Moz interviews Linder 'Interview' mag. March issue

Dear Elephant Man in da room.

I'm a sucker for people with a difficult physique.
Yes, I'd love to dance. :sweet: pm me honey.
 
Christine Cowshed is a victim. She eats her chips behind the art gallery because society hasn't offered more to someone of her station. Who is Linder Sterling to judge her? People like Linder (and often Morrissey) so rarely consider their privileges. They judge others as if they were given the same opportunities, rights, and privileges as they were, but choose to put on the mousy brown cardigan and eat chips behind the gallery instead of becoming pop stars or the best friends of pop stars instead. It's unfair and unthinking.



It's about your choice. I have never had alot of money but as all galleries/ museums are free, I will always go yet some people choose to go shopping/drink/telly instead, this is their good time. They are not challenging their intellect, learning new things, opening their eyes. It was nothing to do with their station as Morrissey, Linder as many, many other creative people are working class.
 
It's about your choice. I have never had alot of money but as all galleries/ museums are free, I will always go yet some people choose to go shopping/drink/telly instead, this is their good time. They are not challenging their intellect, learning new things, opening their eyes. It was nothing to do with their station as Morrissey, Linder as many, many other creative people are working class.

:clap:

Very well said!
 
Exactly, Lainey. Morrissey and Linder are two artists, critical of those who don't appreciate their art. This is somehow wrong or surprising? Ordinary is an incurious state of mind, satisfied with nothing more than a greasy bag of chips, a double bed, and a stalwart lover. Morrissey has sung and talked about this over and over and over. Do you listen to the lyrics? The imaginary Christine Cowshed could be wealthy or dirt poor, but it doesn't change who she is or the fact that she's indifferent to anything besides whatever is contained in her little comfortable world. There are people like this everywhere, and I'll bet everyone expressing poutrage over the pretentiousness of this interview probably dreads being stuck in a room with their relative or co-worker who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery. They have no real passion for anything. These people aren't inferior but they are uninteresting.
 
Last edited:
Exactly. Morrissey and Linder are two artists, critical of those who don't appreciate their art. This is somehow wrong or surprising? Ordinary is an incurious state of mind, satisfied with nothing more than a greasy bag of chips, a double bed, and a stalwart lover. Morrissey has sung and talked about this over and over and over. Do you listen to the lyrics? The imaginary Christine Cowshed could be wealthy or dirt poor, but it doesn't change who she is or the fact that she's indifferent to anything besides whatever is contained in her little comfortable world. There are people like this everywhere, and I'll bet everyone expressing poutrage over the pretentiousness of this interview probably dreads being stuck in a room with their relative or co-worker who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery. These people aren't inferior but they are uninteresting.

I never said Morrissey and Linder had to be ordinary, or that the quest to escape the mundane is a bad thing. More people try to do it than you think. My point was that Linder's way of expressing herself is affected, haughty and insincere. Morrissey has much the same views as her, and manages to express himself without sounding like he's lost touch with the real world. Linder is desperately trying to impress, with a very contrived form of 'individuality', and it shows.
 
It's unavoidable really. Moz is an intriguing character in his own right; but even at his most arrogant and affected, he still kept in touch with reality and voiced valid points - on vegetarianism, art, pop culture, anything.

Linder sounds like a very ordinary woman trying desperately to be 'unique' and escape the mundanity of normal life (which is no bad thing), but she does it in such a way as to think herself above not just 'Christine Cowshed' but everybody. The Q & A was basically him telling her how wonderful she is, and her agreeing & presenting a few illustrative thoughts and ideas. Her whole demeanor seems painfully insincere. And quoting Moz' own lyrics back at him? :sick:
Agreed. I stopped reading after a while.
 
As pretentious as the interview was I still enjoyed it -- how many people would go as far as Linder to articulate something in that way? Painfully affected as it is...

The strange thing is, in the short verbal interviews I've seen of her in various Smiths/Moz documentaries and whatever, she is very articulate but she doesn't sound pretentious at all.

I think she felt under pressure with the written Q & A, to project a particular persona based on Morrissey's (and the public's) perception of her art and work. The insincerity, and to some extent the hypocrisy, is what I just can't stand about the Q & A and that sort of elitist attitude is general. For all her claims to a special and superior kind of artistry far above the comprehension of the 'Christine Cowsheds', Linder still has to live something of a normal life, and I would bet she shops in supermarkets and does her own laundry and plenty of other things that the 'Christine Cowsheds' also have to do. She aspires to an ideal of ultimate individuality that is impossible to fulfil, then judges others for not meeting the same standards. She is a hypocrite.
 
I never said Morrissey and Linder had to be ordinary, or that the quest to escape the mundane is a bad thing. More people try to do it than you think. My point was that Linder's way of expressing herself is affected, haughty and insincere. Morrissey has much the same views as her, and manages to express himself without sounding like he's lost touch with the real world. Linder is desperately trying to impress, with a very contrived form of 'individuality', and it shows.

