seven or eight years has been the song he used as an outro for his '99 tour, Sinatra's "My Way". I like that. Without YATQ and ROTT one might be left to wonder.
 
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I love both, but I think I listen to Morrissey's solo stuff more, especially with him still releasing new material. Its hard to say which is best, I guess the smiths are more critically acclaimed but that is in hindsight. I have to say I always look at it like this, that morrissey's solo stuff is the natural extension of the smiths, maybe it would have been different if he was still in the smiths but Strangeways was quite different from the other smiths albums, so who knows. Plus Morrissey did air some of his solo stuff with the rest of the smiths at wolverhampton so I guess thats the direction he was going with his songs. Another thing is, I know Jonny Marr wrote the music but I have always thought Morrissey had the most say in the band and what he would have wanted musically.

I always here the discussion that Moz solo work is not as good as the smiths but I always think, I wish people would take it for what it is. You can't stay stuck in the eighties and everyone moves one and develops differently. I like his new material just as much as viva hate and the Queen is dead. God! yes I look back with great fondness as smiths and Moz's early solo career but still enjoy what we have now!

Look at the results of Houdini's poll though, Pizza. We've all given 'First of the Gang' the thumbs up ranking it along side the very best of the Smiths songs (it's currently 5th out of 50).
So, when modern-day Moz does produce something fantastic, we're all willing to acknowledge it. Sadly though, large chunks of his solo/recent output is relatively mediocre (worth of 6 or 7 out of 10) whereas most of the Smiths songs were flipping great.
Still, as long as he continues to, albeit spradically, add the occasional fantastic song to his back catalogue, it's worth keeping the faith, so to speak!
 
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