I agree that it's pretentious. I think it's pretentious of ME to say that other people are boring, but I still get what Morrissey and Linder were saying and agree. If you roll your eyes at the two of them trying to impress each other and read past it, she has some interesting things to say. I would love to hear more about this opressive fear in 1960s Manchester, and the visual image of windows which can't be cleaned.
 
I think Linder means to be affected. That's the whole point of this "conversation". It's meant to be an artwork in itself. I doubt Morrrissey and Linder converse like this in normal life.
 
I think Linder means to be affected. That's the whole point of this "conversation". It's meant to be an artwork in itself. I doubt Morrrissey and Linder converse like this in normal life.

Not only that, but I understand Linder is in a long term relationship which seems to be fairly conventional and Morrissey sleeps late and watches soap operas. They manage to express themselves through art at the same time as doing fairly commonplace things. This conversation was either art or flirtation or maybe both.
 
There are people like this everywhere, and I'll bet everyone expressing poutrage over the pretentiousness of this interview probably dreads being stuck in a room with their relative or co-worker who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery. They have no real passion for anything. These people aren't inferior but they are uninteresting.

This is one of those glorious instances when a typo speaks a greater truth than the word it was meant to be!

I don't think they were being pretentious, I think they are completely sincere.

I think many of us here feel very different from others in our lives. I'm not claiming to be a great artist, but I do dread being stuck in a room with people "who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery." And DisneyWorld. Don't forget DisneyWorld. I watch people like that, stunned that their lives, which seem so colorless to me, are satisfying to them, while I envy that satisfaction. And the reactions of people like... I presume to say "us," is inevitably going to sound defensive and somewhat pretentious, at least until someone figures out the right words to explain the difference between the Cowsheds and the Linders.
 
This is one of those glorious instances when a typo speaks a greater truth than the word it was meant to be!

I don't think they were being pretentious, I think they are completely sincere.

I think many of us here feel very different from others in our lives. I'm not claiming to be a great artist, but I do dread being stuck in a room with people "who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery." And DisneyWorld. Don't forget DisneyWorld. I watch people like that, stunned that their lives, which seem so colorless to me, are satisfying to them, while I envy that satisfaction. And the reactions of people like... I presume to say "us," is inevitably going to sound defensive and somewhat pretentious, at least until someone figures out the right words to explain the difference between the Cowsheds and the Linders.

I like art galleries, libraries, opera houses, concert halls, chips AND Disney World. :thumb:


I guess that makes me a Cowder. Or a Linshed.

I'm also not averse to a spot of poutraging.
 
Last edited:
I like art galleries, libraries, opera houses, concert halls, chips AND Disneyworld. :thumb:


I guess that makes me a Cowder. Or a Linshed.

I'm also not averse to a spot of poutraging.

I will confess. I went to Disneyworld with my husband and two little boys a few years ago. We had an excellent time. But we were there for ONE day, not seven to ten. And we went there ONCE, not twice a year, every year, as our only vacation.

And I love chips/fries. They're my drunk food. :D

I even watched two seasons of American Idol. So I could converse with my momfriends. :o
 
I will confess. I went to Disneyworld with my husband and two little boys a few years ago. We had an excellent time. But we were there for ONE day, not seven to ten. And we went there ONCE, not twice a year, every year, as our only vacation.

And I love chips/fries. They're my drunk food. :D

I even watched two seasons of American Idol. So I could converse with my momfriends. :o

Disney World;check.

Chips/fries, drunk or sober;check

No can do American Idol or it's transatlantic equivalents, I'd dump my friends first. :lbf:
 
This is one of those glorious instances when a typo speaks a greater truth than the word it was meant to be!

I don't think they were being pretentious, I think they are completely sincere.

I think many of us here feel very different from others in our lives. I'm not claiming to be a great artist, but I do dread being stuck in a room with people "who can't talk about anything besides the mundane minutiae of their kids' activites, American Idol, and who has never voluntarily set foot in a library or art gallery." And DisneyWorld. Don't forget DisneyWorld. I watch people like that, stunned that their lives, which seem so colorless to me, are satisfying to them, while I envy that satisfaction. And the reactions of people like... I presume to say "us," is inevitably going to sound defensive and somewhat pretentious, at least until someone figures out the right words to explain the difference between the Cowsheds and the Linders.

It's like the Rorschach test - who are your "Cowsheds" of the world?

Mine are those who steadfastly refuse to live up to their potential. And I'll admit to feeling guilty of this. It's so much easier to stare at the bag of chips and ignore any creative force within than it is to be brave and get out there and do whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. That's hard. It takes work, focus and sacrifice. And nerves of steel. My "Cowsheds" are those who always take the easy way and sponge off others...who take and yet never, ever give. They consistently destroy, but never create.

Also, Morrissey has always championed the underdog, the underprivileged, the less-than-beautiful, the sick, the forgotten and the disenfranchised. I don't think those are the people he and Linder and talking about here.
 
Back
Top Bottom